ThunderPeel

Nitpicker's Corner

103 posts in this topic

i watched the footage streamed by gog on twitch, and i found some stuff that needs a fix:

1- ben's fingers are still behind the throttle grip.

2- layer bugs on todd's house scene and when entering (and i found that the scene was bugged too in the original game)

3- the clouds in the night area arent moving like the original.

Untitled-5.jpg

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Posted (edited)

Good job, Gosova. No idea what's going on with the new look of the backgrounds... I thought Matt said they were going to be changed to match the look of the original? I guess that part is still to do.

I believe this is the video?

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/129318761

Edit: Just watching it now, it looks like they took Ben's Protocola suggestion on board! Nice. Also the bike looks fantastic now (no longer brown hued). Really nice!

Quite a few graphical glitches still visible. The shadow under Ben disappears when he's under the gas tower, for example. I assume they're aware of this stuff.

Edited by ThunderPeel

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1 hour ago, ThunderPeel said:

Edit: Just watching it now, it looks like they took Ben's Protocola suggestion on board!

Oh hey, yeah! Awesome!

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Posted (edited)

some stuff that can get a fix. what do you guys think?

in the first picture: i think the gas can needs a clear redraw instead of just removing the pixels, cuz it feels kinda vectorized.

in the second picture: the shadow is kinda...doesnt match?

in the third picture: the machine's light is looking like a 3d object?
 

Untitled-1.jpg

Untitled-3.jpg

Untitled-4.jpg

 

EDIT: and how about a clear version of the mink ranch's picture instead of blurry one?
8xpr86j5.jpg.8f66f2f183ee98b04bef96996a48a57b.jpg

Edited by Gosova

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Posted (edited)

Good catches. I think Ben's shadow is all over the place, so I hope they'll spend some time getting that right before release.

I don't get what's going on with those beams of light... things should be brighter where they hit, not darker! They generally look very odd at the moment, but hopefully it wouldn't take much to fix and make look more natural.

I agree about the oil can and I also think they should change the colour of the hose... so it finally sticks out from the background and stops being a pixel hunting puzzle!

I don't agree about the photo, though. It looks far too sharp for the surrounding artwork in your version. Maybe it should be slightly less blurry, but not so sharp as that, IMHO.

I'd also like to see:

  • A more interesting font (looks like Arial at the moment -- horribly clashing with the game world)
  • Losing the big black box behind the dialogue options
Edited by ThunderPeel

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This is an unfair comparison because it's not taken from a video, but it's still worth having a look at LuisImage's fan art:

FT08_zps82ab635b.png

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Posted (edited)

i also forgot to mention ben's bike glass, it looks great on luisImage's fan art, while it look like a big piece of ASPIRIN in the remastered version! (maybe maureen want it like this)

also the bottom part on the front is just black in the remastered version where maureen is fixing it.

 

full-throttle-remastered-010---the-open-road-new-1480713830738.jpg

 

Untitled2.jpg

Edited by Gosova

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Posted (edited)

22 hours ago, Gosova said:

Untitled-4.jpg

Those "beams of light" looks absolutely terrible, they don't even look like light! I guess they already know about something so noticeable as this and they'll fix it.

Great job to everybody in this thread btw, you guys notice the most small details!

Edited by Malleys

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there is also a glitch appears in the footage as shown below:

the final frame in the scene is pixelated :)

Untitled-1.jpg

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Posted (edited)

Nice spot, Gosova!

Also, I spent all of two minutes on this... (it's far from perfect, but it illustrates the difference I think)

ft2.jpg

Edited by ThunderPeel

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Posted (edited)

It still looks pretty bad, I hope they make it as bright as the image Gosova posted :( 

Edited by Malleys

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I've just spent about an hour and a half playing this game and I can safely say that so far... it's a mixed bag.

First, the good news when it comes to observations in this thread. The police hovercraft lights are fixed and are a lot brighter than they were in that video. Now let's talk about the nitpicky stuff!

Missing Animation in Backgrounds 

This is a big nitpick for me because I LOVED the how the backgrounds were animated in the original. Clouds especially. They had a flowing movement to them but still remained the same shape since they couldn't fully animate a whole skyline. That is all but gone in the remastered version. Everything is just a still image. 

And it's not just the clouds either. The middle section of the Cavefish hideout now lacks the water effects on the far right. I was really hoping the remastered version would fix the visual continuity when the water effects disappeared when the cavefish fly off the road. Sadly, they did the opposite by getting rid of the drops all together. 

Another missing detail that worked great in the original that's all but missing in the remastered version is the glowing Torch effect from Todd's home in the longshot of Mellonweed. In the original, the grate looking down into his basement is flickering in and out constantly, giving the player a clear indication of where they should go first. In the remastered version, the grate does glow, but it no longer flickers. If you weren't paying attention to that one general area, you could easily miss that visual cue since it's always a constant.

The last missing piece that I'm sure a lot of players don't even notice on their playthroughs is the lightning in the cloud visual when Ben approaches the Vultures' hideout for the first time. The big red cloud behind the Vulture's Hideout actually lights up for a couple of frame where the sound of thunder is immediately followed when Ben is standing in front of the minefield. As usual, the lightning is gone in the remastered version but the sound of thunder still occurs. 

Animated Elements Entering/Exiting Frame

This one is a bit more unfortunate because it deals with the limitations the game had at the time. On the remastered version, the screen resolution is expanded to provide more picture and more picture was added to the artwork to fill the screen. The downside is that a lot of non-background elements that enter and exit the screen (Ben riding his bike out, the Police Hovercraft approaching/leaving the gas tower, the gift shop salesman) only appear in the portions they were supposed to appear in the original. It makes these characters look like they're teleporting into the frame rather than entering it. My best guess as to why this is an issue is because they wanted to present the original release of the game in 'real time' and adding more animation to the characters would have thrown those sequences out of sync. Now if the remastered version was it's own stand alone thing that didn't have to depend on switching between old-style and remastered game play, I bet this problem would have been mitigated. 

Audio Cut Out

This happens a LOT in the game. Whenever the game transitions to a black screen, the music will stop. One example occurs after Ben gets his bike fixed and heads out to meet up with his gang. The track 'Born Bad' plays out and doesn't stop until Ben stops in the middle of the road to observe the police hovercrafts on the look out for him. In the remastered version, Born Bad is abruptly cut off when it cuts to the shot of Ben stopping his bike. And this sort of thing happens all the time, especially in sequences when building your way to jumping the gorge. 

Two-By-Four Glitch

After getting the two-by-four and approaching the Cavefish to knock him out, the two-by-four does not show up when Ben switches to it. Instead, Ben is holding the spiked skull instead. Thankfully it still acts like the two-by-four when you hit the Cavefish as he's looking up, but it's odd that this clearly essential visual cue didn't work. 

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I was gonna say 'good' list, but, well, not good!

We're tracking a bunch of these in our DB. Some are polish fixes that may not make it into future updates, but any bugs--especially functional bugs--are being investigated and addressed. We'll keep track for patch notes.

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Posted (edited)

Probably a known issue: I noticed during a feature with Tim I watched yesterday the z-index on the trailer door is a bit off, causing Ben to clip through at times.

 

Edited by cavefish

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Great list Jeyl, as you have said the backgrounds lack all the subtle animations they had and now the scenarios looks way more static, It's sad since I don't think is one of the priorities for the patches, but I hope they can add those little animations some day.

The audio cuts are also very noticeable, another example besides what you have said: the guitar that sounds when Ripburger and the goons are waiting in the car outside of the bar, It stops so abruptly!! The sound can't even finish.

I'm about to get into the truck, luckily I haven't seen game-breaking bugs yet.

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Discovered a minor oversight in the intro. In the newly added spaces, Ben is missing his cigar!

 

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Posted (edited)

Just completed the game! Fantastic work, guys! Think this might be the best remaster yet!

To be completely honest, I didn't play Full Throttle in my teenage years as much as I did some of the other LucasArts games, so my memories of it aren't as strong or cemented into my brain as DoTT was. Therefore, I was able to look at the game more on its' own terms. And it's a great game! Feels very… Fury Road actually.

 

Since it's Nitpickers Corner, a couple of nitpicks/comments I noticed:

- The cutting to black screens in between the closeups took me out of the moment sometimes. I noticed this less in DoTT because there were less closeups, but here it kind of distracts from the pacing when we have to see a black screen between each shot.

- The clouds don't move in the remastered version! Seems strange that this feature only exists in classic mode.

- Music looping didn't seem to be on! Particularly early on in the game, the music in the bar/Maureen's house would stop after playing and not loop.

- KUDOS on recreating the 3D scenes from scratch! (?) These look wonderful in Remastered mode!

- The controller shaking during the bike action scenes was a very nice addition. (I played the PS4 version.)

- One time when I got knocked off my bike by a Cavefish after the shot of Ben on the group, my game froze on a black screen and I had to reload an earlier save point.

- I got stuck in a walkable area on the "exploding ground." I walked upwards and to the left (about 2/3 down from the top of the screen) and couldn't walk Ben away from the area, nor double click away from the screen.

- The animation on the projectionist woman was great! Comparing it to Classic Mode, I really liked the way she was designed and animated here. Weird point to focus on, I know ( :P ) but she seemed to stand out somehow.

- I had to turn on subtitles during the chase scene at the end (when Ben was on the back of Rip's truck) as Ben's voice got drowned in the mix far too much. Can't remember if this was an issue in the original game too, but I wouldn't have minded seeing that fixed.

- Also, was it my imagination or was the closeup of the "Can't Beat A Corley" image that Ripburger grips at the end redrawn into something else? I remember being able to read "Can't Beat A Corley" clearer before. Maybe I imagined this one, though!

- Is "In Memory of Roy Conrad" in the credits new to this release? That was a nice touch. Might've been good to mention Hamilton Camp as well, who passed away in recent years too.

Overall, very very well done, guys! I REALLY hope this remaster isn't the last one. It occurred to me upon finishing the game that this may be the last LucasArts remaster we ever get. Here's hoping you guys get the chance to remaster Curse of Monkey Island!

Edited by WendellFinkwinkle

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Posted (edited)

Yeah, the cutoff music in some scenes is annoying. I hope it can be fixed somehow.
Anyway, here are some visual glitches.

In the intro, one of the bikers seems to float over ground (which is ironic, considering the plot). :-P

floating_guy.jpg

There's something wrong in Nestor's neck when the bad guys are outside the Kickstand, waiting for Malcolm to come out.

imperfect_neck.jpg

In the intro scene, Malcolm', Adrian' and thugs' shots show strange underlying "stripes"... I don't know how to define them.

mysterious_stripes_01.jpg

mysterious_stripes_02.jpg

Edited by Diduz

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Posted (edited)

Regarding the missing background animations, I can't picture them offhand so I can't say for sure but what are the chances those are 8-bit palette cycling effects? That would make it a little more difficult to replicate in a modern day remaster.

Edited by MusicallyInspired

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i have a long list of nitpicks. but i am not gonna dig for them again, i will just cut it into 2 major problems:

- layering problems, i found like 4

- some places still feel pixelated and some specific spots

and i am not gonna argue here about the controls and random stutters and not gonna mention stuff we mentioned before, like: shade bug under the tower, beams of light...etc

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1 hour ago, MusicallyInspired said:

Regarding the missing background animations, I can't picture them offhand so I can't say for sure but what are the chances those are 8-bit palette cycling effects? That would make it a little more difficult to replicate in a modern day remaster.

Yeah I just started up in ScummVM, and that's exactly what it is. They put in a few rows that rotate using palette cycling e.g. in the clouds, giving a vague feeling of movement without the clouds ever shifting. No way to do that in higher res -- they'd have to actually animate the clouds.

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Posted (edited)

I wish someone would come up with a 21st century solution to mimic that effect...it's interesting that we never ran into this issue with DOTT. I guess there are no palette cycling effects in DOTT are there?

Edited by MusicallyInspired

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Posted (edited)

Animating the clouds would not be very difficult if the layers of the clouds are masked properly. Braid is full of cloud loops that use a similar technique.

 

Edited by cavefish

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Posted (edited)

This light looks especially bad.

I know folks worked hard on this game and there's a lot of really good art here; However, a lot of the backgrounds are unfinished or far too soft compared to the character sprites. It's probably too late and too expensive to improve the art now, but I would honestly be willing to go over each background that needs more detail for free if Double Fine would let me.

wtf-light.jpg

Edited by cavefish

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6 hours ago, MusicallyInspired said:

I wish someone would come up with a 21st century solution to mimic that effect...it's interesting that we never ran into this issue with DOTT. I guess there are no palette cycling effects in DOTT are there?

Yeah, there was a palette-cycling effect in the original DOTT, in the shot where the future Edisons are scared by the skunk. The effect was removed in DOTT RE, but the shot itself was SO fast that almost no one noticed.

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11 hours ago, MusicallyInspired said:

I wish someone would come up with a 21st century solution to mimic that effect...it's interesting that we never ran into this issue with DOTT. I guess there are no palette cycling effects in DOTT are there?

Pretty sure the opening time tunnel effect is a palette rotation. Or at least, I always thought it was.

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Posted (edited)

8 hours ago, cavefish said:

This light looks especially bad.

I know folks worked hard on this game and there's a lot of really good art here; However, a lot of the backgrounds are unfinished or far too soft compared to the character sprites. It's probably too late and too expensive to improve the art now, but I would honestly be willing to go over each background that needs more detail for free if Double Fine would let me.

wtf-light.jpg

Wow. That does indeed look unfinished. I wonder what DF think of that? :-/ (I kind of wish DF hadn't used the term "Criterion Edition" when I see things like that. Still, it's not "Golo Flakes".)

Anyhoo, maybe you could do a test for just that light and share it with the forum. It won't be long before someone has made a tool for us to open up the files I make changes. We could always release our own update if DF aren't able to.

Edited by ThunderPeel

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Posted (edited)

10 hours ago, cavefish said:

This light looks especially bad.

I know folks worked hard on this game and there's a lot of really good art here; However, a lot of the backgrounds are unfinished or far too soft compared to the character sprites. It's probably too late and too expensive to improve the art now, but I would honestly be willing to go over each background that needs more detail for free if Double Fine would let me.

wtf-light.jpg

speaking of which, how about this light's direction??!
its clearly wrong, cuz he is supposed to be hiding there!

and it isnt like that in the original. i assume its a layering bug, and it is supposed to go on the opposite side of the wall.

if it isnt a layering bug then its blindness O.o

doh.jpg

Edited by Gosova

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6 minutes ago, Gosova said:

speaking of which, how about this light's direction??!
its clearly wrong, cuz he is supposed to be hiding there!

and it isnt like that in the original. i assume its a layering bug, and it is supposed to go on the opposite side of the wall.

doh.jpg

Hah! Nice find. Yes, I HOPE that's a layering bug as it defies all logic considering the puzzle.

I'm not sure if it was tight deadlines, lack of budget or what, but it seems like this remaster has far more problems than the ones before it. What's strange to me is that cutscenes seem to suffer far fewer problems than static backgrounds. I would really like to help with this as I know I can contribute a great deal of work with no cost to them, but they aren't wanting to bite despite writing them over the past several months. It's frustrating. I'm tempted to do a few examples of how the backgrounds could be improved if I can figure out how to extract the original backgrounds from the game package files, which I'm sure is possible. However, I'm not sure how compressed the game files are from the originals and don't want to spend too much time if Double Fine isn't interested in letting me help.

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2 hours ago, ThunderPeel said:

Wow. That does indeed look unfinished. I wonder what DF think of that? :-/ (I kind of wish DF hadn't used the term "Criterion Edition" when I see things like that. Still, it's not "Golo Flakes".)

Anyhoo, maybe you could do a test for just that light and share it with the forum. It won't be long before someone has made a tool for us to open up the files I make changes. We could always release our own update if DF aren't able to.

This is a great suggestion, thank you. I'm sorry I didn't read this before mentioning something similar in my previous response. Since there seems to be demand, I'll see if I can extract some of the backgrounds from the game this afternoon and do a couple art tests this week. What backgrounds would you like to see updated? You're right, we can at least get a community thing going here.

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