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Zageron

Pulling Inspiration from Cyan

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RIVEN is, without a doubt, still the greatest P&C adventure game I've ever played. The music, environments, art style, story, puzzles... The whole feel of it is just superb--I still want Cyan to magically produce a high resolution, remastered, version of the game. Ambient immersion--if I might invent a new term--at it's finest, and no more logical a place to pull inspiration from. (All in my own humble opinion, of course!)

Do you, developers, have any plans to take anything away from RIVEN for your 'double fine' production? I speak not of the puzzles, nor the world. I'm talking about the ambiance, the way the game simply draws you in and keeps you there. You forget that you're playing an obscenely low resolution game, that you have swapped CDs more times in the last few hours than you have in an entire year, that the final puzzle is painfully obvious once you solve it. (Just like MYST, haha!) No, instead of dwelling on those you are drawn into the game in a unique way that stands to why the quality of RIVEN is still superior to so many games coming out today.

This is starting to sound like a massive "I love riven, make a riven clone please", thought I swear it isn't meant to be. I believe those of you who enjoyed riven will understand what I'm trying to get across here. The story line is subtle, you discover the plot yourself, nothing is thrown in your face, you might just start not knowing who your character is, you don't know the world you're in, how big will this world be, what kind of creatures will you face?

I recall some talk that this game will be a side-scroller, with extravagantly painted art. So I do hope that both subtly and grace are used to fuse the art, story, and game-play together.

That's all from me. Don't be too hard on this riven lover. :)

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As much as I love Riven and would love more games like it, I find games like Riven and games like Tim Schafer has made to be on opposite sides of the PnC spectrum. Riven is very immersive and tactile, making me feel like I'm in the world. With Tim Schafer's games you feel at one removed from the story. You are watching the character and having the story presented to you. I think for his humor how he has made games in the past works best. I don't think one style is better than another, though. I wish that many games in both styles would be made.

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I'm afraid I'm totally the opposite (to the OP). I hated all of those Myst games. Not because of the graphics or anything but because of all of the pixel searching you had to do because one of those things the look like it's just part of the background JUST MIGHT be important. This made the myst games very frustrating for me. They were less about problem solving and more about trial and error. (though to be fair the only Myst game I ever played a lot of was the original)

In contrast, I found the adventuring in DOTT, Indiana Jones, Grim Fandango and Full Throttle much more entertaining because all of the things you could and should interact with were fairly obvious, the challenge was in working out what you needed to accomplish and how.

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This post brings up a few questions for me. Should Tim have mentioned in his pitch that he was planning to make a "3rd-person" perspective point-and-click adventure game? Are there a lot of Myst/Riven lovers out there wanting a game Tim's not going to give them? Or will Tim actually consider making a 1st-person adventure game?

That would be unexpected.

Personally, I can't stand 1st-person games. Never have been able to stomach them. It's unfortunately why I've avoided the Tex Murphy games, which I hear are quite good, and thematically, seem right up my alley. I just NEED to see my character.

Anyway, if the Riven experience is what you're wanting from this game, I'm thinking you'll be disappointed. But what do I know?

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This post brings up a few questions for me. Should Tim have mentioned in his pitch that he was planning to make a "3rd-person" perspective point-and-click adventure game? Are there a lot of Myst/Riven lovers out there wanting a game Tim's not going to give them? Or will Tim actually consider making a 1st-person adventure game?

That would be unexpected.

Personally, I can't stand 1st-person games. Never have been able to stomach them. It's unfortunately why I've avoided the Tex Murphy games, which I hear are quite good, and thematically, seem right up my alley. I just NEED to see my character.

Anyway, if the Riven experience is what you're wanting from this game, I'm thinking you'll be disappointed. But what do I know?

Yeah seriously dont put any myst crap in this game.

Thats why I hate adventure games nowadays. Many of them just put some jigsaw puzzles in it or some mechnic ones. I just want to talk people, pick up stuff, combining them and use them.

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Yeah seriously dont put any myst crap in this game.

Thats why I hate adventure games nowadays. Many of them just put some jigsaw puzzles in it or some mechnic ones. I just want to talk people, pick up stuff, combining them and use them.

Why I wouldn't call it "crap", I agree.

I want an adventure game, not a downright puzzle game where you try to solve rubik's cubes getting fed to you on a conveyor belt. And sadly, I remember the Myst games like that. I would much more prefer if the game turned out like Monkey Island or Grim Fandango.

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I got into a huge debate about this very question in the regular forums under my old username. (Reborn! Sneaky, sneaky!)

I enjoy both. I absolutely LOVE Riven, and even the seldom-talked-about Exile (Myst III). But it is a very different kind of adventuring. It's more about immersion and a lot of deduction puzzles (e.g., what if I pull this lever? Nope, that didn't do anything.. what if I push this button while I turn this whatchamajigger? Nope, still nothing... etc). Tim's games tend to be more cartoony and the brainwork involved lies more in the dialogue options and inventory items.

The common thread I see running between these two types of game, though, is that DF and Cyan both excel at world building. Similarly, when I look at a great PnC game like Amanita Design's Machinarium, so much of the thrill comes from feeling like I'm a sort of archeologist or anthropologist in that world, figuring out what things are, who the NPCs are, what things do, what the underlying grammar of that world is like. I have confidence in DF's ability to deliver an awesome game world. =]

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This post brings up a few questions for me. Should Tim have mentioned in his pitch that he was planning to make a "3rd-person" perspective point-and-click adventure game? Are there a lot of Myst/Riven lovers out there wanting a game Tim's not going to give them? Or will Tim actually consider making a 1st-person adventure game?

That would be unexpected.

Personally, I can't stand 1st-person games. Never have been able to stomach them. It's unfortunately why I've avoided the Tex Murphy games, which I hear are quite good, and thematically, seem right up my alley. I just NEED to see my character.

Anyway, if the Riven experience is what you're wanting from this game, I'm thinking you'll be disappointed. But what do I know?

You really should play the tex murphy games yeah you wont see him often but has allot of FMV where tex murphy is in the game. Also he comments on everything you click on compared to myst where you almost never even hear your character.

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Personally, I can't stand 1st-person games. Never have been able to stomach them. It's unfortunately why I've avoided the Tex Murphy games, which I hear are quite good, and thematically, seem right up my alley. I just NEED to see my character.

The Tex games have a lot more in common with LucasArts adventures than anything Cyan has done. Give them a shot anyway, they're different.

Anyway, Tim Shafer doing a Myst-like game is like U2 doing a hip hop album; There's nothing wrong with the genre, but the product's going to be better if developers stick to the kind of game they're passionate about, and for Tim, that's definitely comedy.

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The Myst series just might be my favorite, possibly on par with Broken Sword out of nostalgia. I really love the atmosphere, pacing and gameplay of most Myst games, Riven being my no.1 as well.

But that said, I agree Tim & Ron & co. are a completely different beast, and I don't see much of a crossover there. Particularly as You say, the ambiance, in my eyes is totally different. I'd love for Cyan to get on a successful Kickstarter though, and make more Myst, or something completely new, in their style.

Everybody should do their own thing.

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This post brings up a few questions for me. Should Tim have mentioned in his pitch that he was planning to make a "3rd-person" perspective point-and-click adventure game? Are there a lot of Myst/Riven lovers out there wanting a game Tim's not going to give them? Or will Tim actually consider making a 1st-person adventure game?

I hadn't played any DFA games prior to pledging, and I'm a pretty big fan of the Myst series. Still, I don't really think Tim had to spell out the fact that he was making a 3rd person P&C game. After reading through the Project Home info on KickStarter + checking out the DF home page, I felt very clear on the fact this endeavor would be nothing like Myst. Not to be at all harsh, but anyone who went to the trouble of pledging yet somehow managed to avoid reading anything at all about the actual project has only themselves to blame. Plus, I think any disappointment would be soothed away by ze fun of the actual game once it comes out.

While I like the puzzles/ambiance/immersion of Myst, I have to be in the proper mood/mindset for it. I bought the DF bundle when it went on sale and feel I can enjoy those games no matter what mood I might be in. I don't really see how the two could overlap successfully.

Lastly, 1st-person adventure games always feel a little bit "off" to me- even Myst. I feel like I should somehow have light body armor + a sniper rifle in my inventory.

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I don't really think that the style of Myst works for something Tim and Ron and co would be making. They lend their talents well more towards more active adventures than passive. If that makes sense. Riven was great (totally not the greatest P&C adventure of all time, however), but is a vastly different genre of adventure than what I'd expect from DF.

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I feel like the suggestion I wished to portray was lost under a wave of 'anti-riven style p&c game' posts. Please understand that I am aware that the games that Tim and his teams make are very different from Riven, and I would never wish him to create a game similar to it. If you would please take the time to read my OP again, I put a large emphasis on ambience and immersion. (Not game-play mechanics!!!!) I don't want a Riven clone--I said as much in hopes that it might be taken into account. What I was suggesting was a possible inspiration from the subtly of the Riven environments. Looking at Tim's old games, they are far from subtle, but who's to say that such games cannot contain subtly?

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i'm not that much into the myst saga and that type of adventure so i'll prefer a good'ole 3rd person adventure :D

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While I am a fan of 1st person adventure games, Tim Schafer & co have no experience that I know of in making such games.

This game will most certainly be comedic and cartoony, as opposed to a mystical and photo-realistic like Riven. That is presumably what everyone backed money for.

I only know of one good comedic first-person adventure game, and that is Zork: Grand Inquisitor (which was more or less a parody of Myst-like games).

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Well, the original Zork games were text adventures from way back, but Grand Inquisitor (which was made in 1997 i think) felt like it made fun of adventure game tropes and even made fun of the puzzles. Anyway, my point was that I don't know of (m)any other comedic first person adventure games.

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I've never thought of Z:GI as a parody of adventure games - it certainly pokes fun at the genre at times, but the humour is usually pretty genuine IMO. The G.U.E can be a wacky place at times.

On the topic of Riven, I exist in the annoying position of absolutely loving the game, without ever actually having made it past the earliest parts of it. Seriously, that game is freakin' hard.

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I apologize to the OP for derailing the thread. I did get things on the wrong track a bit; sorry for that.

I felt a great deal of immersion and thought there was some wonderful subtlety in Grim Fandango. Not sure if that's what you felt with Riven or what you're talking about, but I think it depends on the individual.

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The only people who should be making a MYST/RIVEN/URU like game in 2012/2013 on Rand and Ryan Miller. Except...

Holy Hell!

They already did!

http://store.steampowered.com/app/208110/

I'm been saying they should kickstarter, instead they just made it and steamed. Says on their website, GOG will have too for your no DRM flavor.

(I seriously just found this... when I looked before nothing came up... a week later? BOOM!)

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The only people who should be making a MYST/RIVEN/URU like game in 2012/2013 on Rand and Ryan Miller. Except...

Holy Hell!

They already did!

http://store.steampowered.com/app/208110/

I'm been saying they should kickstarter, instead they just made it and steamed. Says on their website, GOG will have too for your no DRM flavor.

(I seriously just found this... when I looked before nothing came up... a week later? BOOM!)

Myst V is seven years old though. I'd love it if they made another. I'd dump a ton of money into a Kickstarter for that.

Edit: Alsooooo if anyone else wanted to make a Myst-like game (not just first person puzzle solving, but the whole discovering other societies thing it had going on) I would be totally on board with that.

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Oh damn it. I thought that was Myst 4 that was a back in mid 2000's. Dur...

But, I guess if CYAN is devoted to keeping the old games alive for current PCs and iOS, the chances of a new game are still viable and marketable.

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Riven was probably one of the best games ever made but I think that Tim should stick with what he knows best: 3rd person adventure gaming (I'm almost 100% sure that this is the direction this project is going in).

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