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ThunderPeel

How much say should backers have?

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Leave it to DF. If they want our opinion, they'll take a poll. We're not investors or producers, we're kickstarter backers. The only thing owed to us is what was promised which is an insider look at an awesome project and a finished product when all is said and done. Personally, I'm really looking forward to this entire next year of updates.

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"There will be a private online community set up for the backers to discuss the project with the devs and submit their thoughts and feelings about the game's content and direction, sometimes even voting on decisions when the dev team can't decide. Backers will also have access to help test the game once a beta is available. Once the game is finished, backers will receive the completed version in the available format of their choice."

Tubusy posted part of it before, but this is exactly what was said on the kickstarter page. I don't know where some people got the idea that they'd have a heavy level of control over the game from.

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I think the idea is we spew out a cavalcade of opinions on video game design into the recepticle of the forums and the Double Fine team cherry pick the golden nuggets of a good idea from the resultant sea of bile.

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We should have all of the control! ALL OF IT!

[reads thread]

Um... that is to say, we should probably just let them do their thing. (Don't want to be in the minority here.)

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We should have all of the control! ALL OF IT!

[reads thread]

Um... that is to say, we should probably just let them do their thing. (Don't want to be in the minority here.)

Fight the power!

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We should have all of the control! ALL OF IT!

[reads thread]

Um... that is to say, we should probably just let them do their thing. (Don't want to be in the minority here.)

Fight the power!

You know what? I think I shall!

I want all the control, all the power! Cower before my feet, puny mortals! Muahahahahaha...cough...hack...ha! (Do you think I went overboard there? A little?)

Because abuse of power is fun!

Also, the entire game should feature people wearing roller-blades. Not sure why, but this would cut down on walking animations so we could have the game faster.

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"There will be a private online community set up for the backers to discuss the project with the devs and submit their thoughts and feelings about the game's content and direction, sometimes even voting on decisions when the dev team can't decide. Backers will also have access to help test the game once a beta is available. Once the game is finished, backers will receive the completed version in the available format of their choice."

Tubusy posted part of it before, but this is exactly what was said on the kickstarter page. I don't know where some people got the idea that they'd have a heavy level of control over the game from.

I think this is up to interpretation... like the Bible!

They say "discuss the project with devs and submit their thoughts and feelings..." Now does this mean just a forum to talk about the game? Or is it a platform to submit feature/art/puzzle ideas? Only time will tell. The next line "sometimes even voting on decisions when the dev team can't decide." That is evidence of some input from the community, however this could be rare. Also, it could be decisions that are not too important to the game. For example, "Should the characters shirt be Red or Green?" Or it could be very important to the atmosphere, "Which voice actor should we select to voice the female lead?"

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Agreed, I'm finding it really weird to see how some people are talking in here, it seems like as soon as the backers' forums opened a lot of folks thought 'right, let's roll up our sleeves and get started designing this game'.

When the project first started out on kickstarter, as far as I could tell the idea was to make an old school adventure game that would be funded by those interested in seeing one, without the need for a publisher, an experiment in crowd funding for game development in a genre publishers were no longer interested in supporting in any case. Since then, it seems that some people have gotten the idea that the 'experiment' is in crowd sourcing design, which is a very different things and as far as I know was never even hinted at by Double Fine. It seems counter-intuitive to be getting out from the pressure of pleasing a publisher (and therefore a few meddling executives demanding changes) only to replace that with close on 90,000 people all seemingly wanting to have their say.

As far as I can tell, the initial idea was that as backers we would have a look behind the curtain, seeing what goes into the development, and also be involved in a beta and therefore allowed to give feedback. I don't think at any point we were being offered the chance to design the game, and as many have already said, that would be a horrible idea. I can't even imagine what a train wreck we'd end up with if all of the backers had direct input into this, but the 'too many cooks', 'design by committee' and 'homer's car' references that many have made seem extremely likely.

To put it another way, I think most would agree that Tim and Ron are pretty much the best writers in the genre; that being the case, does anyone seriously believe that they're qualifed to tell these guys how they should write an adventure game?

I would like to point out that I don't think there's any problem with suggestions or ideas being thrown around in here by the way, and I'm sure that this kind of stuff will be useful for Double Fine to get an idea of the kind of things we'd like to see, or maybe in some cases even bring ideas to their attention that they may not have thought of. It just seems that some posts are starting to sound a little more like demands.

I think that Tim has been clear enough along the way but seeing the messages in here the last couple of days it might be a good idea to have a little extra clarification from the source before imaginations start running too wild; I'm a little concerned that there will be a lot of people feeling let down or getting angry further down the line if it's not spelled out pretty soon that this is Double Fine's game and we're funding it, not telling them how to do their jobs...

you all must of missed this part of the kick stater. ""There will be a private online community set up for the backers to discuss the project with the devs and submit their thoughts and feelings about the game's content and direction, sometimes even voting on decisions when the dev team can't decide. Backers will also have access to help test the game once a beta is available. Once the game is finished, backers will receive the completed version in the available format of their choice.""

its clear as day. also the line before that does say that besides what I just quoted they will be free to make whatever they so choose to. so yeah we will have some say. the main stuff though will be all from double fine. even the videos(mainly the pitch video) have said that we would give them some Ideas.

that is the whole point of these backer forums.

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You know what? I think I shall!

I want all the control, all the power! Cower before my feet, puny mortals! Muahahahahaha...cough...hack...ha! (Do you think I went overboard there? A little?)

Because abuse of power is fun!

Also, the entire game should feature people wearing roller-blades. Not sure why, but this would cut down on walking animations so we could have the game faster.

2685316021_f18c073b41_o.jpg

I for one welcome our new overlord.

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2685316021_f18c073b41_o.jpg

I for one welcome our new overlord.

Also, solar power corrupts heliocentrically! So we've got ALL the bases covered!

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Where are all the entitled posts saying that the game should include these things? I mean most of us agree that aside from discussion, idea suggestion, beta testing and the like, this game is a Double Fine game. I agree that, realistically, we will be about 3 levels above "an engaged audience" but at least we can talk to devs, suggest ideas(although nothing might come of that suggestion) and post our opinions on the different aspects of the game

So where are all the opinionated jerks who think they are game design masters and have posted what should and shouldn't be in this game already?

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So where are all the opinionated jerks who think they are game design masters and have posted what should and shouldn't be in this game already?

*Sniff* I'm TRYING here, all right? Give me a few days to hit my stride!

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I can imagine that talking to the backer base is useful at 2 types of situations.

The first being the very beginning, when doing wild and massive brainstorming to get as many ideas as possible to spark inspiration. Once that hits and sections of the game starts gelling in their minds is when they need to cut out listening to the users for the main part, have a minimal amount of people who check in regularly on the backers and their ideas, ideally not someone directly involved in the game design. For example: make someone in the office the backer/team liason, maybe give them a hat and a cookie. Their job not being to take part in the forums, as it is to generally scan the forums and keep an eye on things, and anything standout they can drop it in conversation around the office.

For the second situation is when you do want to get more opinions on something that you can't quite figure out yourself, when you stare at something for too long it can become hard to evaluate objectively and thats when you want new eyes. Even could throw some debate topics such as "how would you design X" and let us run at it. Can mix in real things you're considering and ideas that have been ditched or aren't even applicable to this game type and give us something to chew on. Of course the idea is delivered via a liason, and any ideas that make it back to the team would be thru the aforementioned liason.

Maybe when the liason has a good idea to bring up from the backers they are obligated to wear the hat, and upon delivering the idea they get a cookie. Or only if the idea brought is actually good, that way the amount of good ideas of the community can be weighed by weighing the liason.

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I think we are here to help with the impression of the games direction and art style. But that doesn't mean that we would be in control in any way. I would let Double Fine do what they do best. Games :) I am sure we'll be happy... tho, i do think that there is good info here in the forums on what they should tackle from our expectations. The 2D vs 3D is an interesting thread. Difficult choices, but i am sure that they will pick what feels right.

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Personally I would much rather like to watch them go through all the tough decisions and show us how hard it is to put a whole game together from scratch, because that will make the end product just that much more amazing knowing that it started in an office room. That being said, I think it would be witty of them to include stuff from the forums that they find funny or interesting to give a little credit to us backers.

My vote for one of the Easter eggs has to be "Shoe on head"

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If this project were to fail it would be because the developers listened to even just one suggestion from the fans. They won't though! Because they're super smart, and hopefully won't even think about these forums until they're mostly done with ideas and whatnot. That being said, these forums represent (somewhat) a collective of fans and it will be interesting to see how they use that to their advantage. If at all :D

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I think that there should be no direct influence from backers as far as the ideas in the game. What I do hope to see, though, is dialogue and developer participation on these boards just because having a conversation between fans and devs as a game moves along is a pretty cool idea.

However, it's much harder to design a game than to enjoy one, and trying to design a game based on committee (even a fan-funded committee) usually results in disaster. Tim doesn't need any help.

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None really. We paid Double Fine to make us a great game, we didn't pay them to make us a game that almost 90k want to have a say in. That can only end up as a failure.

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None seems counter intuitive to the whole sentiment of collaboration that I've felt.

Some, is a much better amount.

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I agree with the sentiment that Tim, Ron, and DF know what they're doing and don't need our help.

I agree that a game designed by committee is very likely to be just as compromised as one designed by a corporate big wig with shareholders to answer to.

But this experiment was designed with backer feedback in mind!

In addition to what's been posted from the Kickstarter description, go watch the Kickstarter pitch video. Tim says it himself at 2:28.

"But the conversation won't just be a one-way street. This is a game for adventure fans, funded by adventure fans, so we want to make it with adventure fans. You'll be able to talk back to us on an exclusive online community of people who funded the game. You'll give input on the concept art, the music, and your input will actually affect the direction the game takes. It'll be like a collaboration."

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The system they had set up for Megaman Legends 3 (before it was canned...) was a good start; basically, the audience was used to get feedback on ideas the team had had, they could suggest some things and vote but ultimately it was the team that decides.

Honestly, if I want to have ultimate input on a game, I will make it myself. =P

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None! 90,000 designers does not a good game make.

lol. This is actually a very good way to put it. If they create Polls and other things, I assume it will be in the spirit of their vision.

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My main point is a couple of posts above, but I think any discussion about how much input backers should have is just as relevant as "what color should the main character's shoes be". Once this train gets a rollin', I think DF will set the tone for what "backer feedback" means and how they'll handle it.

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Personally, I'm not in the mindset that because I put up some money for this, I should have say in it.

It's Double Fine's quirkiness and way they make games that made me a fan. I think the best way to go about it is to create a poll and if the majority chooses a certain way, it might be a good idea to listen. Other than that, I want to have little involvement in the process.

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I think ReverendTed has made a good point. All will be made clear in time... So all the bickering at this stage is wasted breath. Double Fine hasnt even started the game yet.

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I don't think anybody should expect their ideas to make it into the game but it doesn't hurt to suggest and hope. Certainly not every idea by the fans will be great but that's also not to say that they'll all be terrible either.

I trust Double Fine to make a great game and hope that they spend a little time in the forums for ideas here and there. Even if they didn't though, I still trust their judgement over mine in these things.

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We shouldn't have any say at all other than Double Fine Staff looking at the board and casually say: "That's a stupid Idea we should not do that."

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