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Weapon/Emplacement DPS Comparison

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I've been doing some serious testing. Especially since there's so much speculation about flak vs. archies, spurts vs. hyper snipers, lasers, etc.

Granted, my results probably aren't 100% accurate, but I'd say the margin of error is 1-5% at the most. Relying on a stop-watch isn't ideal, but any slight error in percentages or damage per second values should be so minimal they really aren't significant. I also made sure to repeat the testing of every weapon several times to get consistent results. The point is, these values should be real close, if not accurate.

Weapons

The way I measured the weapons DPS is by timing the cycle of a weapon's clip from the second I pulled the trigger until the clip emptied and it was ready to fire again (reload time is an important factor in DPS). Then I just plugged in the damage per shot and clip size and did the math. Another thing worth mentioning (so you're not confused) is that the DPS listed is per weapon slot. In other words, the overall DPS of a 2-slot weapon has been divided by 2, and a 3-slot weapons have been divided by 3. That makes comparing effectiveness between 1/2/3 slot weapons is easier. Also, weapon damage is arranged based on damage to a single target, not groups. Annotations for pierce and explosive splash are listed. I didn't think there was a point in listing weapons that aren't used very often, so I stuck with some of the more popular ones for now. If there's a weapon I missed that you think needs to be analyzed a little closer, let me know!

Fiesta Muerta: 88.76

Hole Puncher: 78.26 (+ splash)

Sod Off: 75.42

Faster Blaster: 56.33

Topiary Trimmer: 55.55

Spud Slinger: 56 (+ splash)

Duke: 51.42 (+ splash)

Massive Magnet Launcher: ~45 (+ cluster/splash)

Perforator: 38.12 (up to 114.36 with pierce)

Hyper Sniper: 39.5

Spurt Rifle: 37.74

Albert: 33.96 (up to 169.8 with pierce+)

Boomerang: 22.72 (up to 35.71 with quickload)

Ripper: 15.62 (1.6 Scrap per Second)

Interestingly enough, Perforators seem to have one of the highest achievable damage per second ratings based on the ability to pierce up to five enemies. I'm not sure if the Hole Puncher is a contender or not, because I don't know how many targets a Hole Puncher can hit at once. It's also pretty interesting to see just how low on the chart the Boomerang is (despite it being the hardest hitting artillery). Something with Cluster or MIRV probably has a higher DPS, but I have no idea how to go about measuring the effects.

Weapon Damage Comparison Chart

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApFpKLB7rgy_dDl4aVNlWkJsbnZoZzBweVZfWUkyWGc

Emplacements

Aside from flak emplacements, I was able to get an accurate DPS (damage per second) and ROF (rate of fire) value on most other major emplacement types. I skipped Mines and Mortars because the Mortar results didn't seem consistent enough to make any conclusions, and Mines are generally a "one shot" deal.

I did the testing using the first Arty that comes out on wave 2 of hospital survival. I started by placing a knockback shotgun right where he makes his stand. From there I counted how many hits he took, and how long it took him to go down. I then repeated with pierce sniper turrets...counted the hits and time. I then repeated using two shredders (multiplying the time I logged by 2...I had to use two shredders because the next wave usually started before the Arty would go down with only one). Then I used a laser turret, and logged the time it took him to go down. Between the shotgun and sniper results, I was able to narrow down Arty's health to approximately 800 (somewhere between 791 and 832). With Arty's approximate health, and the time it took him to go down, I was able to figure out the ROF of both the Shredder and the Laser. I'm not going to bore you with the math, so let's get straight to the results:

Knockback Shotguns

Rate of Fire: 0.5 shots per second, or one shot every two seconds

Fully upgraded DPS: 245.5

Pierce Snipers

Rate of Fire: 0.2 shots per second, or one shot every five seconds

Fully upgraded DPS: 106.4

(I know I don't have them listed, but I think Ironclad Snipers have a DPS of around 112...pretty insignificant difference)

Lasers

Rate of Fire: 1 (I can confirm that it does the EXACT listed damage per second)

Fully upgraded DPS: 71

Super Shredders

Rate of Fire: 7.5 shots per second

Fully upgraded DPS: 49.5

Lt. Archies

Rate of Fire: 1 shot per second

Fully upgraded DPS: 108

Ironclad Flak

Rate of Fire: either 5 or 7.5 shots per second

Fully upgraded DPS: either 95 or 142.5

The only two emplacements I'm not 100% sure of is the two Flak emplacements. There's no real constant to compare data with. If a volt dropper stayed absolutely still in the sky, and let the emplacement consistently shoot at it, it'd be easy to answer...but that obviously can't happen. The Lt. Archies are a little easier to figure out because you can almost determine their rate of fire visually, which I've concluded is pretty darn close to 1 shot per second. The Ironclad, on the other hand shoots at a rate either equivalent to the Topiary Trimmer (5 shots per second) or the Super Shredder (7.5 shots per second)...or maybe even somewhere inbetween. It's certainly not equivalent to a trench's single slot machine gun fire (10 shots per second). Since the Ironclad is supposedly more effective on volt droppers than the Lt. Archie, it's either one of two reasons (or both): The Archie misses occasionally. Or, the Ironclad fires at a rate of 7.5 shots per second, which would give it a DPS of 142.5.

Emplacement Damage Comparison Chart

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApFpKLB7rgy_dFczcGxZQ09Dejg2ZzlzR191ZmRCbFE

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Best. Ever. I love you.

These DPS charts are something I consider invaluable on any game, this one ESPECIALLY.

I didn't think the perforator would be so high o-o Might have to make a change from 2 alberts on woodruff to 4 perfs and sprint legs! As long as I can get the right hits that might be superior ... :3

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Well, I do run with Woodruff and 4 perfs with sprint+ legs occasionally. Its actually pretty fun (other than looking cool like some X-wing thingy) :P

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Funny, I used to think differently of perferators. I loaded up the Karlsson last night with 6 fiestas and it KILLED the VD. If you stand on the spire on settlement you can get maximum 8-9 shots on him with those shotguns while he's circling.

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Funny, I used to think differently of perferators. I loaded up the Karlsson last night with 6 fiestas and it KILLED the VD. If you stand on the spire on settlement you can get maximum 8-9 shots on him with those shotguns while he's circling.

that I did know. 6 Fiestas is just overpowered as hell in the early waves.

I KNEW that they would be high on the list, BUT MY CELESTIA! Highest non-pierce? Sweetness :3

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Yeah, the perfs were definitely the biggest surprise to me. It'll take twice as long to gun down a single enemy, but you'll take down a cluster of four or more twice as fast. Definitely a niche weapon. Probably best suited for getting large groups of jacobs off amps, and clearing a couple jacobs out from a pile of resistors/tommies/bursts.

I loaded up the Karlsson last night with 6 fiestas and it KILLED the VD. If you stand on the spire on settlement you can get maximum 8-9 shots on him with those shotguns while he's circling.

LOL. I love running this setup. The funny thing is, the last couple times I've done it I've had people on the boat saying things like "why does this guy have six shotguns? he needs to use artillery"

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Yeah, the perfs were definitely the biggest surprise to me. It'll take twice as long to gun down a single enemy, but you'll take down a cluster of four or more twice as fast. Definitely a niche weapon. Probably best suited for getting large groups of jacobs off amps, and clearing a couple jacobs out from a pile of resistors/tommies/bursts.
I loaded up the Karlsson last night with 6 fiestas and it KILLED the VD. If you stand on the spire on settlement you can get maximum 8-9 shots on him with those shotguns while he's circling.

LOL. I love running this setup. The funny thing is, the last couple times I've done it I've had people on the boat saying things like "why does this guy have six shotguns? he needs to use artillery"

I know that feeling x3 So many people complaining non-stop saying 'Throw some Boomerangs on!' and the like. No. No I do not want the boomerang of all weapons x3

Course I fell into that category like 2 days after the DLC came out. I saw someone running 6 fiestas and I said "Why not run pancakes or something actually useful? Why so many shotguns!"

Oh me. How did I not read into the weapon before complaining x3

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Oh me. How did I not read into the weapon before complaining x3

Numbers are deceptive. Obviously 375 damage is better than 108 :P

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There was another thread done by someone using the same method and your numbers are very close to his which is always a good thing when it comes to proving accuracy.

The hole puncher DPS seems way off though. Does it have a much higher rate of fire than the other shotguns?

I too have done some DPS testing although I was much lazier about it and didn't have stop watch handy. The way I would do it is with the pylon. I would see how long it took to wipe out its first life bar with constant fire and reloads. This is all in all a less accurate way to judge the DPS and it only provides relative numbers but my rankings are very similar to yours. I think I had the SOD as a tiny bit ahead of the fiesta 6 for instance but the numbers were to close to really be certain.

The perferator is a great little gun. It just lacks range. I used to think poorly of the people running machine guns X 6 until this neat little gun came out.

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There was another thread done by someone using the same method and your numbers are very close to his which is always a good thing when it comes to proving accuracy.

The hole puncher DPS seems way off though. Does it have a much higher rate of fire than the other shotguns?

Sweet. Where? Somewhere on the forum?

Yep. Hole Puncher has a 4.7 second clip cycle compared to the Fiesta's 7.1 cycle, each with six rounds per clip. The Links to the spreadsheets cover clip cycles too if you want to check 'em out.

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There was another thread done by someone using the same method and your numbers are very close to his which is always a good thing when it comes to proving accuracy.

The hole puncher DPS seems way off though. Does it have a much higher rate of fire than the other shotguns?

Sweet. Where? Somewhere on the forum?

Yep. Hole Puncher has a 4.7 second clip cycle compared to the Fiesta's 7.1 cycle, each with six rounds per clip. The Links to the spreadsheets cover clip cycles too if you want to check 'em out.

Very cool I had always assumed it had regular shotgun times on it but it doesn't which makes it much more vicious. Thanks for your research and yes I will find you a link to the DPS thread, You can basically derive most of the new weapons dps rates from comparing them to the older ones in this thread so long as they have the same clip sizes and fire rates. For instance I knew the fiesta can be scaled to the brenak's.

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http://www.doublefine.com/forums/viewthread/5260/

Here is the link to the older thread. There is a lot of useful info there.

From what I can tell the fire rate on the regular flak emplacements is identical to or very close to that of the super shredders. I placed them side by side and watched them very closely firing against flying tubes over the course of about 3 or 4 runs through a campaign map with lots of fliers. I would just sit there staring at them while my base got lit up. lol

Another surprisingly effective gun as far as DPS goes is the Duke grenade launcher due to its double sized clip.

I am going to test out the archie and ironclad in real world conditions again now that I have some spare time this afternoon. I think that the archie is prone to missing fast moving targets. It is the only thing that could account for such a difference in efficacy. Either that or my single test had some wild variable thrown in that I didn't notice like a change in the VD path.

It was interesting to see that the perferator does beat the albert in DPS. In my rather sloppy tests it was the other way around just barely but this was due to my methodology. When firing against the pylon the reloads do get added into the equation but not evenly. In other words say you have two identical guns as far as real DPS goes even though their dmg, clip size and reload times are all different. One of the guns can kill the pylon while reloading twice exactly. The other gun can't quite do it in two clips and thus must reload a third time in order to fire a few more shots to finish it off. Even though both guns have the exact same DPS in my testing the gun that was unlucky and needed to reload an extra time for a couple of more shots will come out as the loser. It won't throw the numbers off by much but it does show the flaw in this lazy method of testing.

I believe the differences in your numbers vs the other guy's from the older thread is due to the fudge factor caused by human error in timing things. For instance you tend to find all sniper's to have lower DPS rates relative to the other guys work and all machines guns to have higher ones although both are very close. I think you will find if you look at the numbers the reason for this is that you both have a slightly different amount of time for how long it takes to reload these weapon types, My own sloppy testing suggests that the snipers fair a bit better vs the machine guns in dps as well. Very nice work btw.

I hate to nit pick such excellent work, but just a heads up. The perferator only has pierce rather than pierce +. I'm not sure how many less enemies you can hit with it for this reason but I have noticed with big crowds that the bullets don't seem to go as deep as with say an albert.

In particularly, thank you for timing the archie. I had no good information this weapons dps at all. I couldn't test it using the pylon for obvious reasons.

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Thanks for the link. Checked it out, and it looks like we came to some very similar conclusions. The only real difference I noticed is that he rounded by .5 on all his values...and it seems like he measured the clip cycles a little differently (separating the time it takes to fire all rounds with the time it takes to reload...then adding them together). I timed the clip cycle from first bullet to the end of the reload cycle in order to try to minimize differences in time, so I never actually figured out the actual reload times. They're still pretty close, though. I'm wondering whether the values really are rounded by 0.5. I tested each weapon a good 5+ times and thought the numbers I came up with were as accurate as possible. But I am human.

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Yeah, the perfs were definitely the biggest surprise to me. It'll take twice as long to gun down a single enemy, but you'll take down a cluster of four or more twice as fast. Definitely a niche weapon. Probably best suited for getting large groups of jacobs off amps, and clearing a couple jacobs out from a pile of resistors/tommies/bursts.
I loaded up the Karlsson last night with 6 fiestas and it KILLED the VD. If you stand on the spire on settlement you can get maximum 8-9 shots on him with those shotguns while he's circling.

LOL. I love running this setup. The funny thing is, the last couple times I've done it I've had people on the boat saying things like "why does this guy have six shotguns? he needs to use artillery"

I have loved the fiesta shotguns ever since I figured out they shoot 200 meters. I always knew they were up at or near the very top for single target dps but I always dismissed them as trash until I tried them and saw that they fire almost 3 times as far as what's listed.

It's too bad the artillery didn't really get any great updates this time around. The boomerang is alright but I still think Mr. Pancakes is the best of the three slots.

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Thanks for the link. Checked it out, and it looks like we came to some very similar conclusions. The only real difference I noticed is that he rounded by .5 on all his values...and it seems like he measured the clip cycles a little differently (separating the time it takes to fire all rounds with the time it takes to reload...then adding them together). I timed the clip cycle from first bullet to the end of the reload cycle in order to try to minimize differences in time, so I never actually figured out the actual reload times. They're still pretty close, though. I'm wondering whether the values really are rounded by 0.5. I tested each weapon a good 5+ times and thought the numbers I came up with were as accurate as possible. But I am human.

It sounds like your methodology is the more sound of the two so I would go with your numbers over the older guys work and of course over mine. I never really planned on my testing to give exact answers but rather to give me very good estimates.

Thanks again for all the work you put into this.

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No prob. I enjoyed gathering the numbers. I just thought of a more solid way to get weapon values, I think. Instead of finding the most consistent results between five+ separate timings, I'm going to try timing five straight clip cycles in one go, then divide the time by 5. That should pretty much diminish the margin of error almost entirely. I'll probably end up doing this in the next day or so :)

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See, this is exactly why I like being involved with this forum. For us to get together and essentially butt fuck the next DLC with science

Plus it keeps my IB friendlist full cause this guy <--- is random teammates free since '93

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No prob. I enjoyed gathering the numbers. I just thought of a more solid way to get weapon values, I think. Instead of finding the most consistent results between five+ separate timings, I'm going to try timing five straight clip cycles in one go, then divide the time by 5. That should pretty much diminish the margin of error almost entirely. I'll probably end up doing this in the next day or so :)

Excellent idea.

I did some more "real world" testing on the flak and lasers vs the Volt Dropper and the poor ol' Archie really isn't looking so good these days. The laser even beat him.

It's too bad the hole puncher has such awful range. I do play with them sometimes but the range limitations drive me absolutely nuts.

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I updated a few of the weapon DPS values based on the new clip cycle timing method. Most of the updates weren't that significant. The perforators dropped around 3.875 DPS, but that was the most drastic change within the figures.

Something interesting. I tried running a test on the Massive Magnet launcher by taking individual shots on Arty on the second wave of Hospital (knowing Arty is around 800 health). Arty ALWAYS went down on either the 7th or 8th grenade. That means the actual damage dealt is 100+, and not the listed value of 32. With that in mind, the DPS per slot on the Massive Magnet Launcher is somewhere around 45.

As requested, I also tested and added the Duke.

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That sounds about right on the massive magnet launcher. I've tested that one on pylon and it was pretty close to where the hyper sniper is in DPS. Their times were very close. I think they are listing the damage for the main shells rather than the clusters. The clusters are where all the dmg in that weapon is. I love that little grenade launcher. The duke is quite decent too for dps and your numbers reflect it. Thanks for testing it.

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Thought I'd do a little testing on another gun that seems to be a popular choice these days: The Ripper

The DPS of a Ripper is right around 15.62...that means 6 Rippers on a Karlsson is only slightly better than a single Muerta. This test isn't about DPS, though. It's about SPS (Scrap per Second).

After about a dozen individual tests, I discovered one Ripper yields about 1.6 SPS (It's not very exact...but all the numbers point towards 1.6 being average). 6 Rippers then yield around 9.6 SPS. If that scrap is divided equally among 4 people, that's 2.4 SPS. In real world terms, that translates to 3 different engineers being able to each plant a new sniper emplacement after 33 seconds of fire from the Karlsson.

Or, with two Karlssons with Rippers, it translates to 2 different engineers being able to each plant a new sniper emplacement after 16 seconds...which is the equivalent of planting 4 sniper emplacements after 33 seconds.

Crazy, right?

I also tried doing a little testing with the Super Shredder emplacement. It seems like the default emplacement yields around 0.8 SPS, and upgraded once yields around 1.2 SPS. I haven't really figured out the best way to test it while it's maxed out, though.

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Now that's nice to know :3

I'd hate to find out it only feels like I'm making a good return on 6 rippers xD

Thanks for this~

(Did the forum fart or something? I can't view my profile/change avatar/topics are missing/posts amiss!)

(AND MY SIG CHANGED -.- Did it roll back or something? That warning on read only is back to.)

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I'm pretty sure something happened to the forum during all the transitions they've been doing...and they had to revert to a backup of the database.

I did this test because I ended up playing a game with randoms last night where we had two Karlssons with Rippers, one Karlsson with some crazy setup (the only one without a mic), and one Engineer with Sniper Emplacements. By wave 40, we had fully upgraded Sniper Turrets everywhere! It was pretty awesome.

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Why have we never played together? I've seen you on the ship a few times, but you usually don't stick around. Maybe I have a higher tolerance for randoms with weird loadouts ;)

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My tolerance comes and goes with my mood (I do recall seeing you xD).

Sometimes I could care less, I'll run whatever since they are obviously running whatever, other times I just want to get passed 15 at least -.-

Playing now with some randoms -.-

Let's just say 2 piercing snipers set up so far, about a hundred Archies and 10 or so lasers.

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Ahhhhh so the Karlsson vs Woodroof debate continues. Which is the most scrap efficient assuming the Karlsson is equipped with dual Alberts and shredders.

Gotta pull them triggers though

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Maybe I should play the game instead of doing all this testing ;)

The mystical Carpet Bomber. All bark and no bite?

This is such an interesting weapon, and after some testing, it may have some purpose after all if it's used right. The DPS of a single Carpet bomber is 26.74 (per slot is 13.37). Pretty low. Lower than Rippers, even. But this is without quickload legs. I'll test it again with quickload legs, but for now, the initial DPS isn't the focus.

Turns out the "charge" doesn't affect the targeted tube at all, but rather all the tubes within range...and the charge itself does approximately 16-18 DPS to those tubes. I found this by determining the health of the Burst Transmitters that came out on wave 2 of hospital...shooting one, and timing how long the other took to go down. I did the same thing with the earliest Breakers (since they have more health). It took almost a whole minute, but one of the Breakers finally went down...and the results still pointed to around a 16-18 DPS.

So if you're continuously targeting 1 tube with a second tube nearby, you're doing 26.74 DPS + 16 DPS (I'll use the lowest number just for the sake of the illustration). That's 42.74 DPS (21.37 DPS per Slot). Still not that great, right?

Here's where it get's interesting.

The multiplier appears to drastically increase with every new tube charged.

I tried this out with the 3 early Breakers on Hospital. Instead of just shooting one over and over, and waiting for the other two to die, I took turns shooting each one. Evidence pointed towards the "charges" overlapping, because all three died a whole lot faster. If the charges really do overlap, this gun is a serious contender for damage.

For example, let's say we have four later level Burst Transmitters making their way out of the conduit. The moment you shoot one, you're doing 26.74 DPS. Then the "charge" kicks in, hitting three other targets (3 x 16 DPS), which is an extra 48 DPS. The next time you shoot a new target, you're you're adding another 48 DPS. And so on. After four shots to each of the four Burst Transmitters, you're dealing 26.74 + 48 + 48 + 48 + 48 DPS.

That's 218.74 DPS (109.37 DPS per Slot).

That's assuming the trench doesn't have quickload legs, and we're using the lowest DPS for the charge. Also, that's only four targets. I'm sure the DPS has room to grow with each additional tube...though I'm not sure of the max range of the charge.

This is absolutely a niche weapon. I can see potential for MASSIVE damage multipliers with large groups. The larger the better. Against single targets though...extremely weak. I can see how this thing is tossed aside so quickly, though. The results are anything but immediate. It's going to take 14 seconds and 4 well placed shots before you can achieve a higher DPS than the Fiesta.

The ONLY way I can see the carpet bomber being remotely effective in comparison to other weapons is by using dual carpet bombers and quickload legs to minimize the time it takes to charge an entire group of tubes. A single Carpet Bomber without Quickload is pretty much useless.

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I WAS RIGHT!

Holy happiness x3

I ran two carpets with quickload back when they came out and argued to my fellows that it isn't the most powerful, but it's overlapping charges deal immense damage!

Yay for being right with initial guesses x3

(so many people complained that I aimed at a different target with each shot, saying I wasn't killing anything WOOT!)

*ahem* Sorry. I guessed this back when the weapon came into existance and have never completely thrown it out of my mind, so happy to see I was right and on such a high number if this is right o-o This means my quickload, alt firing stance was throwing some EPIC damage down on huge swarms x3

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