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2 Brütal - The über speculation thread!

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Alright, so let's get a few things out first so we can avoid talking about them later on:

*It's clear that Double Fine and Mr. Schafer both want to produce a sequel to BL. Fans of the game also want one.

*We know that there are legal disputes between certain publishers that hold the future of the series in a state of uncertainty.

*Some segments of the game had to be cut out as a result of the above - time constraints and such.

*No new content is currently being made for BL, nor is any more planned for the foreseeable future.

*Without a publisher's green-light or financial support, a new game in this series will be next to impossible to pursue.

*Despite these setbacks, it's very possible a sequel may still be considered after everything else is settled...

...And that's that. There is no argument about it, nor will any further argument for it be made in this thread. The above is generally what is understood about the status of having a new BL game at any point in the near future. I wanted to make this clear to focus on the point of this thread instead.

The point of this thread is to speculate!

This is not a suggestion thread like the one that is already stickied, as it would be a bit redundant to make another one.

What we will be talking about in this thread:

*Possible story directions (as such, expect spoilers.)

*Potential arc settings (meaning: characters, locations, events, etc.)

*Art and Design (Basically, how will everything look and what new sights and sounds can we expect?)

*Gameplay Elements (new modes of play, game-playing features, multiplayer, etc.)

*Whatever else we can think of that somehow relates to what BL2 may or may not be...

...so with that, let's begin!

SPECULATIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!!!!!

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Here are some of my speculative ideas:

Return of Lionwhyte!

I don't think Lionwhyte is completely dead. Sure, we saw him get torn apart by the mirror shards and the entire Pleasure Gardens had crumbled around his corpse...but he's too great a character to just let rot. So he doesn't - all the make-up and hair treatment products he had on him at the time of his death preserved his body and it was recovered by the Coil shortly after the Hair Metal Militia's collapse.

Despite the mortal injuries, he survived through a combination of beauty supplies and dark demon magic. This has however, taken a great toll on his personal appearance, so when he returns, he looks even more like a transvestite than he did before - and he has a new army of warriors that he had gathered after the Coil fell to the son of Riggnarok.

He no longer works for Doviculus and is now a major rival to Ironheade throughout the story - they wish to spread their own version of metal across the landscape and generally get in your way. This leads into some interesting battles against Lionwhyte's new faction, which may or may not be villainous as time goes on. Possible revenge motivation against Eddie may be involved as well.

Coil Resurgence w/ Succoria

Another 'dead' character, if the Legends are any indication. It may or may not be set in stone, but Succoria is dead as a doorknob around the time Eddie shows up to the Age of Metal. But what of her remains? What's to say that maybe, somehow, an incredibly unlucky explorer found Succoria's remains and her spirit possessed the wary soul?

She would essentially be reborn under this new form and travel back in time, despite having her will to live devastated. It may be a story of redemption as she returns to find the Coil weakened and overrun by Riggnarok's son - something she will probably blame Doviculus for - they knew each other apparently. She'll probably lug around Doviculus' reanimated head around as a novelty.

The Coil remains become stronger under the order of their old emperor, the White-Winged Death. They reform and set out on a personal mission to change the future, to seek out her son, and then to kill him (or make him their emperor instead). She could have power over Eddie and it would also be a very interesting plot point as it goes on.

Drowned Ophelia's Ghost (in the Fog)

It's implied that Drowned Ophelia was not the real Ophelia after all. However, what of the other tear drinkers? When pushed back to the Sea of Black Tears, did they return to the waters? If so, they're still around and it's possible that Ophelia, being a tear-drinker herself, could still have some command over the Drowning Doom.

Drowned Ophelia had her heart torn out by Doviculus, then she disintegrated into a puddle of black tears. Her heart also did the same when it was recovered from the emperor - she's pretty much dead as dead can be. Still, I'd like to see DD in the next game, so perhaps Ophelia will be able to command the Tear Drinkers herself or have some way to 'return' to her Drowned Form.

This could be by the means of a split personality or maybe a transformation tome that allows her to change. Her parents could also be brought up somewhere or may even still be around the Sea of Black Tears, perhaps trying to convince her to turn against Eddie and Ironheade. There's a lot to be explored I think, with Ophelia and the Tear Drinkers.

Fleetus' Revenge

Fleetus said he'd be back after you beat him at all his races, and that he'd be back to repay you, as is the code of his people. It's also implied several times by him that there are several more like him out in the land and that Eddie would 'find out someday'. This could mean that Fleetus could return with an entirely new faction of his own, or we'll see more characters like him in the world.

I'd have no idea what he'd play like if he had his own faction, but maybe he'd focus on cars or speed. Or maybe you'll be able to recruit him to your side and have him show up at battles or elsewhere. Perhaps as a fast-travel service so you can just get around the area quicker? All of these are possible and welcome.

New Factions?

There's no doubt in my mind we'll see new factions, or we'll see the old factions retooled or at least remastered for a new game.

Here are my ideas:

Returning

>Ironheade - lead by Lita and Eddie, they return as the game's 'balanced' archetype. They still rely heavily on fire-based attacks.

>Tear Drinkers - most likely to be changed the most out of the returning factions, but will still probably play about the same.

>Tainted Coil - The Coil is back, and now with Succoria at its helm, they're stronger than ever before. Still the 'powerhouse'

New

>Fleetus' Faction - possibly an entirely new faction based on viking/folk metal. They'll be the game's 'horde' faction, considering there's an "army" of them, according to Fleetus.

>Kabbage Boy - If we're bringing dead characters back, why not this guy? Based on nu-metal and metalcore - deadly joke faction. He found himself in the age of metal and has somehow survived...only to die again. Story-wise, may become a big villain on accident.

>Lionwhyte's new faction - not just reskins of Ironheade anymore. They're most likely going to be the game's 'cannon' unit - imagine DD meets TC, but with both downsides. Strong attacks, weak defense/units. Based on glam and hair metal, obviously.

>Other new factions: I'd expect one or two more factions to be involved in the sequel, some that will become major players for its story. Gameplay/multiplayer wise, they'll be alternatives to the available factions. Style-wise, there's still symphonic, neo-classical, brutal death/grindcore, and other metal sub-genres left to explore.

So...yeah. :cheese:

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I'm just curious. How long did it take to type all of this?

That's not important... :shut:

Also, one would wonder how - if Kabbage Boy returns - one would survive a decapitating assault from Ormagoden itself. Not to mention, Eddie is the only known person from the future to have been transported to the Age of Metal. Stowaways wouldn't make much sense, but that could be it. Maybe the druids found the remains of the band members or others around the site they discovered Eddie? That may be the most sensible explanation, though then other things would be implicated as well - if they recovered them, for what purpose?

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I like this concept, i would rather have a bigger, more expansive Mutiplayer, and story, i want a long, RPGish story(main story, but a bunch of side quests that add on to the story, like skyrim) i hope that the story goes FORWARD rather than backwards, though i like the concept of black tear rebellion, the story, but the problem is, we already know how THAT story ends, i mean, new players wont know, since they haven't played BL1, but the majority of us already KNOW whats going to happen

I would like to see, lionwhite come back, we didnt actually SEE him impaled, so he could have just got away during the destruction

DD return, i mean, i was thinking, that ophelia's shadow comes back as a mindless puppet(it wasn't even her to begin with..) to fight IH, the REAL Ophelia would be with IH, but you would have to fight the DD also. The Tainted Coil needs to comeback, succoria's ghost makes sense, but in that sense, Doviclous could, therotically, come back as well, so it would end up a huge 5 way war,(DD,IH,succoria's TC, Doviclous's TC, Hair Metal Milita) also, since to stay cannon, or make it intresting, tie in the commerical with metalocalypse, some how, get eddie into the future if even for a little while(or a easter egg, like a "go back to my world? pssh, i already did that last week" i mean if succoria come BACK why couldn't HE go foward.

Another concept is that move the time, move it to where people are in knight's armor and shit

think of succoria coming back did damage to time itself, throwing everyone in the future(Eddie, Opheila,Lita,etc)

In mutiplayer, i want to have stage battles like now, then like a *control the world* esque battlemap, where it can be a AI ver(much longer, like battlefront 2's star map or whatever) a *control the zone* type like in team fortress 2 for actual pvp where you must take control of areas(bleeding coast, bladehenge, etc) and a larger fan scale. (example being, if i own the pleasure garden, i would get 50 fans for every tower, being 500 fans in the bank, fans are needed for both actual battle, but world upgrades) upgrades for ALL troops, and ur car and actual avatar(and you can see it) also raise the unit cap to much higher

Also for mulitplayer you could have a make-your-own-avatar thing, and have a open world game lobby like RDR, so you can go around, with pals(you can join any of the FOUR factions,yeah lion whyte needs his own) now the lobby can allow anyone to play with anyone, or actual PVP, so if you join the doom, you fight ironheade and TC players on sight, you lv up ur char and gain solos that match ur faction, for example a lv 1 doom player starts out with slience and half of the combos you normally get. higher lv you get the more powers you get and more badass you get, for example you may start off looking kind of "footsoldier number 2" kind of look, nothing special, but diffrent from the actual general infantry, at max lv, you can fly and look like a badass hero that rivals the orignal avatars

just a portion of what im thinking

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Just saying, someone must be really bored to just go on and on like that.

You're an asshole.

How? I'm asking a simple question.

The way you say stuff makes you come off like an asshole.

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This has all been said in great detail in many previous threads. If we really want Brutal Legend 2 we should actually band together and make it happen. That petition was a failure we must try other means to achieve success. None of this speculation bullshit (as insightful as this all is). If someone has any REAL ideas that they will see through, please make yourself known so that we may get a wider community behind it.

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Well they could bring him back as a black tear diviculus. At the end he fell into the black river, and that tower he was on could become his new power unit ( smaller of course).

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just a portion of what im thinking

Very nice, I'd like to hear the rest of your ideas if you have them to present.

I'm all for more exploration and side-quests that actually tie into the storyline, as opposed to the random, gimmicky skirmishes that we got. Don't get me wrong, I did enjoy the Sneak Attack and Death Rack missions, as well as the Beer Delivery and Hunting Challenges, but they didn't feel like they were too relevant to the main quest. A sequel continuous to Brutal Legend's ending would be the best way to go about things.

As far as I know,

- it's rather ambiguous though. He's seemingly left for dead at this point, as well as having the entire Pleasure Gardens bombarded with Bleeding Deaths around him. Still, it's possible he could come back and I think the idea I suggested as to how and why would be the funniest and most plausible.

With all the time-traveling going around, you would think there would be rips in its fabric - particularly that produced by years of orgy and sacrifice. I think the current state of the Age of Metal is fitting and stylistically shouldn't change too much. Maybe there will be one segment of the world that's more 'advanced' in terms of chronistically-appropriate getup and speech, but that's about it. Maybe the fantasy metal faction will be like this.

I'm not sure about your massive stage battle idea - would you care to explain it a bit more? Also, leveling-up in Multiplayer would be a bit unfair if it meant you couldn't perform certain solos until you hit a certain amount. Tech-leveling during stage battles should be the way it's kept, but for free roam, perhaps you'd be able to find or gain different solos through exploration or challenges.

Custom avatars are a bit "bleh", imo - perhaps only if they were confined to the proposed free-roam experience and not the actual stage battles. Ironheade just isn't Ironheade without Eddie, and each respective faction is likewise neutered if they don't have their leading man/woman/demon behind it. But you know what would be neat? Co-operative modes. Maybe more than one avatar per faction too, in the case of 4-8 player battles.

And that in single player mode there would be more land maybe and island would be found or the sea of black tears would somehow be dried out, revealing secrets.

As for characters, I think Doviculus should stay dead and Succuria should appear instead.

Hmmm, alright. I still find the idea of Doviculus' reanimated head mouthing off around Succoria to be hilarious though - plus we get to hear more of Tim Curry's magnificent voice work! :)

A dried up sea of black tears could be interesting, we don't really know how large it really is or if it flows into any other part of the landscape. If it does dry up, everyone who had drowned would likely rise up - thus we get Opehlia's parents into the fray this way. That is, assuming the also fell into the waters themselves. Lita has hinted at this a few times, I think.

If we really want Brutal Legend 2 we should actually band together and make it happen.

I'm behind this suggestion myself, although this thread wasn't made to make suggestions - it's a 'fun' thread where we could exchange ideas on what an ideal follow-up to Brutal Legend would be and other ideas we'd probably see get thrown around. Of course, an actual follow-up to Brutal Legend would be the most desirable - the petition was woefully neglected and will never be heard at the painfully slow rate it's advancing at.

I suggest that the first step of action would be to write directly to DF and ask about it. We may or may not get answers, but I'm pretty sure they want to do BL2 - we don't know much about it from their side though. :smirk:

Well they could bring him back as a black tear diviculus. At the end he fell into the black river, and that tower he was on could become his new power unit ( smaller of course).

Maybe. He summoned it with the Chains of Hell and then Launch of Death solos - I still think the BD should be their top-tier unit though. I actually hadn't thought of the possibility of a BT Doviculus, but that is a very good observation - I'm not sure whether or not it'd make much sense or how it would work, but it could be interesting if this path is taken. What would happen if Doviculus went on the path of the Black Tear Rebellion?

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Just saying, someone must be really bored to just go on and on like that.

You're an asshole.

How? I'm asking a simple question.

The way you say stuff makes you come off like an asshole.

Exactly.

It shouldn't matter how long it took for him to write that, he had a really cool idea and decided to share it with us. Theres nothing wrong with that, and by you asking I’m just curious. How long did it take to type all of this? is you basically saying

You have no life.

Which is very douchey

Just my thoughts.

I wasn't implying anything bad. I was just curious to know how long it took.

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well for the big map stage battles i was thinking it akin to the Starwars battlefront 2 starmap(its a pretty solid concept)

the idea is that all the maps form a bigger map, you use a "tour bus" to move to each new zone, each map you can take over if you win that area, winning a area allows you to move through there , and also you would gain fire tributes to spend on new "tour buses" so basically think of tour bus=armys, and the big map battle would be like Risk in a way, but each fight is like a normal stage battle plus any benifits of your faction has (you could also spend fire tributes on perm upgrades for units, etc) also each bus has a hp lv, so if you lose alot with one group then you risk losing that "bus" or army

the free roam would be very balanced, for starters, when you hope in a server,(about up to 16 players, or 12...) each person would be in the same ball park level, if you are level 12, everyone would be 12, or something close, you might encounter a 11 or maybe even a 10 or even a 14, but even if you are a few levels off of someone, you can still take them out easily if they are not paying attention, oh and the tab slabs are all around the world, so even if you DONT have a solo, simply go to it, then get it, but if you leave the server you lose the solo knowlage(unless you already unlocked it)

the custom char thing was simply becuase when you are in freeroam you need some way of being unique, so the char building is a more of a free roam, co-op missions kind of thing, if you went into a stage battle, it would be with classic avatars. but if you were to do co-op missions with people, it would be your own made avatars

also the mutiplayer would have pvp toggles

one type of server that is FULL pvp at all times(it will be brutal)

one that allows pvp, but in only some areas(each faction has their own home territory)

one that pvp is completely off, allowing cross faction co-op(they cant help you with some missions if they are faction bound, but netural missions are fine)

now you may wonder why i keep talking about MP

well ive noticed that MP is a large part of the game, most people play that, so it would be good to expand on that, I mean it would be good to make a much more detailed, and in depth MP, so new players dont get stomped out by godlike players, and they can learn and visably watch their growth. the MP teaches you things that will help in SP AND MP. also the missions would help flesh out some of the factions, besides IH, the DD and TC seem to be headed by one person, and with out that person it all falls apart, which i didnt really like, if they were to expand on the idea of "the entire world is in a giant war" background concept for MP, i would like to see some more prominate figures, not nearly as big as the big 3(doviclous,eddie,ophelia) but more like officers to help flesh out the ranks.

for example

play TC in the MP

start off with misions from some battle nuns

skirmishes of a few groups vs a few groups

rare few big battles like in bladehenge

mid lv you take orders from warfathers

bigger battles are more apparent,

some unique missions that are actually written out rather than random "go kill X ppl"

attack and defend missions

very very few "leader battles"(pvp stage battles but with no wings and limited stage upgrades :3)

fairly high level

missions from overblessers

pretty epic scaled battles

leader battles are more apparent

big attack and defend

steath and sabatoge missions

unique missions

max level(50?)

misions from lord doviclous(or equivilant) himself

these are basically everything summed up, added on with various missions that help expand the universe and story

(you may wonder, "but if everyone gets so famous, wouldnt they be mentioned in the story?" yes and no, they would, but not actually mentioned, more like "a general of TC did X" rather than being a prominant figure such as the big 3)

but this is just me being idealistic

i like to make crazy vidah ideas in my head, they seem pretty cool but alas i will never see most of these ever come to fruitation

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i like to make crazy vidah ideas in my head, they seem pretty cool but alas i will never see most of these ever come to fruitation

They're not bad ideas.

Personally, I think the stage battles are just fine the way they are . They take a somewhat long time to complete for average players (anywhere from 10-20 minutes, more if it's a team battle with 4+ players) and the maps offered are large enough that they are feasible for the kind of action they are capable of. Expanding it would be a bit messy and maybe unnecessary.

As for the free roaming ideas, they're pretty solid. A custom avatar would work for that kind of environment and toggling PvP would also be something to consider - seperating the rough-housers from the casual players could form a good niche within the community. Games could also be launched from this environment as well, I'd think - you could launch a stage battle or a skirmish from a game outpost or something. The multiplayer could even have its own side-story or something - the untold battles in the Age of Metal.

Leveling up should mostly just give you new gear - completing challenges or quests would probably give you more goodies as well. Unlockables such as axe, string, avatar, and vehicle upgrades could flesh out the experience for this kind of crowd. I also like the idea of implementing a system that keeps equal-leveled players within leagues of each other, although it may prevent friends from joining each other - I think being able to accommodate all players regardless of their player level would be a preferable model instead.

Solos obtained from slabs are kept until you log off, and you keep gaining them as you progress - that's not a bad idea, although I'd imagine griefers would prevent players from getting these slabs if they are in fixed locations. New characters for the lore are always welcome, so maybe "commander" figures would also be around to help out players and give them specific tasks to complete for fire tributes or other goodies. All of this is starting to sound like an MMORPG - I am unsure if DF wants to head in that direction, though.

Since we're still on the subject of Multiplayer, here are some of my speculations of possible features we would see (or want to see):

Mültiplayer - Modes and concepts

Stage Battle

Standard 2-faction Stage Battle. Up to 8 players.

I'm not really sure what they could do to improve the nature of online stage battles, as they're not really bad at all. Anything to improve it would come as a surprise, as I consider them to be a good experience for the most part. I don't think they should change too much from what we've already come to know, although I'm certain they will be retooled or refined some more, given the chance. I think putting a time limit would make sense though - so you can ensure that games that have reached stalemates don't drag on and such.

Tour of Destruction

Standard 2-faction Objective Battle. Up to 8 players

This one kind of draws from the idea of having larger stage battles, or at least stage battles that involve a different sort of pacing and progression - these are battles with two stages. In the first stage, both sides have a tour-bus (or a faction-analogous substitute) they have to get to the other side to attack the enemy base. The leaders must use their units to escort the bus to the other side before their opponents can do the same. Once they cross over, the losing faction has to defend their base until time runs out or otherwise fall to the victorious band.

In order for their 'bus' to move faster, players must capture resource nodes - the more nodes one side has, the faster their bus can travel to its destination. All nodes on the field must be active before the 'buses' start to move - there are also small gates and checkpoints that must be broken through to ensure the 'bus' doesn't stall. A player can stop an opponent's 'bus' from moving if they send a friendly unit over to stop it - the more units you get near the bus, the greater the effect.

Once a 'bus' gets to its destination, it must be defended while it counts down - you must keep enemy units away from it during this time, otherwise the timer stops and resets. The winning side gets to attack the player's base (stage 2 of the map) and it plays out like a regular stage battle, but with a twist - one side must attack the base (the winners of round one) and the other must defend it (the losing side) for a set amount of time. If the victors cannot destroy the enemy base in time, they lose and the other side will win the game. Capturing resource nodes adds to this time limit.

I'm not completely figured out on what else this has to include though - it's an idea that needs refinement, but I think it could work.

Legends (Skirmish)

Unique 2-faction Skirmish. Up to 8 players.

This is sort of going to be a replacement for the Legends series shown in the game. In this mode, you can recreate famous (or infamous) battles from the Age of Metal, ranging from the time of the Titans to the Black Tear Rebellion to then-present day. A lot of story could be built up in this sort of mode, with anonymous heroes at the heart of each tale (that is to say, your custom player avatar) to drive it forward.

These skirmishes would be different from stage battles and more closely resemble PvP modes in an MMORPG game - with each side having different objectives to accomplish that would ensure conflict between them. It would be a story-driven skirmish mode within the multi-player that adds to the lore of BL's universe. You would be compelled to play out every 'legend' to get more out of it and such. The missions would be varied and I would think each faction has stories specific to their side of the conflicts throughout the ages.

Free Roam

Run amok the Metal Land. Up to 8 players.

It's pretty much you running around the map, but with other players in the world as well. There would be a ton of stuff to do like challenges and small quests you could take part in for fire tributes. I think the best model for this kind of environment would be Red Dead Redemption's, as it gave a lot to players in its massive landscape to do with and to each other. Other ideas suggested are somewhere around the thread here, so I won't go into too much detail on this one.

Co-op

The Story mode, but with co-op capabilities. That's mostly it, really.

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i like those ideas. the only reason why it might sound like a MMORPG(besides the fact that ive been playing scriptcraft again) is becuase i loved the concept RDR had, but then if you realize it, all the missions were grind quests, and i didnt like that, so i figured that make the same basic formula, but add in unique stories, faction missions, lesser, officer/commander chacters to flesh the experence out(i mean killing 20 or so wolfs for no apprant reason doesnt make sense, but if you were told to attack a enemy outpost becuase it was a foothold for enemies presence in the area, and that would allow for your forces to move unhindered makes much more sense...)

the free roam avatars have as much RPG elements to that of slightly above RDR, since you wont alot stats but have a slight control over what solos you get first example (black tear infusion? or shadowblast?) youw will get both, but you can pick what you want first. its pretty straight forward

you could make custom lobbies with your friends, so pvp becomes irrelevent, and its pure co-op, unless you want a friend pvp type deal going on, then that would work as well

tab slabs for each faction would mostly be in a safe, home territory

only the big, powerful ones would be hidden in open territory, and even then, after weather effects/uber solo gets learned it moves.

also each weather effect would be apparent only in the local area

for example

if i went to death's clutch, and played encompassing gloom it will stay there, in deaths clutch( in free roam it decrease enemy attack dmg and armor slightly, matter of fact, all players of that faction get a bounus, albet a slight one) also it would last 3 times as long, but at 3 times the cooldown. also weather changes depend on the area, and how well your faction's control of the area is(yeah, i know, still sounds like MMO with the faction deal, well deal with it, it make total sense)

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also Co-op

player 2 plays ophelia

she knows how to play music like eddie does(maybe some residual effect from her evil self)

just realized that, and how it could be implemented

>the first time in a long time i would actually WANT to be player 2

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I did a shitload of pondering on the story back when I still believed there'd be a sequel.. and I actually came up with what I believe is a plausible backstory theory for the whole shebang. I have nothing to say in my defense other than that I was obsessed with the game and was rather blissful that way.

Remember the dialog Dovicolus had in the pleasure dome? When he still believed he was speaking to Succoria he said, and I quote: "blah blah.. why do you live among these humans? Your mission was to spy on them. Not to join them." Call me a moronic buffoon if I'm wrong, but to my knowledge there was no information in the game regarding Succoria actually spying on the humans. In the age of Metal, she was the warlord actively waging war against them, and she went to the future believing the human race was, if not erased, then at least appropriately enslaved by their rightful S&M overlords. My only guess would be that she, like Eddie, had some sort of shapeshifting abilities that allowed her to blend in with the metal age humans and that way be the only demon who could. Enter some sort of romantic plot chapter with Riggnarock, which Ophelias parents found out about and later warned her about the fact that their kid could come back(hence the lines "I was afraid this would happen" and "I hope my parents were wrong about this..", not to mention that she was actually aware of Eddies heritage to begin with.. for one, she obviously suspected it when she said she "couldn't tell him" after the pleasure dome escape). Had some more stuff I can't remember, but what the heck. Thought someone might find my creepy daydreams remotely interesting.

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I did a shitload of pondering on the story back when I still believed there'd be a sequel.. and I actually came up with what I believe is a plausible backstory theory for the whole shebang. I have nothing to say in my defense other than that I was obsessed with the game and was rather blissful that way.

Remember the dialog Dovicolus had in the pleasure dome? When he still believed he was speaking to Succoria he said, and I quote: "blah blah.. why do you live among these humans? Your mission was to spy on them. Not to join them." Call me a moronic buffoon if I'm wrong, but to my knowledge there was no information in the game regarding Succoria actually spying on the humans. In the age of Metal, she was the warlord actively waging war against them, and she went to the future believing the human race was, if not erased, then at least appropriately enslaved by their rightful S&M overlords. My only guess would be that she, like Eddie, had some sort of shapeshifting abilities that allowed her to blend in with the metal age humans and that way be the only demon who could. Enter some sort of romantic plot chapter with Riggnarock, which Ophelias parents found out about and later warned her about the fact that their kid could come back(hence the lines "I was afraid this would happen" and "I hope my parents were wrong about this..", not to mention that she was actually aware of Eddies heritage to begin with.. for one, she obviously suspected it when she said she "couldn't tell him" after the pleasure dome escape). Had some more stuff I can't remember, but what the heck. Thought someone might find my creepy daydreams remotely interesting.

Whoa, at first i was just going to say "oh she was to spy on the future humans"

but then i read the part about Ophelia and her parents and damn

you just made me stop and ponder about that

well that would be a interesting background if that is true

but one could say that this was foretold by the prophecy so she could have actually figured it out herself that succoria went to the future with some slaves, and eddie came back in time, looking like riggnorak (or danzig back when he use to be something) i mean it would take quite the imagination, but looking at the entire world, looks like everyone did, so it isn't impossible, but shit did she call it

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i will always ponder the ideas of

What if Ophelia died by the razorboars?:

i mean that would throw a monkey wrench in everyone's plan, it would completely change how the game ended

What if Lars DIDN'T die:

again, this would change the game greatly, since if Lars didn't die, he would talk sense into Lita and Eddie, thus no Drowned Ophelia

What if Ophelia rejected Eddie's advances?:

may not seem much, but that wouldn't drive her to jump in the sea after Eddie's "betrayal" thus changing it alot

What if Doviclous didnt open the sea back up?:

would we see the Tainted Coil's homeland?

What if the Drowned Ophelia actually killed Doviclous before he killed her?:

let that grow inside your brain for a few minutes

What if the TC and DD teamed up like Ophelia says sometimes in MP?:

now THAT would be crazy

What if Eddie never found out about his past?

well that would be interesting

well now i feel like ron paul with the what ifs

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What if Ophelia never bitched out at Eddy for not trusting her?

I mean come on he was just asking her questions >__>

No need to throw necklaces and drown yourself

after watching your icon and reading that i couldnt think with a straight face

you are right

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Succoria is a w hore!!! Doviculus: " you know, I'm glad your mother refused my advances all those years ago, because, at least I know I'm not your father... There arn't many who can say that."

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Succoria is a w hore!!! Doviculus: " you know, I'm glad your mother refused my advances all those years ago, because, at least I know I'm not your father... There arn't many who can say that."

Well, Doviculus seems to have fathered the majority of the Tainted Coil, so it makes sense that when Succoria was the demon ruler she would have done the same.

How? Succoria didnt advance him meaning he didn't father the Coil back then.

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What if Ophelia never bitched out at Eddy for not trusting her?

I mean come on he was just asking her questions >__>

No need to throw necklaces and drown yourself

Lol, yeah. She could just have TOLD him that he was the unholy offspring of the former demon empress, who was probably the original enslaver of humanity to boost. Eddie would definitely have accepted that fact just spiffy, especially since the new and incredibly racist leader of humanity was listening with a halberd pointed their way..

By the way, there are some unanswered questions I've been pondering on for a while. First of all, where the heck did Mangus come from in the first place? One minute the entire 'army' was Lars, Lita, Ophelia and Eddie and their newly recruited headbangers, and then, poof.

And what do you think happened to Ormagöden after the Kabbage boy concert? I mean, the crowd seemed to be jumping around like a very very happy crowd of newly converted metalheads, but there are more than a fair share of dying screams lingering in that background.. and Ormagöden turning the present day into a second age of Metal by his sheer presence could make for VERY nice sequel idea.

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i always wonder what would happen if eddie was, god forbid, said "fuck this shit, im becoming king of the demons"

improbbable yes

is he part demon?

yes,

and son of succoria

empress of demons before doviclous

im pretty sure some would jump on

boy THAT would be just insane

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Hardly, but lets not forget Lita's stance on demons in the broader terms of it.. Either Eddie would not believe Ophelia, and the same thing would've happen, or he/Lita WOULD have believed her.. I don't think Lita would have liked the fact that their organizer was a demon mixbreed, seriously. Though Eddie getting kicked out of Ironheade, or at least get fired as a roadie, would also have been a nice twist to the story of course.

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I don't know if this has been discussed before, but the part were Doviculus tell Eddie that it was the past not the future that the empresses and Eddie's dad went to. If it was true, then Eddie is the one who had brought Ormogonden into the world and change it into a brutal land.

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I don't know if this has been discussed before, but the part were Doviculus tell Eddie that it was the past not the future that the empresses and Eddie's dad went to. If it was true, then Eddie is the one who had brought Ormogonden into the world and change it into a brutal land.

No, they went to the future, but her job wasnt to tell what lies ahead, but to tell on how to use the titan's relics,

they realize that the tab slabs held some sort of mystic power, they couldn't figure out how to use it, so they figured having one huge blood orgy that(how that worked i dont even) flung them into the future, they would encounter their future selves, ask how they got so advanced, fly backwards in time, explain it to everyone, and save them X amount of time, by getting detailed answers, then they could have finally used the titan's relics

(to be honest, when it comes to figuring out things like that, they wernt to bright, some of the plans were pretty apparent, also

guardian of metal and all)

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