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Julica Knegt

Dampening generator fields

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I'm confused. Do overlapping dampening fields cancel each other out or not? I've seen Big Willie breeze past three overlapped on the hospital bridge like he was on rollerskates. I've also seen him crawl through a gauntlet of 8-10 on that same bridge, all side-by-side, right at the spawn (not my strategy -.-)

Is there some glitch that makes it happen sometimes but not others? Do two negatives make a positive but three negatives make it a negative again? Is it when they are side-by-side along a path but not across from each other? My head is starting to hurt!

Sometimes, you need to throw one down earlier than you need it, just to reserve that spot against Random camo shotguns, but you never intended it to be fully upgraded at all in case of the cancelling factor. There's no way to stop someone who can't hear you from upgrading it. It'd be nice to know what triggers the cancel so you could plan accordingly and leave enough space.

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It's random.

As far as I can tell, whenever this happens to me it's because the exact spot I threw the dampener glitches making the game act like it were miles high or miles low despite being RIGHT. THERE.

So I occasionally throw a dampener and see everything run right passed it like it doesn't exist, but when aerials spawn they are crawling passed.

I don't think it's as simple as overlapping, I've yet to see a problem with that, I think it's the exact spot the dampener is on.

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The altitude thing is an interesting observation. There's definitely an overlapping problem, though.

I've tested them so many times on each of the three maps. All you have to do is place one that you see obviously working, and then place one nearby (closer to the conduit) and upgrade it to the point where it overlaps, and the one that originally worked doesn't anymore.

I'm guessing the "gauntlet" works like this:

OXX|XXOXX|XXO

The "O" represents dampeners that actually work. And the "X" represents dampeners that are overlapped by the first working dampener, and don't do anything. The "|" representing the reach of the working dampeners' fields. Eventually if you place enough of them, you're eventually going to get one dampener that doesn't overlap the original.

Basically giving the illusion of slowing things down the entire way, but it's not at all related to the quantity of dampeners.

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Altitude definitely plays a part in how the dampener will work. I found this out in Settlement when I had a dampener up high on one of the mushrooms, and it seemed that it was only affecting Willies/Bertha/Amplifiers and things in the air. All of the smaller ground based enemies seemed to breeze past it like it wasn't even there.

As far as the overlapping issue, I have noticed that when the dampeners are fully upgraded, that is when you will get most of the issues. When they aren't fully upgraded, the non-working issue doesn't seem to appear nearly as much. The easiest way to combat this is to learn the effective range and make sure that you don't have any dampener fields that will overlap. If they do overlap, try not to make it by much as a little overlap is fine. I also found that if you have one fully upgraded, and another near it that isn't upgraded, but still within the field of the first, that the negation issue doesn't nearly present itself as often. I know most people want to upgrade all the dampeners, but sometimes it is best not to so you won't have this issue.

(---O---)(---O---) <----No space between the effective range. Optimal, but very difficult to gauge

(---O---) (---O---) <----Small space between the effective range of the dampener is ok

(---O--(-)--O---) <----Slight overlap in the effective range. This is ok, but try to avoid if at all possible

(---(O--O)--) <----Severe overlap. This will cause the issue mentioned above

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We're pretty silly with the text visuals on this forum xD Anyway, this has been pretty frustrating for me aswell. It's quite hard to gauge the range of the DG's and place them in spots that are both effective AND don't overlap others. Plus there's the whole random people upgrading DG's that you didn't want them to thing. But you can't really keep that from happening.

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You sure a slight overlap works? I honestly don't think this is true.

The closest I've ever gotten to slowing tubes down an entire path is by ensuring none of the dampeners overlap even the slightest bit. There really has to be at least a split second of time where tubes are unaffected by dampening fields between the generators for them to work.

I've tested spots on maps over and over and over, moving dampeners millimeters at a time to figure out the most efficient spots...and the only time they seem to work perfectly is with gaps between the fields.

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I haven't tested this bug yet, but I've seen the results. There does seem to be some inconsistency to it, Not certain though.

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You sure a slight overlap works? I honestly don't think this is true.

The closest I've ever gotten to slowing tubes down an entire path is by ensuring none of the dampeners overlap even the slightest bit. There really has to be at least a split second of time where tubes are unaffected by dampening fields between the generators for them to work.

I've tested spots on maps over and over and over, moving dampeners millimeters at a time to figure out the most efficient spots...and the only time they seem to work perfectly is with gaps between the fields.

yes, I have gotten the very slightest overlap to work. It took me a long time to get it to work, but it does work. The overlap has to be small as hell, which is basically not worth the effort in the end. Usually, I just make it so that the fields are really close but not overlapping as this is a little easier to gauge for me. I am ok with the tube getting a step or two of normal speed only to slow down again. I think when they are in line with each other also, that messes them up more than staggering them. Like if you place the dampeners on different sides of the bridge staggered down and they overlap ever so slightly, then they I have noticed that they don't have the issue near as much as if I placed them all on the same side of the bridge. Of course, depending on how your other emplacements are placed, this is easier said than done. But like I said, I am like you in that I would rather them get a step and then slow down again rather than try to get it perfect as either way the issue will still happen, just not as much.

I have also noticed that the size of some enemies plays a role in them slowing down or not. I noticed that a set of dampeners that I had set up once weren't slowing a willy down, but when resistors or knobs went through the same set of dampeners, they slowed down just fine. The dampeners are truly an enigma, and it's better to be safe than sorry with them. Leave a small space in the fields and you won't go wrong.

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I believe it doesn't work as well on bigger tubes because their bodies expand out into more than one field of dampening occasionally. Right?

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Willies are the main tube I see affected by the overlap glitch but this probably because they are large and my attention is focused on them. I can't say I can remember seeing the overlap effect normal tubes before but that may just be because they die so fast and get knocked around so much anyway.

Actually I take that back. I have seen Jacobs ignore dampeners before.

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Like if you place the dampeners on different sides of the bridge staggered down and they overlap ever so slightly, then they I have noticed that they don't have the issue near as much as if I placed them all on the same side of the bridge.

...

I have also noticed that the size of some enemies plays a role in them slowing down or not. I noticed that a set of dampeners that I had set up once weren't slowing a willy down, but when resistors or knobs went through the same set of dampeners, they slowed down just fine. The dampeners are truly an enigma, and it's better to be safe than sorry with them. Leave a small space in the fields and you won't go wrong.

Yeah, but there's an explanation for both of these observations...

The following illustration is an example of staggered dampeners that don't actually overlap, but they still have a working overlapping effect.

overlap_top.jpg

The next illustration is a side view example of dampeners placed on higher ground that overlap at a high point where large tubes are affected, but don't affect smaller tubes like resistors and knobs. It also accounts for Redphienix's observation of aerials being affected by both dampeners when other tubes aren't.

overlap_side.jpg

The dampening field is obviously spherical...I really don't think they're an enigma at all. And I still don't think there's a situation where even the slightest actual overlap still works.

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Alright, well I didn't have a fancy smancy bo dancy picture to go with my thoughts, but I mentioned something similar. For example, yes those first two dampeners don't overlap, but when a Big Willie straddles the space between their fields he's now being dampened by two instead of one because of his size therefore canceling each other out, right? But a knob will not pass through unaffected because of it's size.

By the way, I'm really liking all the visual documentation now. I personally don't like expressing ideas on a forum but rather in-game.

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I personally don't like expressing ideas on a forum but rather in-game.

Don't want to give away your secrets to all and sundry? xD

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Alright, well I didn't have a fancy smancy bo dancy picture to go with my thoughts, but I mentioned something similar. For example, yes those first two dampeners don't overlap, but when a Big Willie straddles the space between their fields he's now being dampened by two instead of one because of his size therefore canceling each other out, right? But a knob will not pass through unaffected because of it's size.

By the way, I'm really liking all the visual documentation now. I personally don't like expressing ideas on a forum but rather in-game.

I just did more testing with this, and I can say for sure that it doesn't matter if they are in two fields at once. It does matter if the fields overlap though. I have found that if the dampeners are inline with the path that the tube are traveling, like the bridge on hospital, for example, then the overlap will cause the second of the two dampeners to be negated. Now if you have three fully upgraded dampeners lined up this way and they are all overlapping the same amount, then the third one will act as normal. The first dampener has priority, so to speak and will negate the second. Now, since the second is negated, then the third one is ok and will function as normal. This overlap issue only seems to happen with fully upgraded dampeners though, so if you end up accidentally negating a dampener, then you could put one right next to the negated one and it will still function so long as you don't fully upgrade it. I tested this repeatedly yesterday and earlier today, so the results I got were able to be reproduced consistently. Doing this, I did find the a consistent method for gauging range on all turrets, not just the dampeners, so that anyone could do it in their own game. It's much easier to show, so you can see just what I did, rather than type it out. I can explain it much better than trying to condense what I am saying to keep from rambling, lol. Now the staggered fields are another story altogether.

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Seems like our methods are probably a little different?

I've tested overlapping with non-upgraded and single-upgraded dampeners...and the problem still exists.

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You know what, CrackaLackN is completely right. It isn't the overlapping in and of itself that breaks them.

It really is the fact that tubes are touching two dampening fields simultaneously. It's the only explanation. The first dampener they come in contact with always works as normal, but the second dampener they touch while still in the original dampening field is negated. Meaning tubes HAVE to leave the original dampening field (even for just a split second) in order to be affected by another one.

There are several cases that prove why overlapping in and of itself isn't the issue:

The first case is right by the orange base on Settlement. If you place a fully upgraded dampener in front of the orange base, and a fully upgraded dampener behind the orange base in such a way that the fields actually overlap...they still don't break. The reason being the tubes hit the dampener behind orange, then travel around a curve, leaving the original dampening field before entering the field of the second one. The second one still works...despite the fact that it's overlapped by the first. This type of observation is usually missed out on because most of the paths we use dampeners on are pretty straight, and in those cases overlapping really is an issue.

The other case is the altitude observation. Dampeners that overlap or come close to overlapping in high places only seem to break with larger tubes, while knobs and resisters don't share that problem. Why? The smaller tubes actually leave the original field before entering the second field. The larger tubes ignore the second dampener because they're still touching the first field when they enter.

Finally, I've just tested dampeners on flat ground in such a way that there's only space for a knob to fit between fields (meaning the fields don't actually touch). The knob's enter the original field, then leave it for split second before entering the new field. Both dampeners affect and slow the knobs. But when Willie or even Resistors try to go through, the second dampener is ignored. Meaning even in the case where dampeners don't physically overlap, the second dampener in line still has no effect if the tubes are in both fields simultaneously.

I really don't see any other explanation.

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I guess we'll have to meet up someday to see what each other is talking about as far as testing goes. But to the point of tubes being in two fields at once, just at what point do you count their body as still being in one field before they are counted as being in another? Is their whole body, tail included, part of the equation, or is it just a portion? I ask this because if their whole body counts then the problem would be more pronounced and easier to track down. Even the small tubes are pretty big when you consider how much mass they truly have. At what point is a Big Willie, or a resistor, in a field versus out of it? Take Big Willie for instance. As big as he is, if you had to make a space in between the dampeners that was big enough for his whole body to fit without overlapping two dampening fields, then that would make it so that the resistors would be walking through a space that would easily be recognizable as the smaller tube would move faster for a longer amount of time than the willy would, since he was no longer in a dampening field, then slow down much later than the Willie would.

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That's a really good point. With the usual dampener spacing I use, I don't really notice the resistors racing through a portion of the trail that only allows Willie one or two quick steps. In fact, I think there's a wave that has Willie with resistors and Jacobs and they really don't seem to outpace Willie. Perhaps his tail doesn't count? Perhaps, I don't really notice with the resistors because I'm so focused on Willie?

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I honestly don't know how to tell how big willie is. I just know that if a knob can fit, there's a physical gap between fields. And if willie can't fit, he's bridging that gap. And that's enough evidence for me to know that touching two fields simultaneously is the issue.

As far as resistors go, the distance between dampeners is probably rarely noticeable because the groups in the later waves are usually pretty large. In which case resistors in front may be dampened by the second dampener while resistors in the back are still dampened by the first one...meanwhile, resistors in the middle are stuck behind the leading resistors...whether being affected by dampeners or not.

That, and no one really pays attention to resistors ;)

I've got my dampener placements near perfect for willies/berthas on all maps now, and every single one of them is separated by at least the slightest gap where he takes a brief normal step. Usually, if I move them even millimeters closer to each other they break.

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