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sanka

Open Source / Creative Common License?

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As many of the old legends are playable today thanks to open source re-implementations of the engine in the form of SCUMMVM I'm wondering if your work on the 'Kickstarter Adventure' will be open sourced after launch? And will the assets be placed under the Creative Common License which will allow touching up or adjustments for other platforms?

As I just finished "Day of the Tentacle" (finally) on my Android phone I would love the guarantee that this classic in the making will be future proof and see as many (unreleased) platforms supported as possible!

Cheers,

San

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If this is a from scratch engine write which avoids propriety licences it would be very neat if the engine got released as open source. However, I guess creative commons assets would depend on whether they intend to sell copies when it's finished since engine + assets = full game.

Personally I can't see how open sourcing the engine could really hurt though, sure they technically give away a ton of work for free, but at the same time they'll (hopefully) inspire people to create their own games and definitely receive a ton of support from developers patching bugs and adding features. Thus saving support costs and potentially rekindling interest from publishers to fund adventure games.

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It's pretty unusual to see software licensed under Creative Commons as it wasn't really created for that purpose (and copyright law is often written or interpreted differently for software).

As for being open source, it seems unlikely. But if a large enough group of backers asked for it, I suppose anything can happen.

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Personally, I'm all for opening up this new adventure. At the very least OS the engine. But, maybe only after a certain time on the market. If DF are "open" to the idea, maybe they should produce a poll here to see how people think.

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It's pretty unusual to see software licensed under Creative Commons as it wasn't really created for that purpose (and copyright law is often written or interpreted differently for software).

No it's not. In most countries copyright on software is identical to copyright on books.

The creative commons licenses were created analogue to the free software licenses created by the Free Software Foundation (e.g. GPL, LGPL) but with focus on content rather than software itself. Content you can reuse without having the source. Software, not so much. The intention of FSF is to liberate software for the end users. The intention for creative commons is to encourage "remixing" or "read-write culture".

In either case, it all depends upon the principles of copyright as established during the Berne convention.

Something you often see is free software licenses for the source code, and creative commons licenses for the content.

Anywho, it would be very nice if DF would "liberate" the game after a given period. But unless they are going to write the engine themselves, liberating might be rather complicated.

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Open-sourcing the engine will allow it to be available on different architectures. Considering it's already set to be released on the main three, it'll probably be ported to more obscure systems.

As for the assets: keep them a separate, closed license for awhile, perhaps even indefinitely. People will buy the game to get the assets, but build the engine from scratch if they want.

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Open-sourcing the engine would be a really good choice: portings, bug fixes, comunity support and help, even more love from the fans of adventure games. It would be a great choice! think about it DF ;)

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I'd love to see the source code, or get access to any creation tools they build, as least for us backers. Mod Adventure could be very sweet.

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Anywho, it would be very nice if DF would "liberate" the game after a given period. But unless they are going to write the engine themselves, liberating might be rather complicated.

It's not at all unlikely. They have a large amount of money available, and while they could license a game engine, nothing immediately comes to my mind that is particularly good for 2D (if I recall correctly they said it will likely be 2D) adventure games and also works on all the platforms they are considering.

I would love for the game to be made free (as in freedom not price) software. The founder of the movement is pretty particular about differentiating free software and open source. The free software movement also came first, and open source emerged from it.

It would take some extra work, so let's make sure they know we want it.

Edit: 2D is confirmed.

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First thing I did was look for the "Open source" thread on the forum :D

This is a comment I posted in the "Update #1" in kickstarter but it seems nobody from Double Fine saw it, so I'm pasting it back here so it gets more attention :

One question though that I think is very important. Considering that this project is funded by the community, wouldn't it make sense for the project to be open sourced, since after all, we are paying for its development ?

Having continued read-only access to a git repository (or other SCM) during development would be ideal of course, but if you only make it available after completion, that would make me happy too.

I think that having actual access to the source code during development, being able to follow commit logs, build it nightly, etc.. would make the process even more transparent and would go along nicely with the honest, transparent, in depth documentary about development that you want to make.

While the repository would be accessed through authentication for backers only, [...]

It would probably be possible to make the engine itself available through the source repository, but keep the assets of the game (levels, story, game art, voices, etc..) closed until release. This way, even if someone builds it, they can't "leak" the game. And also, it would allow the community (or even a Double Fine dev) to build fake/dummy/test levels in order to test the game engine, while still allowing us to view the progress of the code and read commit logs, etc..

For me personally, this is what I would be most interested in. I like this idea of "giving you transparency, see how a real dev team builds a product from scratch and how it evolves".. and I also hate those fake "developer interviews" which are actually marketing campaigns, so I was really excited by this kickstarter promise of 'full transparency" and I do not believe it could happen any other way than by giving access to the source code of the engine, and most importantly, being able to see the commit logs evolve at the same time as the code. It would be a great learning experience for potential developers/backers.

As for Creative Commons, I believe that if this is to be a commercial game in the future (if not, then a game exclusive to backers), then the game assets should not be open sourced. There are many open source games that use the model of having a GPL (or LGPL/BSD/MIT/etc..) engine with closed/proprietary assets and I think that it's makes the most sense.

Thanks for reading.

KaKaRoTo

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I'm pretty sure in one of the many interviews I saw with Tim Schafer from the time this project began he said that they are considering using an existing open-source 2D game engine for DFA. This would have been on either TWiT's Game On, GameSpot, or the KickStarter videos.

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Considering they are targetting multiple platforms, I think they need to write a game engine from scratch.

It makes sense to open source the code to the public after the game has been released. I don't think releasing it to backers will keep the code within the community for a particularly long time. Maybe a select beta testing team who run, say, different linux distros can help iron out some distribution specific oddities.

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I think this is a great idea. While legally we won't really own the game that way or another, since we are financing the game upfront it would make sense that we get the complete game together with the source. Double fine already has our money, so they do not have to worry that we will pirate the game so they can as well give us the complete program.

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I'm dreaming of the late '80s. If the SCUMM was open source, can you imagine how much more adventures and how much more fun there would have been back then? DF can do someting realli close to this dream today! It would be awesome!

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No need for a scratch engine. Unity can create games on all f the platforms DFA is targeting. It's not OS of course, but I dont think OS is an interesting idea.

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Unity is not an adventure game engine, si an all purpose game tool, if you want to make an adventre game with it, ou have to code all the logic for the room, for obect interaction, for dialogues and so on. That's a lot of work :)

The only usable adventure game tools i know are AGS (Commercial for commercial games) and Wintermute (LGPL, but the source code is available only on request), but both have limited platform support (basically only Wind) and they evolve extremely slowly.

I think DF will definitely make it's own engine + tools, and opensourcing them wold be a great example of giving love back :)

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Opensourcing would certainly be a nice gesture, but I'm not certain that it would be practical in a project of this cope.

They might surprise us though. It would really depend on how the project develops and the interest.

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Can easily build that stuff on Unity. As an engine, Unity brings a lot to the table. If DF wants to OS their adventure tools (a big if, IMO), they can be coded to run on the free Unity, but I'm sure DF would want to use the pro Unity for the profiler and advanced source control integration.

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If you end up creating a new engine this would do so much for the gaming community as a whole to push new adventure games to the forefront. Please, pretty please, make the engine (not source material) open source if you decide to make one from scratch. It would be a huge boon for the industry and cement DF in the adventure gaming halls of history.

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Considering they have received their money from paying customers already, they shouldn't have much concern about "loosing" money if they do this. I had only became a backer because they expanded to supporting Linux (hope they do releases on Desura) and this kind of move would be right in line with what I'd want to see come out of this Adventure.

And as some seem to have noticed, going opensource they could just "steel" from the competition and use an existing opensource engine.

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I don't particularly care what licence is used during the term of copyright monopoly. However, I'd prefer to be sure that when the monopoly expires, the work can be used and built upon by everyone. Too many companies destroy the means used to produce and modify their games and make it hard or impossible for everyone to fully experience the work once they lose their copying privilege, despite the fact that it's built on common culture and belongs to everyone. I think that neglecting the work entrusted to the monopolist and letting the last copy be destroyed before the monopoly expires should be punishable by law.

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I would love to see the engine get open sourced after some amount of time. Not immediately, but maybe after the first year or two.

It would also be awesome if they released the game free to the world once it's past its prime., or at least heavily reduced cost on Steam.

But hey, their game. I just hope they try to give back once the game is no longer a "money maker".

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It would be great if the engine was released under a free software license. I don't think that would damage Double Fine in any way, if something it would be an advantage. A community of game developers using and maintaining the engine would be great for everyone, DF included.

I hope they choose to open the source code :)

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I would like this as well, open source is always a good thing.

I'm also a linux user and supported the game because they expanded to linux as well.

Desura is also a good idea, I was hoping they would put out a linux copy along with windows and this would be a good way to do that.

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Agree with idea of open source engine. It wall allow to expend game life cycle without spending additional money.

And one more word about closed source alternative:

No need for a scratch engine. Unity can create games on all f the platforms DFA is targeting.
No, it doesn't - no Linux support at this moment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_(game_engine)#Linux

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I would really love to see, not the game, but the tools used to do it open sourced. Ubisoft was meant to do that with the Ubiart Framework and they missed an opportunity to see their framework freely upgraded for them by the community, a lot of people trained in their tools so easier to hire, and of course a needed boost PR-wise...

Besides, I'm find adventure games to be one of the easiest ways to begin game design, I know I started by making this type of games with Heroes 2 level builder for example, and having a nice dedicated tool to do it easily could start a LOT of vocations ^^

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