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Aristotlol

Counter-productive proliferation of topics

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Let me start by apologising for this achingly lame post. But, as some of you may have noticed, a couple of the more lonely and idle of us have been trying in vain to keep some semblance of order on the flood of topics being posted by people who aren't checking to see if there is already a thread on their topic of choice.

Ordinarily I couldn't have more contempt for people insisting on proper 'netiquette', but presumably most or all of us are posting here in the hope that DF are paying attention to what we say. I'm not being sycophantic, right, it's not that I'm worried for precious, hallowed, sacred Double Fine. It's just that in practical terms it will make it extremely difficult for them, and any of us seriously interested in what we as a community have to say, to keep track of what we're all saying if we can't rely on people keeping all their views about a given subject to one thread about that topic.

So please, try not to needlessly multiply threads on the same or very similar topics (it's going to turn out there's already a topic on this, isn't it?). We can restrain ourselves and engage in something useful and/or interesting, or we can all just sit around unproductively venting like a bunch of drunks shouting into bins.

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So I posted a soundtrack/music thread the other night in the more public forum before these ones became accessible. Should I ask for it to me moved here or repost it?

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So please, try not to needlessly multiply threads on the same or very similar topics [...]

I agree.

I hope it's okay I created this poll; its answers are more detailed than those of this poll.

These are similar, but probably sufficiently different to justify a new thread.

[...] people who aren't checking to see if there is already a thread on their topic of choice.

Unfortunately, that will become more and more difficult, because the "Backers Only" section of this forum has only three boards, and in only two of these users can create threads.

We could use some extra boards, I think...

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Poll: What colour should the bins be?

Recycling or general waste?

Which one has better acoustics?

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I definitely agree. I spent yesterday just replying to everything, and the duplication of efforts is quite frustrating.

Still, I don't think this whole thing has really "started" yet. While some of DF may be idly checking the boards or skimming a thread or two, I think it will be obvious whenever the official discussions about the game open for business. Right now we are just hearing the garbled ambience of an excited crowd before the curtains open.

It's also a shame to "police" topic duplication largely requires the telling off of new board members, which can be an enthusiasm dampener for everyone.

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Still, I don't think this whole thing has really "started" yet. While some of DF may be idly checking the boards or skimming a thread or two, I think it will be obvious whenever the official discussions about the game open for business. Right now we are just hearing the garbled ambience of an excited crowd before the curtains open..

I think that's a great way of putting it. :)

I've seen the recurring theme of "Well I don't want to tell DF how to do their jobs so I don't see why there are so many people pushing ideas!" and I honestly think that most of the people posting ideas/opinions are just sort've buzzing excitedly in anticipation... at least I know that's true for myself. It's just fun being in a group of people who are enthusiastic about a lot of the same things you are.

That being said, I agree with the main point of this post! There are so many threads to run through, a lot of them containing very similar themes. It'd be nice if there were a bit more organization and a bit more "checking to see if it's already been done"...

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"Sticky" topics for at least 4-6 of the most repeated topics. That might catch a lot of the traffic. It'd be good to condense and collate discussions into "Music discussion thread" or "Gameplay thread" or whatever...

I think that's an excellent idea - I believe that's what they've done on the Wasteland 2 forum. As you suggest, though, it might be a liitle early for this.

It's also a shame to "police" topic duplication largely requires the telling off of new board members, which can be an enthusiasm dampener for everyone.

That's true, and important. We don't want to 'piss on anyone's chips',* as the saying goes.

We could use some extra boards, I think...

This is also a good idea - it could lead to more topics, but hopefully more specific and thus sortable ones.

Does anyone have good suggestions for broad (but not too broad) sticky topics, or board subdivisions? Gameplay, music, graphics, backward/forward-lookingness? Or practical vs theoretical? We could perhaps do with a documentary forum, too, although of course we we're promised influence over that.

*'Fries' to you colonials.

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If dealing with Steam's forums has taught me anything, it's that with a large influx of people, getting them in some semblance of control is a full time job. Yes, it'd be nice, but it isn't likely to happen as more and more people start congregating here.

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If dealing with Steam's forums has taught me anything, it's that with a large influx of people, getting them in some semblance of control is a full time job. Yes, it'd be nice, but it isn't likely to happen as more and more people start congregating here.

Anywhere else I'd happily share your fatalism, but it could make this forum pointless and frustrate our/my petty ambitions for influence over the game.

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I agree with the concerns- tons of noise will cover any important message and will scare of the majority of the people, no doubt about that.

I am not sure if making more specific boards is enough though. It sounds like a temporary solution, more or less like displaying all the topics on one page. We get some order theoretically but in fact we still don't know what people are saying, except for the loudest ones. And most of the current posts would land into "general stuff" category anyway.

I am afraid that without active administrators simply reading everything, and moving threads and channeling the energy, things will not get better on their own. Sure, it is a job for a Hercules (or few), but no one said it will be easy.

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I believe one way would be have sub-forum controlled by DF, only allow DF-folks to post new threads there. Or move important onces. And leave other forum for general discussion. Allows better snr for devs' messages. And there is still place for free discussion among backers.

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Doesn't it make sense that there will be a lot of noise at first? There's a flood of new people coming in at the same time and we're still in the process of 'exploring our surroundings'. We may just need a few days to settle down.

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Doesn't it make sense that there will be a lot of noise at first? There's a flood of new people coming in at the same time and we're still in the process of 'exploring our surroundings'. We may just need a few days to settle down.

I guess it is normal, but it would be a pity to loose the interest of some people just because they bounce off a wall of chaos on the first day and never come back.

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Some of the repetition comes from the broadness of the topics, like a thread about genre can could be easily split into the discussion of a in-depth look at specific aspects (sci-fi western, pirates, ect.) a little widening of the backer boards and a strive towards focused discussion (difficult on the internet i know) would help. but with that their should be room for silly spit-balling because this should all be about fun in the end.

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I guess it is normal, but it would be a pity to loose the interest of some people just because they bounce off a wall of chaos on the first day and never come back.
Perhaps that's just part of the process?

It's been said, but it doesn't seem like anything has actually started on the DF front. I'm sure they are (and have been) considering their options for herding the cats here on the forums. Once they're ready to start updating us and soliciting feedback, I think things will fall into a groove. (With or without some sort of learning curve.)

If folks are intimidated by (as Steve_T so eloquently and accurately described) "the garbled ambiance", I expect they'll be lured back once the Kickstarter update e-mails arrive in their inboxes.

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Not much to add here, just trying to put this thread above the copycat thread that smart-arse made. ;)

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Seriously though, I think it would help a lot in the mean time if people did four things:

1) If you see a duplicate thread, post a reply saying it is, providing a link to whichever thread(s) are relevant.

2) Once someone has posted flagging a thread as a duplicate, don't post in that thread any more.

3) If you are the one who mistakenly started the duplicate thread, rename the thread. I suggest just putting something in caps at the start of the thread title, it doesn't matter what but we should all use the same thing. Something like [DPLCT] or [DPT] or whatever.

4) If the duplicate thread already contains discussion before it's flagged, people should either repost their stuff in the original thread or put a link in the original to the duplicate, including some indication as to the extent of the discussion.

Edit: Topics in the backers forum that are duplicates of topics in the public forum need not in the first instance be considered duplicates, but they should include a link to the public thread as well.

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If I can suggest anything it's that wherever the DF team posts specific game related discussions, that in itself should be a separate board and nobody should be able to create new threads there. this kind of already exists. but it's been said and I will say it again: once the team starts posting more stuff and gets started on this adventure then the forums will shift into a groove and it should work out. but we can prepare for that by also separating out things like general discussions the community has(how the game is progressing, articles about it, stuff that may or may not pertain to the game entirely) and the specific discussions regarding aspects of the game. for exaple we could have a game specific board and sticky threads where we talk about major stuff(music, character, game design). if we do something like that then the Dev team will have an easier time sifting through the posts and discussions because they have an easier reference to some of the more major points and ideas. and as far as suggestions and idea pushing, that could be where DF posts things about the game and they can keep checking there for ideas and discussions without it getting too out of hand.

mostly this is just me brainstorming but any self policing on the part of the community would be great. I tend to look to ARG forums for a good example. a lot of things happen and a lot of multiple threads, trolls, and other riff raff exists on the forums, and we have to assume that we'll get some too. even among 80,000 backers some people will want to cause trouble and I think its up to us to help DF out by trying to keep these forums in good shape. that way they can actually talk to us and listen to our ideas.

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This is a little too much policing for a message board honestly. Especially one where people are just excited about a project they've all backed getting up off the ground and starting up.

It's not like the world will explode if two people have discussions about similar topics in two different threads.

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I <3 Dale Cooper.

But yes, I know, and like I've said before I'm ordinarily disgusted by netiquette enforcement. It's just that there's a practical purpose to these forums which is being frustrated, and yes the problem isn't really that bad now, but there's a year's development to go yet. Also, I think most of us are addressing this problem in a relatively good-humoured way, non?

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Psh. How else are we newbies supposed to get our post count to astronomical levels?! (Though I will confess to never having started a thread in my entire forumite existence. Don't seem to have the knack.)

(Also, I have no idea why I keep on talking in parentheses. What does this even MEAN?)

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I'd be surprised if existing mods don't start laying down some order. I'd assume they'd have looser forum permissions than average joe user.

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