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Aristotlol

The documentary

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Does anybody else like to imagine that Levering_2pp's avatar is staring deeply into the eyes of Mike Villasuso's avatar? No...? Um..well I guess I'll just be moving along then. Forget I said anything.

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How long of a gap should we expect between an episode and the additional content? I, for one, am mostly interested in the cool nitty-gritty stuff that goes on and hopefully learning something from it.

Also will there be behind the scenes stuff for the spoilery stuff after the game is gold?

We'll put up additional content when we can, like if something really cool happens that won't fit in an episode. We don't have a real schedule mapped out for it. We're playing a lot of this by ear since it's kind of a weird project. Has something like this been done before? Anyway, i doubt we'll see any long gaps in content delivery since there seems to be always something going on.

Maybe we could have spoilers in the extras for the physical/digital release once everything is said and done? Havent really thought about it but that's a cool way to approach that kind of content.

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I for one actually insist on spoilers being in the documentary.

If we tie 2 Players hands by demanding that they don't show any spoilers at all, what will we end up with?

If they can't show what people are working on and the people they interview can't talk too much about they're working on, what's left?

This situation reminds me of those lame Making Of... promotional segments that are sometimes released with movies. They avoid talking about the movie in any way. Instead, they go something like: Cut to a guy in front of a green screen in a wire harness, Cut to an actress sitting by a set talking about how great it is to work with the director and how she thinks the movie will be awesome, Cut back to the same footage of the guy in front of the green screen. Oh,and maybe it was cold on the set one day or something.

I'm not saying that this documentary will be like the above and if anybody can make it work it's 2 Player but why limit in any way what they can do?

I say darn the spoil-pedoes, full speed ahead! :lol:

Just my opinion.

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Some of the best real Making of documentaries I have seen are:

- The Autobiography of Oldboy

On the Oldboy collector´s edition they released two making of discs, the conventional one for most people and the three and a half hour up-close and in-depth look at the making of the film without any voice-over or narration, other than someone occasionally addressing the camera. You are essentially watching them make the movie. For film buffs, it's certainly interesting, but over three hours of this footage can be a tad tedious. That´s why they released the normal "making of" clips on another disc.

- Lost in la Mancha

"Well, somebody's got to make a film and if it's not going to be me then it might as well be you." Those were director Terry Gilliam´s words to the making of crew when he realized that during the shooting of his film "The Man Who Killed Don Quixote", things started to go really awry. The movie production was a disaster and got cancelled but the as the documentary shows, the extraordinary and tragic circunstances that the filmmakers had to cope with, not only were unintentionally hilarious but a testament of all the hard work that goes into shooting a film. Respect.

- How Princess Mononoke Was Born (Mononoke Hime wa koushite umareta)

It´s a 3-disc set with over six-and-a-half hours of content. It compiles detailed behind-the-scenes documentaries about 'Princess Mononoke,' from the film's conception up to its theatrical release and after... they even show a section where they talk about the marketing and distribution strategy and an office earthquake drill! No english subs, but you can watch most of it fansubbed in youtube.

- Parts of the LOTR behind the scenes clips for the extended editions.

- King Kong - Peter Jackson's Production Diaries

The dozen of episodes where they actually showed how things were really done with ALL the production departments, the rest are just ok.

- Most of the on location behind the scenes clips on David Fincher´s Special/Collector´s Edition dvds .

Specially when he shows how things get done, like for example real Film Tests samples and Color Correction techniques.

- Special Mentions: Hearts of Darkness: A Filmmaker's Apocalypse, Burden of Dreams and American Movie.

- Terminator 2, Alien, Aladdin, Kingdom of Heaven, Jaws, Star Wars, Gladiator, The Thing and Blade Runner are worth mentioning even when they are more conventional.

Personally I don´t enjoy the talking heads interview remembering the past intercuted with clips of random people working, as much as being there at the moment on location, learning not only how things get done but how human interactions and leadership really works as the project develops. After all, if there are more than a couple of people involved at any project, it´s guaranteed that there´s going to be at least a little drama (not necessarily much, but hey, that´s our nature) to keep audiences entertained. All I want is answers for this curiosity and wonder that beats me with the question: - How did they really DO that?, Man I wish I could have been there to ask them or figure it out.-

Tim once joked that the documentary was going to be like “The Office” and he was going to take the part of Ricky Gervais. In a way is similar to what I was expecting: the non clinical approach to creation. Full access to the real deal.

Hope this post helps somehow.

Cheers mates.

Ps. Btw, have you read "The Jaws Log"?, it´s one of the best making of books out there and I felt it really captured how was to be on that set.

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We'll put up additional content when we can, like if something really cool happens that won't fit in an episode. We don't have a real schedule mapped out for it. We're playing a lot of this by ear since it's kind of a weird project. Has something like this been done before? Anyway, i doubt we'll see any long gaps in content delivery since there seems to be always something going on.

Maybe we could have spoilers in the extras for the physical/digital release once everything is said and done? Havent really thought about it but that's a cool way to approach that kind of content.

When the game is released, you guys should include all the bloopers on the bonus disc. :D

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I agree with Mike Villasuso in that the more actual information a Making of documentary gives into how something is made the better they tend to be.

I guess the main thought that informs my thinking on the question of what to show or what not to show is the idea that the documentary and the game are distinct entities. And if this project is to deliver on Tim Schafer's promise of showing us how the sausage is made, warts and all it may actually entail showing us some sausage. I for one actually think that the so called "warts" may be the most interesting part and is the part that I most want to see.

Now to answer Levering_2pp's rhetorical question of "Has something like this been done before?". Well, it depends. If you're talking about a documentary crew being embedded at a software company while they work on an important project, then ya. There were a bunch of documentaries in the late 'nineties that centered around start-ups and a spate of films that were made more recently when apps first became big. If, however, you are talking about a documentary that truly provides a window into a company, on a weekly or monthly basis, that's good enough to where fans can really tell how the project is taking shape and then records their reactions as the process unfolds, then yes, it is something new under the sun.

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Surely the documentary is going to be ALL blooper, ALL the time. Y'know, being real and stuff ;)

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Subtitles are a little bit tricky. It would be very expensive to get them done professionally for the amount of content we're releasing, especially if we're talking EFIGS. We don't have selectable sub options with the video streams either, so we would have to burn them in to the video. Getting these made would slow the turnaround time of the videos too.

I don't have anything against fan subs, but i would rather not include them in the official release. Not to say anything would happen, but it is possible for people to insert inappropriate material into fan subs since we can't understand them and check the material. Let's not forget what happened with Minecraft.

We can look into English subs for the digital release at the end of the project, and maybe other languages as well. It's something we're thinking of, and we'll do what we can to find the best solution.

It would be great to have English Subtitles. For us non English speakers it's easier to have those on top of English voices.

So uhm is the documentary either on DVD or Bluray, will we be able to choice the medium, or are you going to stick to one specific to include in the box? Personally I fancy a Bluray.

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I'm on board with Bent and agree with a lot of Mike Villasuso's favs.

While I understand there are people who can't stomach the thought of spoilers, I would really love to see how things are actually done on a project like this. Taking things from concept to reality is fascinating, and I'm interested in documentaries that explore more of the minutiae. I think it would be great to have a general overview that contains the lighter side of things, bloopers, overall impressions of how things work followed by a more in-depth look at it all. That way, people who abhor spoilers can choose to stop watching and revisit the documentary after they've played through the game. Even holding back the release of more in-depth material until the game has been out for a while would be amazing as I do understand the need to keep things under wraps while a game is still in development.

I've never actually minded spoilers myself. They don't detract from my enjoyment of a game/movie because, for me, the interesting part is seeing how everything unfolds. Still, I respect the fact that others like to be surprised.

p.s. I'm not entirely sure I want to see the sausage though. Worried. :long:

/kidding

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Dear 2pp, you guys have an amazing opportunity to do something that has never done before in great part to many unique and unrepeatable reasons.

To have the guys who pretty much invented a genre and mastered it, serendipitous reunited 20 years later to try a new shot at it, but this time with support from the entire world is an extraordinary set of circumstances that must not be ignored. We must remember that most of the time when people are actually changing the world, they don´t notice it and it´s only later that most wish to have explored and observed more of the process. After all, masterpieces can´t be measured since “in the act of tearing something apart, you lose its meaning”. Reverse engineering sometimes is not as nice as seeing it building from scratch.

As an example there´s the "The Making of Star Wars: The Definitive Story Behind the Original Film" in which, since most of the documents and interviews that it depicts were rescued from more than 30 years ago before the Star Wars phenomenon happened, you get to see the real opinions of most of the cast and crew and realize that when it was made, for most people, it was another (and sometimes plain silly) movie.

This gives the book an extraordinary perspective on not only the dreadful and chaotic processes of making that movie, many of which have become legend and gotten great glamour that has dumped the reality behind it, but on the human side of it at that precise moment in time, one that could never be replicated again. After victories some people become mythical and almost perfect, altars for examples on how to become successful and perfect, on how to “make it”. And we forget that at the end of the day, we all are human beings trying to get by. Yes, some people are genius, but fear and doubt doesn´t discriminate geniality, and if you ask me, I learned more from seeing them fail and try again and again, than the afterward clinical recollections of great successes that everybody seems to remember at the end of the day. We tend to ignore that “we are what we lost too”.

Sorry for the long post, but I feel that you have the talent and vision to capture and share this moment in time with all the humanity that it encapsulates, even for a future when we won´t be here. Please don´t pull back with the documentary. As an audience member I feel that it´s always better to have the option to watch more of it if I want to, than wanting to watch more and knowing that it´s impossible because those “moments are lost in time like tears in rain” as nobody gave them importance back then and let them out. I´m sure there will be people that will appreciate that you were there, that day, at DF making this happen. I know I Am.

I wish you the best.

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I agree that nothing should be withheld all-together for the sake of avoiding spoilers. Of course, backers who want to avoid spoilers should still be able to enjoy production videos so it does sound like a good idea to have both relatively spoiler free videos and spoilerific in-depth ones, or perhaps saving some of the juiciest material that gets into the details of production, the creation of specific puzzles and so on, for the final documentary or post-release videos. The documentary will live on long past the pre-release period of anticipation, so it would be a shame to place limitations on it for reasons that will only be relevant for a short time.

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The documentary will live on long past the pre-release period of anticipation, so it would be a shame to place limitations on it for reasons that will only be relevant for a short time.

I think that the above is a good point and I would point out, that the backers concerned about spoilers, if suitably warned, can chose not to watch the documentary until they've played the game. They cannot, however, somehow summon the content that was left out due to concern regarding spoilers.

Additionally, an important part of the development of the DFA was envisioned to be ongoing community feedback. How can that happen without real information about the content of the game in the updates?

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I sent a rather lengthy email to Paul at 2PP a couple weeks back and I didn't hear anything so I'm asking this here again: Is there any chance we can get an in depth look at the technical side of Double Fine? Networking/Hardware/Software configurations etc? I would be really interested in seeing more of this stuff since it's an essential part of game making and most other documentaries just pass over that because it's quite a nerdy topic that doesn't suit entertainment values for many people.

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If you're familiar with our work on the Penny Arcade series, it's very similar to the difference between the series episodes and the 4th panel stuff.

Cool! Great, that's exactly what I hoped it'd be.

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We understand there will be people who aren't very interested in long technical discussions

That's actually the main thing I'm interested in, so please feel free to go into as much detail as possible...

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We're currently working out what the release schedule for the documentary is going to be. Right now, we're aiming to have something ready to go in late March as the first official episode. The plan is that we'll have one fully edited "story" episode each month that condenses the lion share of what is going on at the studio. These will probably be anywhere from 10-20 minutes. Outside of these main episodes there will be additional self contained videos that offer a more in-depth view into a particular event, be it a meeting or interview.

We understand there will be people who aren't very interested in long technical discussions, so the main episodes will keep things faster and lighter. The additional content will appeal to anyone who is more interested in the nuts and bolts of what is going on. If you're familiar with our work on the Penny Arcade series, it's very similar to the difference between the series episodes and the 4th panel stuff.

We're going to be filming for the entirety of production and a little bit afterwards to get a sense of the games reception upon release. This is going to be our main focus for more then a year, and there won't be any breaks in the schedule.

Greetings by the way. We'll all be on the boards posting under the "2pp" tag if you have questions or comments, though keeping everything pertaining to us within this thread would be best for now.

Well if that's not an excellent sign of communication I don't know what is!

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there will be people who aren't very interested in long technical discussions

philistines

additional content will appeal to anyone who is more interested

yes, please

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Right now, we're aiming to have something ready to go in late March as the first official episode.

So, March is over...

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It's coming guys. I saw a rough cut of the first episode last week and it's great! There's still just a bit of work to do on the audio balance. Not too far off though!

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Right now, we're aiming to have something ready to go in late March as the first official episode.

No me gusta.

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It's coming guys. I saw a rough cut of the first episode last week and it's great! There's still just a bit of work to do on the audio balance. Not too far off though!

Working in film making and editing I have experienced first hand the headache of finding a right balance of audio between soundtrack, music, narration, main dialogue and background dialogue and with how big this project is, I felt that March was a far reach for 2PP even with full on 24/7 work.

Glad to know that they know fans are wondering though and having someone come forward to ask for a bit of patience.

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First Episode is up on KS page and it´s B E A U T I F U L ! :D

Thanks 2pp!

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yeah, just finished watching the first episode, and it's fantastic! Makes me have hope for the games industry.

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The first episode is fantastic. I love how invested Tim and his people are in this project. You can really tell how emotional Tim gets at the end when he's doing his speech by the way his voice cracks, it must be a powerful thing to realise that something he probably thought he might never get to do again is now possible.

Plus with the amount of backers being relatively modest (well, 87 thousand isn't exactly modest) and the fact that Grim Fandango sold half a million copies I think this has the potential to be a great commercial success. I'm very happy I tossed my one hundred at this project and I'll definitely be buying a copy for my mom, we used to play adventure games together when I was a kid and she was really disappointed that the genre died off.

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Not a bad first episode, music was great, the theme was fitting, ragging on the publishers is always entertaining.

Overall, not a bad job at all 2pp.

I would like it if at all possible that we become more familiar with rest of the staff as we go along thou, and get the perceptive of the underlings for lack of a better word.

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