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Never really heard of her.

I loooove Rush so much, I havn't really listened to that much of their stuff yet, my favorite album I've heard so far is 2112, Moving Pictures isn't bad but I prefer 2112 more progressive rock style.

Also I actually don't mind Muse, Black Holes and Revelations is a pretty awesome album, Resistance is crap though.

I feel old.

She's only from the 90's though!

Exactly, and for awhile she was the biggest thing around. So the fact that you haven't heard of her is like, well I'm not comparing talents here but it's a bit like Growing up in the 80's and being all: "Beatles Who?" Actually nobody will ever be as popular as the Beatles. I take it back.

Well it's not that the 90's are too old for me... more their too, not old, for me.

You're missing out, the 90's had some great music.

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Never really heard of her.

I loooove Rush so much, I havn't really listened to that much of their stuff yet, my favorite album I've heard so far is 2112, Moving Pictures isn't bad but I prefer 2112 more progressive rock style.

Also I actually don't mind Muse, Black Holes and Revelations is a pretty awesome album, Resistance is crap though.

I feel old.

She's only from the 90's though!

Exactly, and for awhile she was the biggest thing around. So the fact that you haven't heard of her is like, well I'm not comparing talents here but it's a bit like Growing up in the 80's and being all: "Beatles Who?" Actually nobody will ever be as popular as the Beatles. I take it back.

Well it's not that the 90's are too old for me... more their too, not old, for me.

You're missing out, the 90's had some great music.

I agree, Blind Guardian is a prime example of 90's awesomeness.

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I love 90's music... especially grunge (yes Seniormeld, we all know you despise grunge because its too fucking simple.)

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I love 90's music... especially grunge (yes Seniormeld, we all know you despise grunge because its too fucking simple.)

So is Ode to Joy and all of John William's scores. I mean if you can hum it right? I personally think simplistic music is evidence of craftsmanship.

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I love 90's music... especially grunge (yes Seniormeld, we all know you despise grunge because its too fucking simple.)

I don't despise grunge cause its simple, I despise it because it all sounds very uninspired and takes almost as little effort as pop to write.

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So who likes Alanis Morissete? I think i spelled her name wrong =S

I. HATE. HER. Can't respect anybody who writes a song called "Isn't It Ironic" which is devoid of irony. Unless the Irony is the fact that a song called Isn't It Ironic is irony free.

Also I can't stand her voice.

:o Ironic is her best song EVARR I listen to it when im in a gloomy or sad mood ._.

It also completely misses the point. Seriously would it have killed her to look irony up in a dictionary before writing the song? Irony is something that means the opposite of its statement. All sarcasm is ironic, her song is not.

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So who likes Alanis Morissete? I think i spelled her name wrong =S

I. HATE. HER. Can't respect anybody who writes a song called "Isn't It Ironic" which is devoid of irony. Unless the Irony is the fact that a song called Isn't It Ironic is irony free.

Also I can't stand her voice.

:o Ironic is her best song EVARR I listen to it when im in a gloomy or sad mood ._.

It also completely misses the point. Seriously would it have killed her to look irony up in a dictionary before writing the song? Irony is something that means the opposite of its statement. All sarcasm is ironic, her song is not.

She wrote the song but she didnt even know what ironic meant (nor do i)and that's why its ironic that she wrote a song called Ironic when she didnt even what it meant.......I just confused myself lol

Its not ironic, its dumb.

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I love 90's music... especially grunge (yes Seniormeld, we all know you despise grunge because its too fucking simple.)

I don't despise grunge cause its simple, I despise it because it all sounds very uninspired and takes almost as little effort as pop to write.

I can't say that grunge seems easy to write. There's some Nirvana stuff that's simple and easy to play, but it leaves me thinking about how much emotion Kurt Cobain could put in six chords. There's some metal stuff that's more musically complex and harder to play that leaves me thinking how dull it is emotionally. But whatever, artistic integrity is entirely opinion-based and is pointless to argue about.

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Emotional playing is useless if you only convey one emotion with every piece of music you make. Also I find nothing emotional motivated in grunge, but that's just me.

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I can tell you have not listened to much grunge at all. It's ambiguously defined enough that your reaction cannot apply to all of it. At its core, grunge is based on

sound. I would say the most 'true' grunge sound would be along these lines. The key to understanding grunge, in my mind, really is Nirvana. I don't say that lightly, either. There's no question that they were at the center of it. They worked off of the Melvins' sound to shape grunge into a force of its own and then, as they applied other influences (especially, the Pixies), they transformed it into what we know as grunge today (the "Smells Like Teen Spirit" sort of sound). Therefore, grunge can sound like
or
or
.

Grunge, like any other genre, though, still displays a large range of emotions. While angst is certainly there, I think that it more often illustrates the emotions that make it up. There's a lot of raw anger, fatigue, depression and there's also a hugely cathartic and rebellious side. Thanks to the transformations it underwent, there's a very calm and light side to it in opposition to the original, raw and heavy sound. These are just basics, of course. I haven't looked too deeply into grunge, yet.

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I can tell you have not listened to much grunge at all. It's ambiguously defined enough that your reaction cannot apply to all of it. At its core, grunge is based on
sound. I would say the most 'true' grunge sound would be along these lines. The key to understanding grunge, in my mind, really is Nirvana. I don't say that lightly, either. There's no question that they were at the center of it. They worked off of the Melvins' sound to shape grunge into a force of its own and then, as they applied other influences (especially, the Pixies), they transformed it into what we know as grunge today (the "Smells Like Teen Spirit" sort of sound). Therefore, grunge can sound like
or
or
.

Grunge, like any other genre, though, still displays a large range of emotions. While angst is certainly there, I think that it more often illustrates the emotions that make it up. There's a lot of raw anger, fatigue, depression and there's also a hugely cathartic and rebellious side. Thanks to the transformations it underwent, there's a very calm and light side to it in opposition to the original, raw and heavy sound. These are just basics, of course. I haven't looked too deeply into grunge, yet.

I have listened to enough grunge to basically form this opinion: it takes lots of elements from from punk, tunes down the aggression and adds some hard rock and gothic elements to it. In taking out the aggression from punk, they take out the only part of punk that I thought gave punk any merit at all. The way I see it in musical terms punk was born out of people thinking that the rock genre had become too overambitious and too over the top musically, coupled with people being genuinely pissed off at the politics at the time. And grunge was somewhat that same kind of retaliation, only towards the metal and hard rock side (I think mostly because the the 80s hair metal fiasco) the only problem was that there was no real aggression, and no real intensity in the songs themselves (the intensity is solely in the interpretations of the songs, which is terrible from a musical standpoint but understandable in an artistic way).

Think about it this way, there might be aggression in grunge, but that aspect is trumped by multiple genres (early punk, thrash metal, death metal, black metal)

There is rebellion which is trumped by early punk and even early rappers

There is the depression side which is better done through doom metal and the blues

My main point is that grunge tries to outdo what was already done, but lacks the inspiration to achieve anything more than second best at pretty much everything.

I mean, there are some genres I hate too much to stand (like rap/hip-hop, black metal or punk) but I can understand what they try and change in the old formulas to keep things fresh, and feel they actually achieve it.

And other genres I hate that I see no point in, and don't achieve anything other than rehashing old ideas in not very successful ways.

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I didn't know you disliked black metal. What about Wolves in the Throne Room or Burzum? Some of it strikes me as something that would be right up your alley.

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I actually love symphonic/atmospheric black metal. But there are some cliches in black metal I don't really like.

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I have listened to enough grunge to basically form this opinion: it takes lots of elements from from punk, tunes down the aggression and adds some hard rock and gothic elements to it. In taking out the aggression from punk, they take out the only part of punk that I thought gave punk any merit at all. The way I see it in musical terms punk was born out of people thinking that the rock genre had become too overambitious and too over the top musically, coupled with people being genuinely pissed off at the politics at the time. And grunge was somewhat that same kind of retaliation, only towards the metal and hard rock side (I think mostly because the the 80s hair metal fiasco) the only problem was that there was no real aggression, and no real intensity in the songs themselves (the intensity is solely in the interpretations of the songs, which is terrible from a musical standpoint but understandable in an artistic way).

Think about it this way, there might be aggression in grunge, but that aspect is trumped by multiple genres (early punk, thrash metal, death metal, black metal)

There is rebellion which is trumped by early punk and even early rappers

There is the depression side which is better done through doom metal and the blues

My main point is that grunge tries to outdo what was already done, but lacks the inspiration to achieve anything more than second best at pretty much everything.

I mean, there are some genres I hate too much to stand (like rap/hip-hop, black metal or punk) but I can understand what they try and change in the old formulas to keep things fresh, and feel they actually achieve it.

And other genres I hate that I see no point in, and don't achieve anything other than rehashing old ideas in not very successful ways.

Seniormeld just busted a can of opinions on yo ass!

...oh and @Warrior i hate Foo Fighters, Dave Grohl belongs behind the set

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I can tell you have not listened to much grunge at all. It's ambiguously defined enough that your reaction cannot apply to all of it. At its core, grunge is based on
sound. I would say the most 'true' grunge sound would be along these lines. The key to understanding grunge, in my mind, really is Nirvana. I don't say that lightly, either. There's no question that they were at the center of it. They worked off of the Melvins' sound to shape grunge into a force of its own and then, as they applied other influences (especially, the Pixies), they transformed it into what we know as grunge today (the "Smells Like Teen Spirit" sort of sound). Therefore, grunge can sound like
or
or
.

Grunge, like any other genre, though, still displays a large range of emotions. While angst is certainly there, I think that it more often illustrates the emotions that make it up. There's a lot of raw anger, fatigue, depression and there's also a hugely cathartic and rebellious side. Thanks to the transformations it underwent, there's a very calm and light side to it in opposition to the original, raw and heavy sound. These are just basics, of course. I haven't looked too deeply into grunge, yet.

I have listened to enough grunge to basically form this opinion: it takes lots of elements from from punk, tunes down the aggression and adds some hard rock and gothic elements to it. In taking out the aggression from punk, they take out the only part of punk that I thought gave punk any merit at all. The way I see it in musical terms punk was born out of people thinking that the rock genre had become too overambitious and too over the top musically, coupled with people being genuinely pissed off at the politics at the time. And grunge was somewhat that same kind of retaliation, only towards the metal and hard rock side (I think mostly because the the 80s hair metal fiasco) the only problem was that there was no real aggression, and no real intensity in the songs themselves (the intensity is solely in the interpretations of the songs, which is terrible from a musical standpoint but understandable in an artistic way).

Think about it this way, there might be aggression in grunge, but that aspect is trumped by multiple genres (early punk, thrash metal, death metal, black metal)

There is rebellion which is trumped by early punk and even early rappers

There is the depression side which is better done through doom metal and the blues

My main point is that grunge tries to outdo what was already done, but lacks the inspiration to achieve anything more than second best at pretty much everything.

I mean, there are some genres I hate too much to stand (like rap/hip-hop, black metal or punk) but I can understand what they try and change in the old formulas to keep things fresh, and feel they actually achieve it.

And other genres I hate that I see no point in, and don't achieve anything other than rehashing old ideas in not very successful ways.

Emotions have many depths, you know. Anger isn't only exemplified by the greatest Slayer songs and sadness isn't only illustrated by the most depressing Mountain Goats tunes. You're right. A lot of grunge is restrained emotionally, but that's a lot of the point. Haven't you ever felt that? The hatred burning inside only to fizzle out, drowned by a sea of apathy? A lot of grunge is very suffocating and frustrating and for that, I love it. Not everything is about extremes.

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I don't think of everything as extremes, but anything grunge tries to get across it fails at. I have never heard any grunge successfully do anything other than try too hard. That's another thing though, as I said grunge is only as emotional as what the listener puts into it. In that regards it fails to stand up on its own merits. I find it too generic to be subtle. And grunge doesn't restrain itself only emotionally, but musically as well. There is only one guitar tone in grunge, one vocal tone, that makes it so generic.

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I like grunge because it fucking sounds cool, not because its depressing as fuck, angry as fuck, hard to play as fuck, or melodic as fuck.

Opinions are like a**holes, everybody has one

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I like grunge because it fucking sounds cool, not because its depressing as fuck, angry as fuck, hard to play as fuck, or melodic as fuck.

Opinions are like a**holes, everybody has one

Yeah, and some people need colostomy bags.

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