Jump to content
Double Fine Action Forums
Sign in to follow this  
DF Oliver

Programming Update #1

Recommended Posts

What was the reason behind building a brand new engine instead of using something out there that could basically fulfill the needs you described?

I don't think Oliver said we decided to create an engine from scratch ;)

But I'm saying too much. We'll have a follow up post on this subject and related questions later this week. Stay tuned!

If I was a betting man I would bet on you using the Unity game engine as it the best fit for your needs. Oh well I'll find out later this week if on this one rare occasion I'm right.

As a Unity developer, Unity is great, but doesn't fit all the criteria, the sticking point is Linux. The only way that Unity is supported on Linux is if you build to the web player and check Native Client for Chrome. I doubt Double Fine would find this a viable option for Linux release.

Kieren

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sorry if this has been brought up earlier in the thread, but will you be releasing modding tools, or will I have to reverse engineer all your file formats?

The topic of open sourcing the code, allowing mods, etc. is a topic we're still discussing. We'll have more to say on it later, probably nearer the end of the project once the tech/tools/platforms/etc are more fully baked. Know that it's always in the back of our minds, though.

PS - awesome avatar, Toad King. Joe Montanna Football (with Sports Talk!) was one of the first games I got for my Sega Genesis (the first console my folks let me buy). Such a classic, especially sacking the QB (or punt returner) hard enough to get him carried off on a stretcher :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PS - awesome avatar, Toad King. Joe Montanna Football (with Sports Talk!) was one of the first games I got for my Sega Genesis (the first console my folks let me buy). Such a classic, especially sacking the QB (or punt returner) hard enough to get him carried off on a stretcher :)

Glad you like it! My friend introduced me to it one night and we did a Detroit v. Detroit game. Must have been half a dozen injuries and many more 50+ yard touchdowns, because the defensive line had cement shoes or something. But it was bad form to actually get the touchdown, because then you missed Joe going "GREAT PLAY!" and giving you a thumbs up. It's pretty much one of the best sports game I've ever played.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What was the reason behind building a brand new engine instead of using something out there that could basically fulfill the needs you described?

I don't think Oliver said we decided to create an engine from scratch ;)

But I'm saying too much. We'll have a follow up post on this subject and related questions later this week. Stay tuned!

If I was a betting man I would bet on you using the Unity game engine as it the best fit for your needs. Oh well I'll find out later this week if on this one rare occasion I'm right.

As a Unity developer, Unity is great, but doesn't fit all the criteria, the sticking point is Linux. The only way that Unity is supported on Linux is if you build to the web player and check Native Client for Chrome. I doubt Double Fine would find this a viable option for Linux release.

Kieren

I forgot about Linux. It's a pity Linux isn't supported as Unity already supports two nix based operating systems (Mac and Android. Although Android uses a virtual machine layer for it's programs).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay that's it for now. I hope you found this post interesting. Please feel free to ask questions. Next time I'll talk a little bit more about the technological foundation of the project, so stay tuned for that.

Ill add my thanks Oliver. Just the kind of post/update I was hoping to see. As far as I am concerned, there is no such thing as 'too geeky' in how much you can insight you can share on your work. Look forward to the next update!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
how much tooling do you guys tend to do either a) when using an existing engine or b) when using a custom one? I pretty much jumped straight in on the tooling here because I didn’t want to do things like fudging about variables like co-ordinates for pivots in a text editor or IDE.

We spend as much time as we can on tools, but it's never enough. On BL we spent quite a lot of early time on tools since we were building everything from scratch. When we split into the original four AF teams, we were spread really thin and spent relatively little time on tools (pretty much just what programmers could sneak in). Since then we've been able to carve out more time for regular tools updates, and as Oliver said a significant chunk of DFA's pre-production programming will be on a good editing framework

Also, what IDE do you tend to use?

For C++ we mostly use Visual Studio for C++ (though some use emacs or vi for the text entry bit). For Lua we use Decoda or a text editor of choice. Many folks like things like SciTE, Crimson, etc. For games level editing, it's all custom in-house editor tech.

Heh, that's really good to know because so far I'm still tooling and I was really wondering if I'd be better off giving myself a time limit on it, but I think I know where my goals are set with regards to it and also it's making me consider lots of the problems without seeing them as an obstacle to what I'm actually trying to achieve.

I was hoping vi was going to get mentioned in there somewhere ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What was the reason behind building a brand new engine instead of using something out there that could basically fulfill the needs you described?

I don't think Oliver said we decided to create an engine from scratch ;)

But I'm saying too much. We'll have a follow up post on this subject and related questions later this week. Stay tuned!

id-tech 1 :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I found this interesting. It even had me wanting to play the game engine just to poke around and see how games are played from an early development cycle. Maybe for a future update you can talk about the process of applying actual game data into the game engine and the problems that ensue because of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oliver rules! I am a huge fan of multi-planing and I know Oliver is going to rock the tech needed to create the beautiful visual look that DF are going for. Can't wait to watch this progress!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know I'm a little late (somehow I wound up in the Discussion And Feedback forum thinking it was where this sort of stuff was going to end up), but I wanted to say thanks for the post, Oliver. Like some others, I'm a programmer who's working on a small game, and insights into how others go about tackling problems is really valuable and thought provoking :)

Can't wait for the next update.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Same here. Awesome work, Oliver and Co! Can't wait to see more!

Also, I think it's totally worth it to spend lots of time with the game engine. It's quite likely it will be used again (and perfected even more) for future DF games!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@DF Oliver

great to see al this, do you create any kind of uml shema or other technical documents to help you program?

could you post a snipped of a design document if you have any, just to get a feel for the amount or lack of detail.

how will a conversations system work? database related, xml files? can you explain a bit of the setup in high level

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

interesting stuff, cant wait to hear more about the adventures of red robot dude in his paralaxing world of various rooms

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DF Oliver

Why Lua instead of Python?

Regarding the hypothetical pixel mode: can't it simply be emulated by reducing color depth to 16 bits and changing the image size back and forth?

I tried it with the image by DF Lee found http://www.doublefine.com/forums/viewthread/6738/ and the result, while not perfect, didn't look that bad.

While I love pixel goodness, in the end I still preferred the original image.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DF Oliver

Why Lua instead of Python?

Regarding the hypothetical pixel mode: can't it simply be emulated by reducing color depth to 16 bits and changing the image size back and forth?

I tried it with the image by DF Lee found http://www.doublefine.com/forums/viewthread/6738/ and the result, while not perfect, didn't look that bad.

While I love pixel goodness, in the end I still preferred the original image.

I believe two of the reasons are stability and small overhead

Smaller overhead: Python comes with a lot of libraries that probably are not needed in a game whereas Lua provides the minimum required to control your application.

Also I believe that Lua is more stable, since Python is going through a transition state from Python 2.x to Python 3.x whereas Lua hasn't gone though any major revisions in ages.

I never programmed in Lua, so most probably I am missing something :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DF Oliver

Why Lua instead of Python?

Regarding the hypothetical pixel mode: can't it simply be emulated by reducing color depth to 16 bits and changing the image size back and forth?

I tried it with the image by DF Lee found http://www.doublefine.com/forums/viewthread/6738/ and the result, while not perfect, didn't look that bad.

While I love pixel goodness, in the end I still preferred the original image.

I think Lua has a smaller footprint than Python and plays nicer in an embedded environment. Python comes with more overhead and can be a pain to embed in a project. This is especially important considering the fact that they are targeting the mobile devices.

Kieren

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I wrote a tutorial on parallax in a HTML+js context—for those interested in odd maths and art workflow as it relates to a parallaxy thing... a thing that parallaxes... the Parallaxer™.

Dude, I loved Hobo Lobo! Good work!

Thanks! I hope you will continue to love it as I continue to (painfully slowly) work on it—what with it not being done and all… :-P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks! I hope you will continue to love it as I continue to (painfully slowly) work on it—what with it not being done and all… :-P

Impressive as hell. I loved it!

The panel vs. page # labels confused for a moment but this is very nicely done!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I wrote a tutorial on parallax in a HTML+js context—for those interested in odd maths and art workflow as it relates to a parallaxy thing... a thing that parallaxes... the Parallaxer™.

Dude, I loved Hobo Lobo! Good work!

Thanks! I hope you will continue to love it as I continue to (painfully slowly) work on it—what with it not being done and all… :-P

If you made a point and click adventure and then published it on Steam, I'd pay for it...

Just sayin'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's looking great!

As a programmer, I look forward for as much details as possible of the design process and tech details of the engine.

Keep it up Oliver!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am dumb!

Reading the posts here makes me sad.

Truth is always hard... Now I go crying into my pillow...

Back to topic:

How long did you need for the prototype? (dont say "two days!")

How many people worked on it? (dont say "me alone in two days")

Thanks and

Haste toll gemacht!

:-P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...