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Melting Sky

Lvl 100 Hospital Survival without Sniper Turrets? Has anybody pulled this off?

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I was thinking it would be a really fun and challenging thing to try and do, a 100 wave hospital run without the aide of the almighty sniper turret. I'm curious if anyone has already done it?

By sniper turret I mean the traditional sniper turrets. The laser doesn't count in my book since it really deserves to be in a category of its own.

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You would also really need someone who is an expert at blocking willie in a specific killbox area. Cluster mortars would have to replace snipers as your main damage dealing emplacement.

My god the explosions would be everywhere...

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You would also really need someone who is an expert at blocking willie in a specific killbox area. Cluster mortars would have to replace snipers as your main damage dealing emplacement.

My god the explosions would be everywhere...

If that's the case it might lag out lol. Could be a good start on a strategy though. We talking solo or w/ partners? If prefer to have at least 2 mates with me.

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You would also really need someone who is an expert at blocking willie in a specific killbox area. Cluster mortars would have to replace snipers as your main damage dealing emplacement.

My god the explosions would be everywhere...

If that's the case it might lag out lol. Could be a good start on a strategy though. We talking solo or w/ partners? If prefer to have at least 2 mates with me.

Solo would be really hard to pull off. Especially on rotating Big Willie rounds. I usually run with 2 other mates in a static group. We usually go 2 engineer (1 honeychurch 1 selker) and 1 that switches depending on how we're feeling that day. We've successfully done 100 on Hospital twice with 3 engineers. Still trying to find that balance on the other two though.

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I wouldn't even dream of attempting a solo run without sniper turrets. O_o

I haven't tried a solo hospital run with the new gear, but at my skill level I would imagine it would still be very challenging for me. In fact, that sounds like a fun project. Less stressful than trying to solo swamp to 100. I keep getting killed by those damn buggy jacobs waves in the upper 60s where they show up without anything to protect and charge the bases while you turrets do nothing.

If anybody wants to get together to try hospital without snipers just add me. It sounds like fun to me too. It's why I was asking if anyone had tried it.

I have the same name here as on xbox live.

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With the new laser turrets. Yes.

Seriously, all you need is that, camo shotgun turrets, dampeners and collection prods as you stay busy with Jacobs.

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I was thinking the lasers and mortars would probably make fun alternatives to the sniper turrets, but all the times I have experimented with the lasers I tend to have an issue with them not doing enough damage and coming up short on range. Since hospital has weaker tubes its not such a problem there but I think it would still be a lot more challenging than using real sniper turrets. I would love to try it out sometime with a solid team. Again my offer stands. Anyone wanting to try the hospital without real sniper turrets just add and invite me and I am game.

Lasers are neat, I absolutely love the idea of them but if you compare the dps to scrap ratio on them they are the weakest of all the turrets. Since there is no easy way to estimate how much damage the laser turrets and weapons really do I took them all to the pylon and recorded how long it took for each turret and weapon to take the pylon's first bar of life down to zero. Unfortunately because of the turrets being distracted by trash tube despite my killing them ASAP the results have some extra variables tossed in but they are still a pretty good estimate. The laser turret did take down the pylon about 25% faster than the super shredder but you can buy two and a half super shredders for the price of a single laser.

The laser has the advantage of a considerably longer range and most importantly they pierce, but the super shredder produces a lot of bonus scrap and is sooo much cheaper. Plus the shredder uses light green slots rather than the all important orange ones. The laser has a larger footprint than the shredder also.

Overall, for a laser to be worth its slot and the scrap to plop it down you really have to find a nice choice spot for it where it will shoot down a path and pierce a load of tubes at once. They are great for knob and cathy removal in a compact package. I think for a hospital run without snipers they would certainly have a place, although personally I think I would us cluster mortars as my main damage dealing turret.

The piercing sniper has got to be the single most overpowered thing in the game. When I tested it at the pylon the thing killed the pylons first bar about 3 times faster than a super shredder and about twice as fast as the laser plus it pierces and most importantly its range is absolutely insane. With pierce they even kill jacobs now which was the one real shortfall the sniper turrets once had. About the only thing snipers aren't great for is killing large numbers of trash tubes like knobs and fliers. Also they are completely useless against those buggy jacob waves you always end up running into at some point, but every turret in the game but mines will fail against them. They are a total solo run game ender if you don't have mines.

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If you need them to hit Volt Droppers, you have to compensate by placing them on higher ground. There are some very specific spots on Hospital you NEED to reserve for your laser turrets if you want them to take out Volt Droppers quickly.

The real challenge would be to use Mortars...

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If you need them to hit Volt Droppers, you have to compensate by placing them on higher ground. There are some very specific spots on Hospital you NEED to reserve for your laser turrets if you want them to take out Volt Droppers quickly.

The real challenge would be to use Mortars...

I'm immediately drawn to putting laser turrets around the outer rim of the main island facing the bridge to get that first pass in on VD, then behind the hospital (I call it the "inner circle"). Then mortars everywhere else pretty much. I think the short side will give you the biggest trouble without snipers. You'll have to get really creative with mines and barrel launchers if you have another engineer with you

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The mortars would not be for a solo run but rather multi-person. I think both mortars and lasers would be very important as would mines.

You can actually use upgraded flak cannons on the volt droppers also, but I think that the laser is a better use of most of the places one would put down flak.

In the end, it will probably be up to your heavy or medium sniper trench to deal with the volt droppers. Luckily on hospital the volt droppers tend to be infrequent and rather weak compared to the other maps.

I still would love to actually give this a try. I have seen a lot of good strategy tips on this thread but I have yet to see anyone who has actually pulled it off or even tried it.

Just add me and we can try it sometime. I think it'll be a lot of fun. Think of how pretty it will look when dozens of laser open fire in a massive cross fire as mortars rain down on the tubes.

Good spots for lasers would be most of the old sniper and shredder perches. I have used lasers on hospital before and they were quite good on the bridge also but we lacked mines so I'm not sure if their large footprint would interfere with mining the path.

Oddly enough, good laser spots are often down on the ground slightly off the left or right of where the tubes walk where they can shoot down the length of the path. With pierce, putting them up high which is normally a great idea for sniping actually prevents them from hitting as many enemies at once. Unless it greatly improves the area they can see and reach its usually better just to plop them down low. As others have mentioned the lasers meant for the volt droppers should be up high directly in the VD's path and fully upgraded.

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This thread is awesome! Challenges like these are kinda a breath of fresh air. I'm kinda over placing pierce snipers ;)

Needless to say, doing this solo is proving a difficult task. I've only tried two or three times so far. I got somewhere in the high 60's using the following:

Selker with two fiestas and speedy bipods

Laser turrets

Massive mines

Archie flak turrets

Knockback shotguns (helps keep them off the base...a little...)

The lack of dampeners and collectors will really make achieving 100 in a selker pretty difficult. Scrap is invaluable, and I found myself sacrificing huge piles of it later on in order to prioritize threats. That, and running back and forth without having dampeners to slow tubes coming from different directions is a nightmare.

The thing is, if you choose the honeychurch for the blue slots, it's really hard to select a combination of orange and green emplacements that can cover all possible threats. Laser turrets are good for air, jacobs, and knobs, but they don't deal a lot of damage on the big guys later on...so you'll probably a shotgun turret in the green slot to do most of the damage dealing.

Mines are incredibly effective against pretty much everything aside from knobs and air/volt droppers...so it really becomes a gamble between taking archie flak turrets or shredders. If you take archies, you'll dominate the air, but you won't have a chance against knobs unless you arm your trench with machine guns (not very effective later on)...and if you take shredders, you may do some damage to air targets early on, but it'll get reaaaaallly tough as you hit the later waves.

Mortars would be more effective than mines with the knobs, but would be less effective against jacobs because they're not going to hit them at all unless they're really close to whatever the mortar is targeting...the only reasonable choice for pairing a green turret with the mortar would be the archie flak turret for air and volt droppers. But that means mortars and dampeners need to be allll over the map.

At this point, I'm kinda thinking of trying out The Real Acel's idea: honeychurch with laser turrets and camo shot guns. I'll give it few runs in the near future and see how things turn out.

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If somebody pulls this off solo they are worthy of having a small religion created in their honor.

I was thinking of doing this as a group. Removing mines would definitely be a fun way to play as well.

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I'm leaning on 2 or 3 people being the optimal number for this. 4 would just give the tubes unnecessary extra hit points. One selker and one honeychurch should be able to do this no problem. Add me sometime and we'll give it a shot.

I'm still going to try getting to 100 solo, though :)

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Just made a solo run to wave 93 using lazers and camo shotguns. I finished wave 92 with about 55% base health...obviously feeling pretty confident at that point. Then out of nowhere a wave of blitzers w/ jacobs from all three lanes, snipe tuners w/jacobs, and a volt dropper hit. The volt dropper made several bombing runs, but it was the jacobs that really hit hard. I couldn't keep my trench alive long enough to do anything to the jacobs because of the snipe tuners, and obviously none of my turrets could damage the jacobs on their own in a big group. Slow and painful death. LOL

I know sometimes the waves are random...but if that wave shows up every time I honestly don't see how making 100 is possible solo.

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I have seen that same wave end quite a few runs. I think it is a random wave but its deadly if you are on an all engineer team with short range guns because the snipers are pretty much turret proof when they spawn with jacobs and they do sooo much damage that late in the game.

That wave comes with snipers that spawn with jacobs on both rocks.

I think I was on wave 98 or 97 when me and another guy in an engineering chassis ran into this wave. Like you our base was in great shape and we thought it would be smooth sailing to the end but those damn snipers took us both out at the same time and it was over.

The only turret that is at all useful against jacob protected snipers on that level are the cluster mortars and I think using those instead of lasers would seriously hurt you when going solo every time volt droppers and other fliers showed up.

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Just tried this again...using mortars and archies. Can't seem to make it past 82 with that setup. Anyone else actually make it to 100?

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Aaaaaand done with me, Reverend, Melting Sky, and Baddest. Melting got stuck on long side and had to quit around waaaave 70? Even so, no Volt Droppers showed up afterward and we had like 1-2 Big Willies attack the base once or twice, so I'm definitely sure we would have beaten it even with 4 people (We ended Wave 100 with ~50% health).

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And so it begins..

the fall of the sniper turret.

Possibly... This was also achieved on hospital which the tubes have lower health. If this is done on swamp then I'd say so but until then I say PST's rule mars.

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Right on, I figured you guys probably made it. It sucked getting stuck like that.

I was busy shooting that damn volt dropper and not watching where I put my feet. Grrrr!

I wish I had gotten to see it through.

I'm always up for messing around and going on odd mission so hit me up again if you feel like trying this on swamp or something. :coolsmile:

Swamp is actually a good map for the cluster mortar due to the crossroads and small size.

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And so it begins..

the fall of the sniper turret.

Possibly... This was also achieved on hospital which the tubes have lower health. If this is done on swamp then I'd say so but until then I say PST's rule mars.

You might be right. I'm just so sick and tired of putting down sniper turrets and upgrading them until you win. I believe swamp to be doable without them and I would like to take up the challenge with whoever dares. New thread?

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I hear ya crackalackin I feel that the PSTs was a lifeline then but now...it's all about experimenting with the tools were given. The main reason PST's are used on swamp is to deal with the VD. At least lately I've been playing swamp with my buddy and the mines work great for the paths, pair those up with mortars and that's a win/win. Archie flak only deals a lil bit over 100 when upgraded and later level VDs have tons of health.

Would lasers and shotgun wielding chassis take over the role of PST's?

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I'm always up for weird challenges. Swamp sounds fun and so does an all light turret run on hospital.

I was thinking on the all light turret run that the massive amounts of scrap generated by the larges numbers of shredders is going to probably going to far exceed what we can spend by lvl 100 particularly since green turrets are cheap as hell to fully upgrade. The hole map will probably be crowded out by around wave 85 and fully upgraded since our longest range turrets will still have to basically be right next to where the tubes walk. Unlike with snipers and even lasers where we can start placing them far off when we run out of prime spots, we simply won't have any new places to stick them. I think the longest reaching green only shoots about 140 yards fully upgraded and that's flak.

It might actually be wise to run mediums and heavy trenches for a large part of the team. I think we will need the extra volt dropper killing fire power and the lost scrap won't mean much since we won't even be able to spend it all in the end anyway.

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Gonna need A LOT of Jacob/burst transmitter control. I believe camo shotguns will hit jacobs(Aiming at what they are protecting once they pass) and obviously that will be your only line of defense from burst transmitters outside of yourself. Maybe just a 3 man squad of karlsons? Turrets are more expensive but you'll need at least 1 person using a collector/repair crane/ dampeners. Leaves a camo shotgun, shredder, and 1 Archie flak to control everything outside of bosses.

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I believe you're right unsent soul. Perhaps we'll go back to the way things used to be when we are thought big trenches were the key.

I could see a 100 swamp run no PST w/ 3 Karlsson and 1 engineer. A Karlsson with 6 fiesta 6's is powerful and you can actually hit VD multiple times with those shotguns (200 range oddly enough) in swamp while he stoops down to blue.

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I mentioned using only green and blue emplacements during last night's game as a joke. Butttttt...

I got to thinking. Maybe it's not out of reach? I started weighing all the different loadouts, and I think the following setup is as close to achieving this as possible.

Three players. Three Woodruffs. One playing the short side, armed with dual alberts and quickload legs for the volt dropper and jacobs on each lane. One with quad fiestas for all-purpose damage dealing. And one armed with two Fiestas and two Hole Punchers (or other preferred explosive weapon) for jacob corralling and late-game breaker busting.

Why Woodruffs instead of Karlssons? One, everything costs less. And two, they can actually hold willies. And as far as the number of players goes...two people isn't enough to make sure each lane is covered (or have one of each of the three blue turrets), and four people would add unnecessary extra health for tubes.

Ideal loadouts for the three trenches:

#1 - Woodruff with dual Alberts and quickload legs

Blue: Repair Crane

Green: Archie Flak Turret

Green: Super Shredder Turret

This guy would be responsible for creating a strong flak perimeter for the volt dropper, and placing a few shredders in key places on each lane for knobs/scrap. The repair crane is the obvious choice for support emplacement, because this person shouldn't stray too far from the sniper perch overlooking the short side hill. They should also be responsible for calling out the tubes on each lane and being ready to provide sniper cover on either of the three lanes within a moments notice.

#2 - Woodruff with quad Fiestas and speedy bipods

Blue: Dampener

Green: Knockback Shotgun Turret (obvious choice, as it's highest damage dealing green turret)

Green: Camo Shotgun Turret

This guy would be responsible for creating kill boxes and holding the willies in them. You're going to want as many knockback shotguns shooting at willies as possible. Placing camo shotguns on the path inside those kill boxes is going to help tremendously. The reason this person should have the four Fiestas is because they'll be able to do over 400 damage per shot on the willies while underneath them. Explosive weapons shouldn't be used if you want holding the willies to be an easy task :) It's also worth mentioning that this person can do significant damage to the volt dropper if they know where to stand.

#3 - Woodruff with dual Fiestas on one side, and Hole Punchers/Grenades on the other.

Blue: Collectors

Green: Camo Shotgun Turret

Green: Either Super Shredders, Knockback Shotguns, or Archies

The person should be responsible for Jacob control...especially the Jacob/Burst Transmitter combos. Which means placing plenty of camo shotgun turrets down the path, starting at the conduits. The only chance at getting to 100 means making sure the Burst Transmitters never get to any of the destructible turrets. I can't remember off-hand, but I don't think shot gun turrets have the reach to even hit Burst Transmitters. The camo shotguns are the only antidote.

A few things everyone would need to look out for:

-Snipe Tuners. None of the green emplacements can reach them. This could be bad. Real bad. Stay healed as much as possible, and get ready to prioritize who should be where based on the health of each person. Whoever is playing Woodruff #1 needs to focus on killing them as much as possible.

-Jacob/Aerial combinations. The Jacobs absolutely have to be either killed or delayed long enough for the aerials to get out of their protection before they reach base.

-Jacob/Burst Transmitters. The Jacobs have to disappear as fast as possible. No further explanation needed.

-Willies - Holding them in kill boxes is a must. Shot guns pack a punch, but they don't have range. Don't hold them unless they're in a position to go down as fast as possible...or else the next wave will start before they go down. Having a several kill boxes per lane (at least the bridge and long side) will help with Willie parades, as each player can hold a willie in a kill box (and hope the fourth willie doesn't eff things up)

What do you guys think? Anything to add/remove/change? I'm seriously considering giving this a go. Worst case scenario, we have a good laugh.

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