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ThunderPeel

How much say should backers have?

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None, provided that at no time is any serious mention of the possibility of adding stealth, cover-based shooting, RTS, or timing-based platforming elements to the game made. If those are even hinted at? THEN the backers should have a say.

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Backers shouldn't have any say in actually creating anything, like many people in this thread have said, we've backed a game created by Tim Schafer and the Double Fine team. However it is cool that there'll be some interaction between the team and us, we're like a sort of test-group. I'm also assuming if they come to crossroads for instance, we might be able to vote one way or the other.

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I agree with the sentiment that Tim, Ron, and DF know what they're doing and don't need our help.

I agree that a game designed by committee is very likely to be just as compromised as one designed by a corporate big wig with shareholders to answer to.

But this experiment was designed with backer feedback in mind!

In addition to what's been posted from the Kickstarter description, go watch the Kickstarter pitch video. Tim says it himself at 2:28.

"But the conversation won't just be a one-way street. This is a game for adventure fans, funded by adventure fans, so we want to make it with adventure fans. You'll be able to talk back to us on an exclusive online community of people who funded the game. You'll give input on the concept art, the music, and your input will actually affect the direction the game takes. It'll be like a collaboration."

Feedback is one thing. A good, healthy thing but 'say' has connotations of control, which is what I believe we should avoid.

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Feedback is one thing. A good, healthy thing but 'say' has connotations of control, which is what I believe we should avoid.

Agreed, I just made a similar point (albeit much less concisely) on the 'How involved do you want to be with the development?' thread - being 'involved' is a little more ambiguous but still has connotations of control to a lot of folks.

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I think the backers should be able to give some input, but I don't think the team should be forced to use it. After all, they're the professionals here, so I'm going to trust that in the end they know best.

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I think some input is not too crazy to expect, especially with how the video was made. We don't want another runaway George Lucas.

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None with regards to the game. Limited with regards to t-shirt sizing and mailing information (no, you can not mail a smediarge sized shirt to the moon, thank you very much).

If they have input via polls for stuff, that's cool, but I'd rather see what cool stuff they can come up with then give them my crappy ideas. The extra money just enables them to be more awesome, it doesn't mean that they should now take their orders from us.

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I think it goes we're allowed to talk, and they may listen and take a few little bits and pieces, but they're the professionals, we aren't, and that should not be forgotten.

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Double Fine should just do what they think is right. Well, I do think they should read our opinions and things and base a little bit of their awesome game making powers on it, (like 5-10%) but if they don't, that's cool as well. Just make a mind-blowingly awesome adventure game. That's all I ask

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We should only be able to post feedback. Hopefully Tim and Ron will find us useful in some ways and listen to us, but all in all, they have the final say. Doesn't mean that they can't decide themselves that we might decide/vote for or even contribute to some parts of the game. It's all up to them though.

Reading the comments on the Wasteland 2 kickstarter makes me feel disgusted. I really hope Brian Fargo doesn't give in to pressure and lose control of his "ship". People are continuing to ramble on about the "core game": "No, don't do that, concentrate on the core game.". Seriously, wish they'd stop trying to hinder his creativity, or else it'll end up with this "core game" which will be a core of grey rock: solid, but boring, unaspiring and old.

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Any plea, claim or suggestion here should only be seen as a cheer to their genius.

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Once again, I'm very pleased that the people here don't want to wrestle control from DF. If you want to make an adventure game, there's plenty of opportunities out there :)

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I think we should have only very little influence. I want a game designed by Tim Schafer, not a game designed by random forum guys who couldn't design a game to save their lives.

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from the kickstarter page....

There will be a private online community set up for the backers to discuss the project with the devs and submit their thoughts and feelings about the game's content and direction, sometimes even voting on decisions when the dev team can't decide. Backers will also have access to help test the game once a beta is available. Once the game is finished, backers will receive the completed version in the available format of their choice.

I'm gonna go out on a ledge here and say yeah, we'll have some input. Not like game changing decisions or anything I don't think, but some small amount once the DF crew does their thing.

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I always got the impression that with this project, Double Fine wants us to take a bit of ownership. We're not making the game in the strictest sense, but we are collaborating, and contributing our time, thoughts, and money to make this thing happen. Obviously the awesome team at Double Fine are the artists and the ones with the experience of making these games so they should definitely be free to follow their vision and create something awesome, but if there's something that the backers want to see in the game, I think it should be in the game.

In a way, this is almost like a work of commission. We're putting down money on a work that is not finished, a work that doesn't even have a set subject matter yet, and so while the artists are free to use their style and experience to make the work their own, if we want to see something specific in the game, than I think we have the right to ask Double Fine to include it.

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From what I've read on these forums so far a game designed by us would result in a series of increasingly annoying polls.

I hope it is little input from us, I want to see what DF can do when unconstrained by publishers or anyone else.

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From what I've read on these forums so far a game designed by us would result in a series of increasingly annoying polls.

I hope it is little input from us, I want to see what DF can do when unconstrained by publishers or anyone else.

/agree

Game design in this fashion is a-lot like doctor v/ patient during surgery. The patent knows they want something done and they'll pay for it but the doc knows how to cut them open without killing them. In my opinion, this forum is going to boil down to a reaction gauge, not something the developers will consider for direct input. Basically, with our donations, we've told them we want an old school point and click graphic adventure title and we just need to tell them where it hurts at this point

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Very little - an gaming enthusiast doesn't necessarily a good game designer make (say that 5 times fast - or once drunk).

I like the occasional poll by DF to give us some 'guided' input on the game.

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If some of our ideas inspire Double Fine, great.

But if we expect to have a say then

a) this is going to take ages

b) I think it will suck because too many cooks...

Besides - and as much as I'd like to influence this process - I didn't bake a doublefine community fan project, I did bake a cool doublefine adventure. So, DoubleFine just do your thing :)

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Very little - an gaming enthusiast doesn't necessarily a good game designer make (say that 5 times fast - or once drunk).

I like the occasional poll by DF to give us some 'guided' input on the game.

agree.

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I think Double Fine should take into account our opinion on the development of the game, and we have paid for it but then make decisions wisely and do what they choose.

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None.

Other than perhaps being used as test audiences to see which of multiple possibilities we prefer.

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I was under the assumption that we would get to see stuff, tell them what we think about it, and then they would makes changes based directly on the backer feedback. I was never under the impression that they would directly cater to our whims, but react to what the community of backers is talking about as an aggregate whole.

Edit: to clarify... React and make changes if they feel it is necessary.

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I was under the assumption that we would get to see stuff, tell them what we think about it, and then they would makes changes based directly on the backer feedback. I was never under the impression that they would directly cater to our whims, but react to what the community of backers is talking about as an aggregate whole.

Edit: to clarify... React and make changes if they feel it is necessary.

That's certainly the impression I got from the Kickstarter pitch video.

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Very little. Let the experts do their job.. I figure 20+ years of experience making adventure games would be worth utilising more than a backers personal taste.

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The consensus seems to be leave them alone. Here's the idea on it's head. They should throw together a prototype in their copious spare time of a game directly voted on and see what kind of crazyness comes up. Put together a fully democratic sampler and see the insanity. Like scenes from a multiverse does in webcomic form, voting on the story. Not going to happen but really curious to see what a direct democracy of the backers here would decide upon.

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Actually, I suppose someone could take the results from all the polls and see what everyone (who's voted) here came up with...!

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None. That is, unless the community really spots the broccoli in the teeth somewhere so to speak.

Having a lot of eyes on something can help make it better. That doesn't mean all suggestions are right by any measure though, and I think it's up to Doublefine to take what comes from the community with both a grain of salt, and to look for the hidden gems.

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