Jump to content
Double Fine Action Forums
Sign in to follow this  
DF Oliver

Programming Update #1

Recommended Posts

Thanks a lot for these updates, Oliver! A couple of questions for you, if that is okay:

1) What language are you developing in? C++?

2) Are you using openGL? DirectX? Something else entirely?

1) I will talk about this a little bit more in the next update, but I can already tell you that there is a lot of C++ and Lua involved.

2) OpenGL is the better choice for us, since all of the platforms we want to run on support it fully.

Thanks for the questions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thank you for the information, DF Oliver! Great and interesting read. Looks like you got the preliminary work done very quickly. Looks like it'll be a giant "Placeholder" type of demo. Will this demo also feature "Dialogue Puzzles", as Ron Gilbert calls them?

Keep up the great work, and cannot wait until your next update on your custom engine design!

That is in fact something I'm working on right now. A good dialog/conversation system is very important for a adventure game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Conversations between different characters should be authorable as simple linear sequences, in order to achieve fast iteration times.

hi oliver thanks for the post and heads up! is the above a cheeky jab at geeky tech talk or actual info? I cant even tell anymore =) what does it mean please, for daft people like me. does it mean that the engine should be able to interpret regular text documents as dynamic dialog? or what?

Pretty much. We haven't fully defined the data format yet, but it will most likely be a text file. Of course it is quite possible that this will need to be converted into a slightly more efficient representation for in-game usage though. The important thing is that Tim can easily write new and interesting dialog.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi, pretty cool stuff and I also would like to know what language and suite you are using to create the engine.

Also right now you are at the "displaying stuff" (that is the technical term) stage right? Things like verb coins or whatever interface this will use come later?

Also I seem to be having problems seeing images in the site, all I can see is something about registering the domain in image-shack, so if you could upload the image to somewhere else it would be grand since I really would like to see the images, thanks.

Sorry about the problem with Image Shack. We will look into another solution and please let us know if you find a fix.

As far as your question goes you are correct. We are in a super early stage right now, so getting something on screen is the highest priority. Once the basic stuff works we'll look into things like the UI.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DF Oliver, thanks for the update! It's going to be pretty awesome to see the early beginnings of this game. Pretty awesome that Double Fine is making their own engine instead of licensing one. Can't wait to hear more!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm... Redbot t-shirts would be awesome indeed! :-)

Laura, where do I sign up to order a RedBot t-shirt?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Let me point out that Oliver had everything you see in that screenshot working in 1 day.

Big Deal! It took us only 8 hours to fund the game.

Well, in truth, you just dialed up the awesomeness of this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really exciting to view this, thanks for sharing!

I personaly hope that the DFA will be a human adventure, not a robot adventure ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very happy to see this! This is exactly the sort of thing I was hoping to learn about by supporting this project, thank you :)

I don't suppose you have pictures of your whiteboard drawings / plotting session do you? Those might be interesting to see, if just to look at the thought process that led to what you have now and where you are planning to go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the post, it's great to get these little bits of insight.

Redbot Adventure looks appropriately nihilistic, I approve. Side Project! :P

Sorry about the problem with Image Shack. We will look into another solution and please let us know if you find a fix.

Imgur > Image Shack.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Go to the Image Shack site and make an account there, is free, takes a few seconds and you don’t even have to host anything.

Thanks a lot that fixed it.

Sorry about the problem with Image Shack. We will look into another solution and please let us know if you find a fix.

Arenegeth already gave me the solution, just log in to imageshack and then you can see the images, so all kudos to him.

Also now that I can see the image I now get what all the fuzz about the engine being 3d is, If I'm not mistaken the pyramids and most probably the robot were made in 3D and then rendered as an image, right? So it would still be 2D... or kinda, since you said you are rendering to a polygon so the difference between 2D and 3D is blurry.

If I'm right what program did you use, Maya, 3Ds Max, Blender or other? I'm partial to Maya myself but it's always cool to see what 3D programs are being used to actually develop games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Heeey!!

Programmer art!! It's been long time hehehee Although it's quite good for programmer art hehe And you got to love a red robot looking for its next adventure.. just a bit smaller than Big Whoop I know I konw, but hey! it's bigger than a moustache! hehehe ;)

Anyway... I have thought you would use a multiplataform engine like unity or directly an adventure engine (visionary, wme... or any other commercial/open source) and customise it, than do it from scratch..... hehe just dont obscure it too much so the scummvm people can inverse engineering it when DFA become a classic, in like 15 years :P

I programmed something like a NDS adv. engine a few years ago, but I didnt complete it, usable but for lua scripting... and you have to hate A*, at last I did my own my pathfinding for better speed hehe ... so anyway i'm eager to see how a professional engine should be done :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the update!

One thing about these engines has always puzzled me. What process is used to make the 2D backgrounds from the artists line up with the hidden 3D environment used in the engine for movement, collision, and perspective (making the character smaller/bigger as he walks away/closer) ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks a lot for these updates, Oliver! A couple of questions for you, if that is okay:

1) What language are you developing in? C++?

2) Are you using openGL? DirectX? Something else entirely?

1) I will talk about this a little bit more in the next update, but I can already tell you that there is a lot of C++ and Lua involved.

2) OpenGL is the better choice for us, since all of the platforms we want to run on support it fully.

Thanks for the questions.

Being a programmer myself, I'm very much looking forward to your next update!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also now that I can see the image I now get what all the fuzz about the engine being 3d is, If I'm not mistaken the pyramids and most probably the robot were made in 3D and then rendered as an image, right? So it would still be 2D... or kinda, since you said you are rendering to a polygon so the difference between 2D and 3D is blurry.

If I'm right what program did you use, Maya, 3Ds Max, Blender or other? I'm partial to Maya myself but it's always cool to see what 3D programs are being used to actually develop games.

Yep it's all 2D. The pyramids are basically just one big image and even Redbot is just a collection of sprites. You are correct I did use Maya to create all the artwork. After modelling the stuff I rendered it out into PNG and plugged it into the game.

So no real 3D, which means there is no depth buffer and no perspective projection.

I hope that cleared things up a bit. :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks for the update!

One thing about these engines has always puzzled me. What process is used to make the 2D backgrounds from the artists line up with the hidden 3D environment used in the engine for movement, collision, and perspective (making the character smaller/bigger as he walks away/closer) ?

There is no hidden 3D environment really. We can give the impression of a perspective projection by scaling Redbot when he 'walks into the distance'.

Even the collision (aka walkable areas) will be defined as 2D polygons, but since they are created based on the scene it looks like the environment has depth.

Does that make sense at all?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's so cool to see it really happening! It's like watching the onset of an avalanche, amazing avalanche that is. With robots. And beards.

A thousand thanks for answering all the questions here, DF Oliver. I guess it's a very good system of work: do everything in one day and spend the rest of the week talking with the backers :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(sorry for my bad english :/ )

Hi an THANK YOU for that! :)

This is really the most interesting stuff for me since it will be a while for the DFA to get finished.

I'm looking forward to see more of this "red robot adventure" (RRA?)!

it would be really great if you could share some more specific and technical informations and what the plans are for future use... it would be great for fanadventure-programmers if they could use this Engine... some kind of modding, etc. :)

thumbs up! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would have thought you would put everything in 3d space. Doesn't mean it can't be rendered as billboards, but I would think 3d positioning would be easier. (Not easier to program, but maybe easier to create rooms/scenes).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks for the update!

One thing about these engines has always puzzled me. What process is used to make the 2D backgrounds from the artists line up with the hidden 3D environment used in the engine for movement, collision, and perspective (making the character smaller/bigger as he walks away/closer) ?

There is no hidden 3D environment really. We can give the impression of a perspective projection by scaling Redbot when he 'walks into the distance'.

Even the collision (aka walkable areas) will be defined as 2D polygons, but since they are created based on the scene it looks like the environment has depth.

Does that make sense at all?

It does, thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So no real 3D, which means there is no depth buffer and no perspective projection.

:(

I hope a little of z-buffering, because I am getting bored to death with "artificial" depth layer in my adventure games. It always looks and is used same in every single game. At least Depth Buffer would make DOF, culling more natural and interesting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now we're talking, programmer art... ;O)

So it seems like you're building an adventure engine on your own. Do you also write the game/render engine on your own or will you rely on certain middleware/libraries? And why did you decide against complete cross platform solutions available on the market already? Not that i'm against building things from scratch and keeping it focused this way but engines like Unity could have saved quite some time for the cross platform aspects and you could have added all the adventure related bits as well. On the other side, the less complex the render engine is, the more it's reasonable building it on your own as well. Will the engine be available for the public as well? And a number of questions more...

Tststs, Polygone verwenden und dann noch Depth of Field/Foreground Blur einbauen, reine Absicht um die Leute zu verwirren! :o)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Oliver,

For the sake of cross platform-ness, and seeing that you only need 2D sprites, did you consider using some HTML5 technologies and make this a browser based game?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi Oliver,

For the sake of cross platform-ness, and seeing that you only need 2D sprites, did you consider using some HTML5 technologies and make this a browser based game?

I don't think I've ever seen a big budget browser game in my dear life. It just won't work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There do no exist sprites anymore, these days are over, all a GPU understands are polygons, and a rectangle/quad consists of two triangles.

As for HTML-5, i don't think so, as utalising HTML-5 would mean that reliable and great performing HTML-5, maybe also WebGL engines must be running on each platform and that the engine code would be Javascript and freely available. Secondly the sound aspects of HTML-5 are horrible if you're hitting them enough and depending on the browser Canvas can have a number of issues.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is so tremendous to see behind the curtain for foundational steps like this. Hey, it's not even just a peek behind the curtain, the guy who is doing the work is holding a Q&A during the process! That is incredibly cool.

It looks how I imagined. It seems like the best kind of framework to showcase beautiful 2D art while keeping to budget. That's absolutely integral IMO. I want every individual graphical element to get all the care and attention it needs, and I want it to show. I feel like on a practical level 3D elements could threaten that a little too easily.

Great job Oliver, thank you very much. I cannot wait to see this come together and watch it tie in with all the other elements. I feel privileged. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice! Also a programmer here, but of browser-based applications, not games. So I have no idea of how the process works for a game, apart from knowing it's different to what I do. It'll be great to see as it goes along - it's something I wasn't necessarily expecting in this level of detail. Impressive that you knocked that up inside a day as well. :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

taumel and raphier, check out the chrome app store online and see.. Bastion, Angry birds, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
taumel and raphier, check out the chrome app store online and see.. Bastion, Angry birds, etc.

Those both games are running on Chromes Native Client SDK, a compiled browser plugin, which is limited to Chrome only. Angry Birds has A HTML5 version. But it is too highy optimized for Chrome, for best performance. In other words due huge imparity in browsers, only Chrome is considered as the only viable game environment at this moment. Stand alone games again do not need to be run as plugins, but may converse straightly with the OS libraries, which is why first and foremost all major game releases, are standalone applications.

I know html5 is cool kids stuff, but not necessary a valid option for a game of this magnitude.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...