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Wasteland 2 is already doing this on their portal website. The only difference is that it is just a pre-order for the game, and doesn't include any rewards that were associated with the Kickstarter campaign. That being said... they also aren't doing this behind the scenes thing, and getting feedback from the community to support the development which could make the game better.

Yeah... now I'm on the fence about this one too. I'll let people better than me decide this one.

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Don't get me wrong, I'm all for supporting this project further and allowing other people in, I just want to know why.

Profit.

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So they want to back DFA ?

My opinion is:

Let them in, with access to all our backer unlimited "privileges" !

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Nobody is likely to read this, given how long the thread has been going on for. Still, I have access to the "Private Kickstarter Backers-Only Area", so might as well use it :)

My personal view is that we should allow pre-orders of the game, at a higher pricepoint than what was offered during the kickstarter. It doesn't have to be that much higher, but there should be at least a nominal reason for kickstarting the next project.

Should people who preorder have access to the forums? After a lot of thought, I'd again say yes, but with an additional nominal fee.

I do think there is a principle involved here, and there will be unwanted repercussions for other non-DF kickstarter projects if that isn't taken into account.

So I'd suggest something like :

Preorder of the DF game : $20

Preorder of the DF game & access to the forums : $25

something like that.

It satisfies me that there is still something to be gained by going via kickstarter (rather than waiting until the pledge drive finishes), although obviously I'm unable to speak for anyone else in this debate.

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I've changed my mind on this a little bit. On one hand, I think the thing I was most worried about most was how the voice of the initial backers could be diminished due to uncontrollable influxes of newbies to the forum, which this sort of effect does happen in many major communities. I see forum traffic is actually pretty minimal on non announcement days, and these forums probably wont be nuts with the initial backers until they have something to play. I feel like we all could benefit from more new people to keep new and diverse discussion popping up more regularly so I feel like it would be beneficial to give people who pre ordered small windows of opportunity to join, like a day or a few days at a time to control the traffic flow keeping them fairly exclusive and then repeating this process periodically to give more people the opportunity to participate.

On the other hand, despite the fact I kind of see my initial fears may be unfounded, I still think that the Kickstarter agreement should be honoured, not for how I feel, but because this is an example to other Kickstarters, and it is important to keep that integrity, so letting us keep one of the forums as completely exclusive for some useful purpose may be a good idea.

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For what it's worth, I'd also be fine with more people getting the opportunity to back the game and join in on the fun with access to the forums, beta, and the documentary.

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That's cool with me. Everyone does pre-orders and that means more $ to make a better game.

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It's probably a little late to get my opinion in about this one, but I don't care.

I backed to get this game made, not to feel special with exclusive status. If more people want to pitch in I say great. Teach them the secret handshake and start a tab.

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I don't like this because it eliminates one of my only ways to differentiate myself from the rest of humanity. If any person can get in here, I may need to go get a meaningless tattoo or possibly start liking even worse music or something, this is a disaster for me.

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I'm okay with pre-orders. Like the decision to keep tabs on the Paypal #s. also agree with a lot of posters that should be for digital copy of the game only, not any rewards offered through Kickstarter.

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This was actually a close call for me. I get why some people are against it. We 'bought' in before the window closed but if they just take pre-orders for a digital copy, no backer would lose out on anything and no backer would be pushed to the end of the line behind pre-orders. Now, if DF intends to sell boxed hard copies of the game, I might change my mind. That ship has sailed (or should have). Same goes with the art prodcution books (and I didn't get in on one of those to my regret after seeing the first visual clips- that book has the potnetial to be really, really cool).

I'm also a realist and understand how companies work. How many times has DC or Marvel stated that an item will 'never be printed again' or 'never offered in this format again' only to do it 12, 18 months down the road. I remember years ago scraping together enough cash to buy a limited edition hardcover version of the collected Crisis on Infinite Earths. "Never to be printed again, in any collected format!" read the solicitation in big, bold italicized lietters. Well, since then, DC has offered that collection in paperback, regular hardcover and even in a hardcover Absolute edition. Doesn't make it right, and really burns me sometimes, but that's what happens.

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Don't be stupid take the extra money. This will help to do a bigger/better game. I say $15 for download and $40 for DVD case

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...I probably would have held off on putting in the money if I figured I could do it later, to be honest. But I don't regret it.

No problem here.

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This is a TRAVESTY!

First they say they only want $400,000... Then they ask for MORE!

Then they tell me I'm going to be receiving a poster. THEN THEY CHANGED THEIR MINDS AND GAVE ME A T-SHIRT AS WELL.

When will Double Fine just keep their word?!? I only backed because I thought this would be a $400,000 adventure game and that I would be getting the game, documentary and poster ONLY. Plus EXCLUSIVE access to the forums.

Now they're saying to people "if you missed out for whatever reason, we'll give you the opportunity to access the lowest tier of the Kickstarter so you can join in the community and enjoy the process with your fellow fans"?!? WHAT?!? This is creating good will! This is encouraging purchases instead of piracy! It's the PRINCIPLE, man!

Once again, THIS IS A TRAVESTY!

-----

Go for it :)

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Wow! Sarcastic and condescending at the same time! Here I thought this thread had run its course :-)

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well, i'm not offendend by giving others the opportunity to pre-order and thus support the game at all, by you guys doing an additional pay-pal round but there *must* be some kind of plus for us "being-there-"backers that made this whole thing possible in the first place.

i'm self-employed myself so i pretty much know that you guys can use (and just as well deserve) any cent that could possibly be put into this project but still, i'd rather vote for something like this:

*) 20 bucks, pre-odering only the game

*) 30-50 bucks, game and documentary

i'm sorry if this sounds harsh to some of you but i agree to some others in here that feel kind of, well, that this is going to get rid of all what was being there at kickstarter felt when when we finally reached *this goal* of making all of it all possible.

just my five cent.

-aprodigy

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Late to the topic obviously, but I gotta say after thinking about this, I am coming down pretty strong with the "this is not a good idea" opinion. The whole Kickstarter thing was based on being able to be exclusive and in on the ground floor, I want DF to make lots of money as much as anyone and sell tons of games and keep making them.

But they can't just change the rules - what I paid for and was promised was exclusive, and you can say whatever you want that I should be fair, but thats not what I was promised when I gave my money.

If I offer you an apartment and say theres gonna be 1 other person living with you, then you move in and I say well I can make a lot more money if I let anyone who wants to get in, would you be like okay, as long as your making more money.

I would argue strongly that allowing this to happen would constitute false advertising on DF part, and as much as I love them and Tim, I think that really the wrong way to go.

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If I offer you an apartment and say theres gonna be 1 other person living with you, then you move in and I say well I can make a lot more money if I let anyone who wants to get in, would you be like okay, as long as your making more money.

That situation...

... is not even mildly analogous.

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Let's see here...

What Double Fine gets: money to make the game better.

What Double Fine loses: nothing.

What we get: a better game.

What we lose: the red velvet rope.

Take the money and run I say.

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Let's see here...

What Double Fine gets: money to make the game better.

What Double Fine loses: nothing.

What we get: a better game.

What we lose: the red velvet rope.

Take the money and run I say.

This isn't true. The budget of the game will not go up at this point, it's already set.

I still think if you have a problem with more people paying to get in, you're being a horse's ass, but it doesn't really benefit us.

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Fair enough. Still wouldn't be opposed to people paying to get in though. Where's the money going?

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Is this thread not dead yet? Oh dear :)

One point (I already mentioned many times) :

The game is not exclusive. Whatever price DoubleFine decides for the preordering thingy, they can do that. Of course they will not go below the lowest reward of 15 bucks because there's no doubt that some people here would be pissed. But if it's 15 bucks for preordering a game 10 months before the official release... from a backers perspective I can't see anything wrong with that. Also they can sell the documentary for whatever price they think is right because what's exclusive to backers are the monthly video updates, not the complete documentary itself. When the documentary is completed and the development process is completed, the finished documentary obviously can go public and will be sold to whoever is interested in it for whatever price...

But as made clear many times: I'm all in for opening it all up to others and besides. And I think this board needs fresh meat ;)

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Fair enough. Still wouldn't be opposed to people paying to get in though. Where's the money going?

To wherever they are needed most within DF. This money is not needed to recover any sunk cost, and is not tied to any contractual obligation (except that they have to actually deliver a copy of the game when it's ready, so deduct the bandwidth cost for that). So it's DF:s own money to spend how they like. Which could be (partly) on this game. Even if the budget is set, development time estimates are just educated guesses. So when they reach the end of the planned development period (and thus the bottom of their budgeted moneypile), they might find that there's still some work which is needed on the game. So then they would have the choice of either cutting the problematic parts of the game, or investing some of their own money (with the assumption that this money can be recovered through sales to non-backers, an assumption that would be greatly substantiated by preorders). So while it's not correct to say that the money will go towards the development of the game, it's not correct to definitely say that none of it will either. It's all business decisions for DF to take.

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Let's see here...

What Double Fine gets: money to make the game better.

What Double Fine loses: nothing.

What we get: a better game.

What we lose: the red velvet rope.

Take the money and run I say.

This isn't true. The budget of the game will not go up at this point, it's already set.

I still think if you have a problem with more people paying to get in, you're being a horse's ass, but it doesn't really benefit us.

Well, the budget is set for now, but budgets can also change. It's true that this money is going to the Double Fine pot rather than the DFA pot, but that doesn't mean that further down the line they might not realise it would be a good idea to throw some of the extra money they have in the DF pot due to pre-orders at the DFA. If they find themselves going over-budget, for example, they'd be silly NOT to.

Edit: oh, I guess Marcus already said all that.

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Hello, Adventure Backers!

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this idea of using PayPal to let latecomers support the project. Judging by the polls in other threads, the majority opinion is that we should open it up to late supporters (or "Slacker Backers," if you will), but the concerns raised by those opposed to the idea are valid as well.

All things considered, I think opening up the PayPal method now will be good for the project, as long as we handle it in a way that is true to the spirit of our original Kickstarter promise (i.e. keep the forums exclusive to supporters of the project). If we keep it simple and only open up the $15 tier, that means that all of the physical rewards will still be exclusive to the original kickstarter backers. So there will still be items like the t-shirt, poster, and the big box that will only ever be available to you awesome people who made the March 13 deadline.

So I think this is what scientists call a "win-win." I hope those of you who disagree with this decision at least know that our intention is always to do what is best for the project and the backers, in the most transparent way possible.

This news and other questions are discussed in out new video update over here.

Hope you enjoy it!

-Tim

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But Tim, what I'm asking is if a woodchuck could chuck and would chuck some amount of wood, what amount of a wood would a woodchuck chuck?

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