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Tim Schafer

Just how private are these things?

Just how private are these things?  

2,648 members have voted

  1. 1. Just how private are these things?

    • Super private! By logging into the Backer Forums you are signing an NDA! We paid for exclusive access!
      1989
    • Free as Butterflies with no clothes on! Let the information spread out across the world, nakedly. (except the videos)
      659


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Part of the reason I decided to back the project is because I'd have access to these private forums. It's part of the reward. I wouldn't be upset if non-backers were allowed to read these forums but IMO only backers should be able to post here. :-/

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i think all the cool super secret stuff should remain cool super secret. and then we should throw the non-backers an update on how things are going every now and then. maybe.

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I'm certainly among the minority here in my vote of let it be free.

I backed the game because it is Double Fine and I'll pay money up front for their games if it means they keep making them...always loved 'em. Even have me contemplating buying a Kinect. I know their games may be "niche" but they are always fun to play.

I personally don't care if the info leaks out (minus the videos) and will abide by whatever rules are set.

...just as long as the game gets made...

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I wonder if this has been considered at all: More than likely the guys at PC Gamer and other places who could reasonably be considered The Press have access to these forums because they too probably wanted to be a part of this and backed it.

So Double Fine, what do you usually do with The Press that gets exclusive previews on one of your upcoming games? IIRC, the practice used in those cases are called Embargoes, we aren't supposed to talk about something till a certain time and people who do get in trouble, like bad reputation no body wants to talk to you anymore kind of trouble.

Well, the same should go for us here, not like snitches get stitches but more like ... posters to this forum should have reputations for good or ill. Allow us the mechanics to give each other kudos or a slap on the wrist as someone we can trust to have a confidential for a reasonable amount of time conversation with. I hope that makes sense because I am fairly certain that leaks will happen and there will be little to nothing that can be done about it other than praising those who don't and shaming those who do.

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They had their chance to get involved.

'You have to pay the piper if you want to eat his rats' as my mother would say.

Let them never learn of our secret love.

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I think it should stay private not because we paid but because the general public can be very negative and bring spirits down....aka minecraft and project zomboid. I think the backers understood from the get go the kind of tolerance, feedback and criticism we need to make this game go forward. If it free to watch every detail, then people get upset when it doesn't go their way, you made it clear to us that the ultimate decision is up to double fine, and that how it should be. I like'd your metaphor of understanding what the player wants, not literally what they want. I can't remember where you said it, but you made a comment how if they want a powerful axe in the game, and you say that wouldn't work but see why is it they want that in the game and try to encourage that aspect. Anyways my two cents.

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Free. This idea, this process has the video game industry by the ear and the industry needs to listen. Thus I believe every step of this project will be measured and judge no matter whether these forums are under an NDA or if some information is shared with non-backers. When treading new waters like we are I don't see anything negative happening if information is leaked out here and there. I rather see the DF team focus and rally around the production of the game rather that worrying about NDA breaches.

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You could easily make an argument for either case. Though I agree that it would be rather hard to keep secrets known by nearly 90,000 people. As far as my own views go, I'd be happy either way and will follow the consensus and DF's decision with this. I just can't wait to start seeing the game unfold and get made whether it is with 90,000 or more, I'm just glad to be involved with this.

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i think you should make a fake game and put it across as the real thing to the backers so when the real ones done it'll be a big surprise.

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I bet you have already done your calculations on how much money you expect to get after the game is released from non-backers. I think that most of the people who will get the game after it is released won't be very hyped until that happens and the (hopefully) great reviews come in. They will most likely not roam the internet to find all the secret information that is released here in the backer forums.

I'm fine with the announcements being released to the public as in the end this will keep some of the non-backers who thought about backing but didn't do it interested in the game. I think the game will sell more if you send the announcements to all the game websites. If the game sells more, that means double fine has even more funds and success stories to create more games after this one.

What the non-backers don't have access to are the discussions here on the forums that hopefully will affect the game positively throughout the process. We paid to be able to form the product in at least some way.

That said, I still think it should be Double Fine that decides what information should be given to non-backers. In reality there will always be some backers who will share information and I can't see any way to really stop it. It would be a waste of Earth's resources to hunt these people down. Just focus on making the game!

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I'd say as far as the forum goes, no harm in discussing stuff with non-backers, but I think wholesale reposting of forum content should be discouraged. And I think maybe some effort should be spent on contacting the major games news outlets to please not publish every scrap of rumour or info that comes out of the process, especially at the start when everything is still being pinned down.

Well said. I lean towards the "no NDA" position simply because if I'm excited enough by something here I might want to share it, maybe even on my blog. On the other hand that probably won't happen in practice.

Regarding the videos, I'd like to suggest that 2PP sell them shortly after they are released, or at least before the game is out. This way the the people who didn't manage to get in would still be able to follow them, and they'd pay more so us backers will feel like we got a good deal.

Moreover, DF and company should not feel beholden to calls to Kick It Forward, etc. Just because "good will" was rained upon DF, doesn't mean that they are beholden to anything beyond the original scope of the Kickstarter fundraiser.

Not really relevant to this topic, but I figured it's worth a reply. Nobody is ever beholden to do good deeds (well, in theory, at least). People do them because they're nice. DF is a nice company and I can imagine it following such an idea, and I don't think it needs to be stopped from doing that. It's DF's money to do what it wants with, and I'm sure it won't follow it in a way that would jeopardise to company.

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I would prefer this information be kept quiet-ish. Being a backer,, I'd like to be privy to the information during it's development. Closer to release, sure.. all that can go. At the same time though, I can't help but be excited for the project. So while I voted "Keep it quiet", I'm really preferring a "Keep it quiet, please" approach.

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Let's look at this problem from a different perspective. Schafer is crazy enough to attempt two impossible things.

1. Making a better game than his earlier games!

2. Stop information from leaking to the internet.

I'd like him to focus on the former, that's why I voted "Free".

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Free. This idea, this process has the video game industry by the ear and the industry needs to listen. Thus I believe every step of this project will be measured and judge no matter whether these forums are under an NDA or if some information is shared with non-backers. When treading new waters like we are I don't see anything negative happening if information is leaked out here and there. I rather see the DF team focus and rally around the production of the game rather that worrying about NDA breaches.

I completely support this man's goal, but I think we can make everyone happy:

Why not treat it like a DVD bonus feature? With DVD Extras you don't get to see them in the movie theater, but only when the DVD is shipped.

You can placate (most) people. DF could make a public announcement to the rest of the forum/internet that once the game has gone gold and shipped, that the backer forums will be made available for public viewing (but not posting). That would let everyone see what the process was like, while still honoring the promise of being special that some backers have taken very seriously. It'll let everyone feel special for being part of it, while being incredibly transparent for non-backers in the end.

Overall, I'm just looking forward to contributing to the conversation.

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To be honest I voted before I read Tim's post. Now I've read it, I'm not entirely sure what I've voted on. What exactly does, "But what about the info in the forums?" mean? Are we talking major announcements? Concept art? Discussions? What?

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Personally I have no opinion, I would like to be able to show and talk with my non-contributor friends about the video updates and behind the scenes stuff. But at the same time they didn't contribute, so nuts to them :D

I'll go with whatever is decided, heck if you want I'll sign an NDA and mail it to you. Wouldn't be the first time :P But if Double Fine is all cool and happy for me to talk about stuff elsewhere there's only a select group of friends who are interested anyway. But like I said, if they'd contributed they would be here so it's their loss :)

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True, but the backer part should remain private and the Double Fine team could release some public stuff now and then. That way its balanced i think.

Agreed. =) Super Private

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Although I think it should probably be free, as I don't see a reason for potential buyers to be snobbed, I can't help but feel that I like the idea of being part of an exclusive club (despite the fact that a club of almost 90000 isn't really all that exclusive). So I vote stay private, as I think that my contribution allows me to be a little selfish on this matter. That still doesn't mean that I think any feedback from non backers should be ignored though.

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Well, I'm here just for the inside look of a game being developed - to see how the industry works. The flow of information is not a major concern for me, but I can see how it can positively (or negatively) affect the process especially if a leak about a fundamental part of the game occurs. Just for discipline's sake, I'd say "keep it private" but I would appreciate a list of things that are off sharing limits and things we can spread around. We are all eager and well-meaning, definitely, but not PR-wise.

Videos is one thing that's clear enough, but what about concept art or official announcements?

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I would appreciate a list of things that are off sharing limits and things we can spread around. We are all eager and well-meaning, definitely, but not PR-wise.

Seconded! Just because it's a good idea.

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Even though I voted "SUPAR DUPAR EXCLUSIVE PRIVATE PARTYYYY", I don't think full super-secret status is the way to go. As a backer, I would like to be able to see / know what is going on before the rest of the world, but don't think keeping everything from people who weren't able to back (for whatever reason) is the way to go.

I'm all for backers getting the first updates and news, and maybe a week later the bigger milestones and news is released publicly. Leaks will happen, of course, no sense in pretending they won't, but I think the backer community will enjoy the feeling of being involved in knowing early and knowing some exclusive things that aren't / weren't released publicly.

After all, we made this happen! :D

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My opinion is that there's always a difference between throwing the lightning and hearing the thunder. Sure there will be leaks, but even if they are, the ones who are throwing the lightning bolts of input into the game development is us backers, and the non-backers can sit back and whine about the thunder they're hearing all they want until they get hit by the electricity of ....

You know I think I've run that metaphor into the ground.

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Assume the information is going to get out anyway (it is), but should we at least attempt for some privacy? The backers came into this with some expectation of exclusive, insider, etc. as part of the back. My opinion - let what leaks leak out of our sandbox.

BUT, how private does DF plan to keep it? Seems like I can't turn my head without Tim pimping it in some interview and/or video.

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I personally think that we should keep it private anyway, some news will eventually leak out from some backers but that's not a big harm since people who really do care are backers in the first place.

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I'm going to have to agree with a lot of people and vote for Super Private, but with occasional updates for for the general public. We, as backers, paid for the privilege of getting exclusive information about the game's development, so we still need that kind of stuff to stick to our own eyeballs for the most part. That being said, it wouldn't be a bad idea to put out an advertising kit for backers to use on other forums and outlets. Heck, maybe we could make our own (with Double Fine approval, of course.) That way we can give back even more to the project while getting word of the game out to the general public. Plus, an occasional info dump for the masses on the main Double Fine page sounds good, too.

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Just here to agree with those people who are for keeping it private except for periodical project updates meant to maintain non-backer interest in the project alive!

Besides, people here are bound to leak out certain information anyway, and some of it will probably slip by DF, depending on how well concealed it is... Non-backers should at least have to search for it. Make it so, if they can get it, at least they are showing true interest! xD

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Stuff's gonna get out regardless but there is something to be said for leaked announcements. They generate more hype than official ones because of the scandalous secrecy that surrounds them.

I think that everything announced, privately or publicly, should be on the forums as a baseline as backers would expect the whole story delivered direct. I would expect Double Fine to make some public announcements here and there to keep non-backer hype up and trust their discretion on what should and shouldn't be made public. The backers should know directly in any case and assume anything posted here is secret unless officially made public.

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