Jump to content
Double Fine Action Forums
Sign in to follow this  
Marilyn John

documentary download

Recommended Posts

hey there.

thought I'd ask (tried to search the forum but too many hits on other subjects got me off track). will there be / is there a way to download the monthly documentary episodes (+ sidequest) as video files to my computer, instead of streaming them? would be nice to be able to put them on a usb to watch on my TV. as I can't find any displayport->hdmi cables longer than 5 meters I have no other way of doing that (if not watching through dvi without sound, which would be stupid). also, it would be much more convenient overall to just store them on the harddrive for future use and mobility and such etcetera bla bla. anyone with me?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The series will be available for download after all the episodes are out. I think this has been addressed in other threads already, but there are numerous reasons why we don't want to be releasing downloads until the end.

Privacy // Project information is meant to stay private to the Kickstarter and forums during the campaign. We know this is a fairly impossible task but we are keeping our eye on leaks and how they are being used. Making HQ downloads available now would make it much easier to distribute the material outside the campaign.

Quality // The videos are currently uploaded at 720p which is a step down from the master quality of the 1080 videos. The videos offered at the end for download will be in 1080. Sitting on the 1080 versions adds a little protection to the value of the final released versions since we can be sure no one else will have them available.

Consistency // By the end of the series we may still go back and make subtle changes to the videos. This would most likely be things like color and audio tweaks, but we would still rather not have multiple versions of the same video floating around confusing people.

Distribution // We've received a few inquires about distributing the content online and on television after the series is finished. We still havent settled on a distribution platform, and considering the size of the files we would want to have something in place that wouldn't rack up substantial costs. It will be much easier for us to make an arrangement when the full body of work is complete and we know exactly how much data we'll be dealing with.

We apologize for any inconvenience this is causing. With a little bit of research you can find ways to save the videos on your own, we would just ask you please not distribute them afterwards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Privacy // Project information is meant to stay private to the Kickstarter and forums during the campaign. We know this is a fairly impossible task but we are keeping our eye on leaks and how they are being used. Making HQ downloads available now would make it much easier to distribute the material outside the campaign.

Well said, you are undergoing an impossible task. No DRM measure conceived so far has worked out in the end, the only thing it did was hurt the loyal paying customers. Watching these videos in a browser using flash is a stuttering, low-fi experience. I'd compare it to what paying customers of DRM infested games have to endure. On a project that was funded by the community to begin with, this is unacceptable.

Quality // The videos are currently uploaded at 720p which is a step down from the master quality of the 1080 videos. The videos offered at the end for download will be in 1080. Sitting on the 1080 versions adds a little protection to the value of the final released versions since we can be sure no one else will have them available.

Aren't these exactly the videos that I payed more money to see in the first place? Isn't the whole point of this documentary to follow the creation of the game as it happens, yet the videos are being withheld until everything is over? How is this accordable with the "mission" of this project?

Consistency // By the end of the series we may still go back and make subtle changes to the videos. This would most likely be things like color and audio tweaks, but we would still rather not have multiple versions of the same video floating around confusing people.

Confuse people? This project will even lead to multiple versions of the whole game floating around once the beta period kicks in. That's the whole point of it. The people who backed this are hardcore gaming nerds, they want information overload, they want to see "how the sausage is made".

Apart from that, I don't see why this requires to withhold the 1080p version.

Distribution // We've received a few inquires about distributing the content online and on television after the series is finished. We still havent settled on a distribution platform, and considering the size of the files we would want to have something in place that wouldn't rack up substantial costs. It will be much easier for us to make an arrangement when the full body of work is complete and we know exactly how much data we'll be dealing with.

How about crowdsourcing the distribution? A private bittorrent tracker only accessible to backers where users give their own bandwidth to help distribution.

Apart from that, I strongly oppose the idea that the money I donated to the project could be used to pay for a distribution platform that imposes DRM measures and limits access to the videos. That would be like digging my own grave.

We apologize for any inconvenience this is causing. With a little bit of research you can find ways to save the videos on your own, we would just ask you please not distribute them afterwards.

If the videos were funded by someone else and I was just a plain viewer watching them for free, this argument would make sense. But since I funded it in the first place, I don't t see why I should accept any inconvenience at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Surely there must be a way to find some middle ground here.

While I think the tone of igor's post is a bit too harsh, he does have a point.

With a little bit of research you can find ways to save the videos on your own, we would just ask you please not distribute them afterwards.

It's a bit weird that igor would have to "find ways to save the videos" in order to watch them properly.

I know how to rip them and your comment makes me feel like helping igor out by ripping them and making them available for download.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure what the fuss is about. If you paid $30 or above and assumed that would get you a download of the documentary as it's released, that seems like an understandable mistake and it would have been nice if the wording was clearer, but since it's trivially simple to download the videos anyway if you really need to, it doesn't seem like much of a problem.

Making the full HD video download only available at the end seems like a sensible way to ensure that people who specifically paid $30 or above for the HD download option get to enjoy that as an extra, rather than the full HD version of each episode inevitably being downloaded by the $15 backers as well as soon as it's posted.

(Note: I'm not saying how you'd go about downloading the videos and I'm not encouraging it, but I am saying that if there's a legitimate technical reason you need to, then it's very, very easy.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They are two private companies, both (and us too, I think) make an investment in their future. And they have obviously the necessity to sell and/or preserve their work. They are however giving us all they promised and even a lot more, so..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[...], but since it's trivially simple to download the videos anyway if you really need to, [...]

Trivially simple for whom, exactly?

Maybe you can just explain igor and others how to do it in this thread, then the problem is solved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[...], but since it's trivially simple to download the videos anyway if you really need to, [...]

Trivially simple for whom, exactly?

Maybe you can just explain igor and others how to do it in this thread, then the problem is solved.

Er, I'm a pretty new visitor to the forum, and you'd like me to post detailed instructions on how to circumvent the measures in place to prevent the downloading of video files, when a possible outcome is that I might then be banned or restricted from accessing the Backer's Forum? That might not happen, I don't know. But I'm not prepared to risk it, and I'd quite like to be able to join in with discussions for the next year or however long.

It's trivially simple for anybody with access to Google and about twenty seconds of spare time, frankly. If the documentary team haven't publically provided a method to do so, then I don't intend to either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just downloading the vimeo videos doesn't make the compression artifacts go away. They are still bitrate-starved in order to ensure better streaming for users with slower connections and far from what I'd call "high quality". Video resolution alone isn't everything when it comes to video quality just as megapixels aren't everything that matters for cameras.

However, this whole project is funded by the community and Double Fine and 2 Player Productions should answer not to me personally but the community as a whole. The responses in this thread indicate that most users are pleased by the 2 MBit/sec 720p videos and don't mind the limitations imposed by the current distribution approach, so apparently 2PP are on the right path.

If everyone else is at peace with this, I shall troll no more :zip:

EDIT: To add some positive feedback: I think that the content, the filming and the editing of the first two videos are great. Both of them managed to get under my skin and I'm sad when I think that a high quality version of the bitrate-starved video I'm watching is sitting somewhere on a harddrive, but no one gets to see it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[...] answer not to me personally but the community as a whole.

You're not alone though.

Some users dislike watching the videos in front of their computers:

- - - - -

User Rudiger wrote: "That kind of sucks, I didn’t really want to watch the doco in front of a computer."

User Kosikutioner wrote: "I’d like to watch them on my TV instead of computer."

User wjbaker wrote: "Screen capturing the video at 720, exporting to iTunes and then streaming via an Apple TV is no fun." and "I think the true value of these videos is not viewing them once the project is over but while it’s happening."

- - - - -

Others have had problems streaming the content:

- - - - -

User ric wrote: "too bad you cant fast forward through vimeo. My internet died at the last two mins :/ "

Mr Nutt wrote: "Also I’d like to know too, I can’t seem to watch it without the video stopping (and not loading) and me having to start it again."

User dangermouse_nz wrote: "I’m so looking forward to getting home to watch this [because] I wasn’t able to watch the livestream on kickstarter, because I live in New Zealand, and the streaming was so slow and buggy it kept cutting out."

- - - - -

[...] you'd like me to post detailed instructions on how to circumvent the measures in place to prevent the downloading of video files [...] But I'm not prepared to risk it, [...]

While I understand your response, would you agree that Levering's comment(s) make the situation unnecessarily complex?

He wrote that "with a little bit of research you can find ways to save the videos on your own".

Theoretically, there are people out there who: 1. are unable to find ways to save the video, and 2. are unable to watch them properly without downloads.

You and I (and others) are able to save the videos.

Can we only help ourselves and not our neighbors, our community?

Is it forbidden to share certain knowledge?

These are rhetorical questions, to point out what kind of situation we're in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
While I understand your response, would you agree that Levering's comment(s) make the situation unnecessarily complex?

He wrote that "with a little bit of research you can find ways to save the videos on your own".

Theoretically, there are people out there who: 1. are unable to find ways to save the video, and 2. are unable to watch them properly without downloads.

You and I (and others) are able to save the videos.

Can we only help ourselves and not our neighbors, our community?

Is it forbidden to share certain knowledge?

Come on, we're all adventure gamers here. See it as a puzzle people and you'll figure it out.

Hint: one way of doing this 'research' consists of using two words on a box. ;)

.

I personally find Levering's explanations perfectly satisfying. When this is all done I will happily add my complains to those of people that would be even a little inconvenienced because of potential poor choices from DF and 2PP. Until then however I do sympathize with and support their efforts to protect their unfinished work and I'm willing to compromise and be a little inconvenienced.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Making the full HD video download only available at the end seems like a sensible way to ensure that people who specifically paid $30 or above for the HD download option get to enjoy that as an extra, rather than the full HD version of each episode inevitably being downloaded by the $15 backers as well as soon as it's posted.

By the way, that comment made me think about what Levering wrote here:

Sad only 80k of us is going to see this video. Hopefully they will release the entire series as a dvd compilation with all the episodes.

The series will be available to everyone after it's finished.

No 1080p HD downloads though, right?

Otherwise the $30 reward tire doesn't make much sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it means that everyone will be able to buy the series on DVD/BluRay once it's finished.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can literally just go into your cache and copy the video across to your hard drive.

That said, I'm fine it not being properly available for download until the end product is released. They don't necessarily have to send out anything until the end product, so I'm really glad about what we are getting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Making the full HD video download only available at the end seems like a sensible way to ensure that people who specifically paid $30 or above for the HD download option get to enjoy that as an extra, rather than the full HD version of each episode inevitably being downloaded by the $15 backers as well as soon as it's posted.

By the way, that comment made me think about what Levering wrote here:

Sad only 80k of us is going to see this video. Hopefully they will release the entire series as a dvd compilation with all the episodes.

The series will be available to everyone after it's finished.

No 1080p HD downloads though, right?

Otherwise the $30 reward tire doesn't make much sense.

I never said there would not be 1080p downloads. That option will be available to the $30 tier backers when the project is finished.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a $30 backer, I'm perfectly fine with waiting until the whole thing is done before I get my 1080p version of the documentary. One minor question/suggestion I have about it though, is would it be possible to release the final video to us as a ready-to-burn blu-ray ISO image? I'd really like to be able to take my HD download, put it on a disc, and watch it on the TV as opposed to the computer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As a $30 backer, I'm perfectly fine with waiting until the whole thing is done before I get my 1080p version of the documentary. One minor question/suggestion I have about it though, is would it be possible to release the final video to us as a ready-to-burn blu-ray ISO image? I'd really like to be able to take my HD download, put it on a disc, and watch it on the TV as opposed to the computer.

I'll have to think about that, it seems kind of close to the $100 backer reward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Privacy // Project information is meant to stay private to the Kickstarter and forums during the campaign. We know this is a fairly impossible task but we are keeping our eye on leaks and how they are being used. Making HQ downloads available now would make it much easier to distribute the material outside the campaign.
Well said, you are undergoing an impossible task. No DRM measure conceived so far has worked out in the end, the only thing it did was hurt the loyal paying customers. Watching these videos in a browser using flash is a stuttering, low-fi experience. I'd compare it to what paying customers of DRM infested games have to endure. On a project that was funded by the community to begin with, this is unacceptable.

I don't like DRM any more then the next person, but this situation requires some context. Offering an exclusive private streaming video series through a Kickstarter is unheard of. We've tried to do something unique with this project, and through that we're facing unique challenges. I also hardly think that a 720p Vimeo stream can be considered a low-fi experience. I can full screen it on a 2560x1440 monitor and i think it holds up surprisingly well. The stream also supports html5 playback which may perform better depending on your setup.

Quality // The videos are currently uploaded at 720p which is a step down from the master quality of the 1080 videos. The videos offered at the end for download will be in 1080. Sitting on the 1080 versions adds a little protection to the value of the final released versions since we can be sure no one else will have them available.
Aren't these exactly the videos that I payed more money to see in the first place? Isn't the whole point of this documentary to follow the creation of the game as it happens, yet the videos are being withheld until everything is over? How is this accordable with the "mission" of this project?

These are not the videos you payed more money for. These are the streaming video updates that take place throughout the course of development. The videos you payed extra for will come at the completion of the project, as per the backer tier on the Kickstarter page-

PHaCS.png

Although i think that date has since been pushed back due to the increased dev time.

Consistency // By the end of the series we may still go back and make subtle changes to the videos. This would most likely be things like color and audio tweaks, but we would still rather not have multiple versions of the same video floating around confusing people.
Confuse people? This project will even lead to multiple versions of the whole game floating around once the beta period kicks in. That's the whole point of it. The people who backed this are hardcore gaming nerds, they want information overload, they want to see "how the sausage is made".

Apart from that, I don't see why this requires to withhold the 1080p version.

I don't think that is how the beta is going to work, but i can't speak for the dev side of things.

Distribution // We've received a few inquires about distributing the content online and on television after the series is finished. We still havent settled on a distribution platform, and considering the size of the files we would want to have something in place that wouldn't rack up substantial costs. It will be much easier for us to make an arrangement when the full body of work is complete and we know exactly how much data we'll be dealing with.
How about crowdsourcing the distribution? A private bittorrent tracker only accessible to backers where users give their own bandwidth to help distribution.

Apart from that, I strongly oppose the idea that the money I donated to the project could be used to pay for a distribution platform that imposes DRM measures and limits access to the videos. That would be like digging my own grave.

Private trackers are a possible solution that i'm sure will be considered when the time comes.

I'm not sure where all this speculation of DRM for the video downloads comes from. Did we ever say there would be DRM on the download videos? I had always envisioned the release being handled in a way similar to the Humble Bundle, they set a standard i would like to aim for.

We apologize for any inconvenience this is causing. With a little bit of research you can find ways to save the videos on your own, we would just ask you please not distribute them afterwards.
If the videos were funded by someone else and I was just a plain viewer watching them for free, this argument would make sense. But since I funded it in the first place, I don't t see why I should accept any inconvenience at all.

By the nature of the project there are no plain viewers watching the videos for free.

I think we've satisfied our end of the arrangement. We produce and release content as we said we would. There are going to be hiccups with the system, and we do our best to sort them out on a case by case basis. We can't possibly account for every viewers setup when considering the possible number of combinations of browser, network connection, OS, hardware, and software pluggins. According to our stats the first episode has been viewed 53 thousand times by many countries around the globe, so the system seems to be working well enough.

1HYs3.png

Episode 1 viewer heatmap

zaghY.png

Top 15 view volume

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for posting these statistics! I was wondering where the majority of the backers come from, but they really come from all over the world. Interesting to see that the Netherlands - as one of the smaller countries - has made it to number 8. I guess playing the national anthem in one of the update videos on Kickstarter really did its job. And apparently the adventure game-genre still isn't dead in Germany....;-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And Sweden with half the population of the Netherlands is in sixth place. Highest of all the smaller countries. :)

I think we've satisfied our end of the arrangement.

For what it's worth, I completely agree!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hey there.

thought I'd ask (tried to search the forum but too many hits on other subjects got me off track). will there be / is there a way to download the monthly documentary episodes (+ sidequest) as video files to my computer, instead of streaming them? would be nice to be able to put them on a usb to watch on my TV. as I can't find any displayport->hdmi cables longer than 5 meters I have no other way of doing that (if not watching through dvi without sound, which would be stupid). also, it would be much more convenient overall to just store them on the harddrive for future use and mobility and such etcetera bla bla. anyone with me?

Am I allowed to tell him how to do this? As long as the videos aren't shared? I generally dl each video and watch them on my tv, as I watch them with my gf and sitting in office chairs at the computer is uncomfortable. If it's not kosher, however, I don't want to explain how I do it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, anyway. The easiest way I do it is to download the Flashgot plugin for firefox

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/flashgot/

once it's installed you will probably have to restart firefox.

Anyway, then you just go the to the video you want to download, and click play. Once you do that, up in the top left of the browser, around where the back button is a button that looks like a film strip will appear. Just click that, and choose where you want to download. It will then download the video file and you can play it wherever you want. Easy peasy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well, anyway. The easiest way I do it is to download the Flashgot plugin for firefox

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/flashgot/

once it's installed you will probably have to restart firefox.

Anyway, then you just go the to the video you want to download, and click play. Once you do that, up in the top left of the browser, around where the back button is a button that looks like a film strip will appear. Just click that, and choose where you want to download. It will then download the video file and you can play it wherever you want. Easy peasy.

Thank you for ending the argument :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These are not the videos you payed more money for. These are the streaming video updates that take place throughout the course of development. The videos you payed extra for will come at the completion of the project, as per the backer tier on the Kickstarter page-

PHaCS.png

Ugh, so now I REALLY regret having not gone for the $30 tier. Then again, it was my very first Kickstarter project and I've change my investment behavior since then.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We apologize for any inconvenience this is causing. With a little bit of research you can find ways to save the videos on your own, we would just ask you please not distribute them afterwards.

Good guy levering. Realizes downloads aren't allowed yet, tells you there is a workaround to download them straight from vimeo. I do think it'd be a mistake to include any DRM in the final release, as pirates don't have to deal with that BS and would strip it anyways. It really only hurts paying customers. I really like the idea to include your video in a humble bundle! Put it on steam! I'd buy a couple for friends just b/c I've enjoyed them so much. (admittedly at a lower pricing I usually pay like $5-6 thanks to humble... but I do buy a bunch of them and send them to people who will often times never even play the games so...)

I was wondering, if the documentary stretches out a lot further then originally planned, will you guys continue to produce episodes until completion ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Watching these videos in a browser using flash is a stuttering, low-fi experience.

I always feel sorry for those folks whose experience of a given piece of media is ruined by audio or visual artifacts unnoticed by the vast majority of the audience.

"Ugh, this video has compression artifacts - it's unwatchable. There's no way I can appreciate the content while I'm constantly being distracted."

"Ugh, this CD is overmixed - it's unlistenable."

"Ugh, this pasta has cilantro - it's inedible."

Don't misunderstand - there's a threshold where presentation beings to interfere with content appreciation, and I suspect everyone's is calibrated differently. I have a hard time watching SD television compared to HD. I downloaded the Guitar Hero mixes for the tracks on Death Magnetic (which I purchased), though I didn't exactly find the originals "unlistenable".

But I suspect (and it's just my educated opinion) the vast majority of viewers do not notice anything lacking (much less distracting) in the 720 steam compared to the full uncompressed 1080. I'm not necessarily watching to be wowed by the spectacular vistas of the DF studio. I want to get a feel for the team's working environment, sure, but I'm mostly here for what's happening.

It'll be a moot point in several months, anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I can't stand to listen to MP3s or iTunes downloads for music. Ick, compressed audio loses all the 'feel'.

But for television, I watch almost all t.v. on my computer streaming from the internet. Weird.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've had zero problems, I think the quality has been great for privately distributed episodes over Vimeo. I'm scratching my head as to why anyone would complain unless their Internet is just slow. Even then, it was pretty clear in the Kickstarter rewards that 2PP will provide everything in full as downloads once everything's finished. Since development has been delayed, so have the episodes. 2PP and Double Fine have done an outstanding job, we are getting to witness something that could not have been done in earlier times, even a few years earlier from now. To find fault in it is astonishing to me.

"Everything is amazing right now and nobody's happy." - Louis C.K.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The series will be available for download after ...

Great news. I began to wonder about it too :).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...