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ThunderPeel

How much say should backers have?

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I agree that it's a DF game, and they should take whatever input they feel is useful. The thing I find really amusing about this is most of you guys are saying they shouldn't be told what to do WHILE trying to make your own rules about how much input the community should have. Apparently all of you who trust them to make their own game don't trust them to define how much input we're going to get when they're ready.

Either way, even if we don't get much input, I would hate to see this forum become a cheerleading board for the devs. I don't think all of the threads discussing potential aspects of the game development are out of line or useless. I think there are at least some of us here who are interested in the process of game development. We're going to learn a lot more if (in a civil manner) we can debate various design decisions amongst ourselves whether or not it's going to make an ounce of impact on what the devs are doing.

In short, I think the devs are perfectly capable of making their own decision concerning how much input backers have. If they were so insecure about their decisions that they were actually looking to this thread to figure out whether the backers should have input or not then they would not already be successful in this industry. Furthermore I think those of the people who I've seen posting in this thread or others who seem to be getting very uptight about people discussing the design of the game need to relax. If there are people who think they're going to be the new member of the dev team, they'll find out the reality soon enough. Let everyone else enjoy having some discussions about various elements of game design.

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Very little. Incorporate our feedback on things they create, but take anything we say with a grain of salt. I don't want to make a game with twenty-thousand other idiots on a forum; I want a Double Fine game, which I get to stand close to and make comments while it's being assembled.

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-I want a Double Fine game

Exactly my sentiment. While I like the idea of having a certain degree of input on particulars and setting, I think the overall direction needs to come primarily from the good people at Double Fine. I don't think having things like a contest to design small ingame items would be a bad idea, but the more important stuff (like character names, game titles) have to be under DF's authority.

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I demand the right to pick the colors of the character's nose hairs and number of pixels of length, ideally as an option in the character creation screen if not determined outright by this forum. It's this kind of feedback they need to hear!

Oh, but definitely a Double Fine Game :P

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After the debacle that is the Mass Effect forums, I'm going to go with none whatsoever.

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None. When you have 90,000+ cooks in the kitchen, you're going to have a pretty terrible meal. Any 'say' should be based on being presented with plans, ideas, images, samples, etc that DF needs/wants feedback on. And even then it should, and probably only will be used as a guide towards a final decision or choice. Otherwise you end up with what happened to planetside. You try to please everyone, you add giant robots, everyone quits.

This is a great analogy. Just imagine that you're at a nice restaurant — the cooks are in the kitchen, and you're in the dining room. You can make requests and suggestions, but what actually ends up on your plate is at the discretion of the chefs.

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None at all, if thats what Double Fine want.

If Double Fine want to read forum posts and listen to feedback, that's their choice too.

Obviously they have to know their market, but the whole point of a kickstarter project (in my opinion) is to cut out that publisher dynamic which reduces creative freedom.

If anything, we all want more creative freedom for this game, so I say, keep people's opinions on the forums and if DF wanbt to read them they can, but ultimately, they are not beholdant to anyone.

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To all the people who said `none´.

Wake up. You are making a big huge mistake.

I paid 15 dollars, so I deserve to have total control.

I want Schafer to show me whatever he has dreamt up every morning at 11 am and I have the right to dismiss it. Burn it. Piss on it. Wipe my butt with it.

After all, it's my friggin money, right?!

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I was under the assumption that we would get to see stuff, tell them what we think about it, and then they would makes changes based directly on the backer feedback. I was never under the impression that they would directly cater to our whims, but react to what the community of backers is talking about as an aggregate whole.

Edit: to clarify... React and make changes if they feel it is necessary.

Well said. You formulated it better than I could.

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After all, it's my friggin money, right?!

Not any more it isn't. When you buy a game in the store you give them your money, that makes it their money. Same thing imo.

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A little bit of say is ok. Like in terms of get unknown voice actors, help out with ideas to make puzzles fun or help with some npc's. But after that seems too far. I mean, next ppl will want to pick the ending ;)

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"A little bit of say is ok. Like in terms of get unknown voice actors, help out with ideas to make puzzles fun or help with some npc’s. But after that seems too far. I mean, next ppl will want to pick the ending wink"

Haven't you noticed the "What should the ending look like" poll ? Just kidding... but it wouldn't surprise me to see such a thread *lol*

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Why are so many people on here thinking we can actually make important decisions about the game or be a part of actually developing it? Apart from some official polls/topics on here by DF members or Betatesting we probably don't have anything to say. I don't get why everyone is thinking we're all producers of the game, because we aren't. We just paid to get some insight in the developing and have the game right when it's done. It's not like we can all decide exactly what's happening to it.

What I'm trying to say: Stop all those annoying Polls ;D

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The backers shouldn't have too much say in what the game should contain (lest we end up with The Homer), but the developers should definitely listen to what the forums don't want in the game. I think the majority of backers are adventure fans and enthusiasts, and are willing to overlook some major flaws in our favourite adventures, so when the entire forum agrees about not wanting something in the game (see the "horrible puzzles we never ever want to see in an adventure game, ever" thread for examples), changing/avoiding it would be a safe bet.

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I paid 15 dollars, so I deserve to have total control.

I hope, for your sake, you're ironic. Otherwise you might be the biggest idiot on the forum.

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I paid 15 dollars, so I deserve to have total control.

I hope, for your sake, you're ironic. Otherwise you might be the biggest idiot on the forum.

Relax, it clearly is...

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Backer input is important, but I would be inclined to agree with people who feel that all of the creative decisions should be left to DF. Listening to the audience usually yields a final product that leaves consumers with a bad aftertaste (Snakes on a Plane). On the other hand, ignoring the audience and surrendering total creative control can also have story-killing results (Jar Jar Binks). Kickstarter Backers are like investors, and they should have a voice in some things. But not all things.

It's been my observation that, as long as the people in control know what they're doing, surrendering creative control is a good thing. I'm a film person, and I often ask people if they liked 2001: A Space Odyssey. Most people say things like, "it was so slow and boring," or, "the scenes in space made me feel uncomfortable." Good. Great. Awesome. You felt what the filmmakers wanted you to feel, and the story's impact (mainly the ending) hinged upon you feeling that way. It seems counter-intuitive to, essentially, torture your audience against their will, but the story wouldn't be as effective if mankind's struggle to navigate space was not conveyed in that way. What does 2001 have to do an adventure game? Probably not much. My point is that few people would pay someone to intentionally create a product that most people would hate. Adventure games are all about the story, and leaving the story-making to the backers or audience could weaken or cripple the structure of the game.

That said, if 80k people demand the game be about a 12-armed cyborg pirate who hunts mutant squirrels on a steampunk post-apocalyptic desert planet, DF really doesn't have a much of a choice but to give in. If a creative piece claims to offer people exactly what they asked for, chances are they're willing to pay for it. Will it be good? Maybe. From what I've experienced, however, works such as that don't often make history, or leave a lasting impression. Think big-budget action blockbuster vs Oscar-winning indie film.

With this game there is a chance to make history, and set a new precedent for the video game industry. So far, this game has received a lot of attention, and it would be a shame if it turned into a wasted opportunity. If Adventure turns out to be a fantastic game, it would send the message that the gaming community can be a competitor to the big-budget-video game companies. Additionally, if Adventure has a great story, it could be used to argue that adventure games were still alive. Vincent van Gogh's works were not appreciated when he was alive, but he painted what he wanted to see the way he wanted to see it.

Throughout history, the arts have been funded by patrons/investors. So the bottom line is, someone with money is going to tell a creative person: "make this thing, make it beautiful, and do it like this." It should be up to the artist, however, to determine the best way of going about creating the piece.

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