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Greg Rice

DFA Game Club: Gabriel Knight

What do we play this time?!  

1,667 members have voted

  1. 1. What do we play this time?!

    • Beneath a Steel Sky
      170
    • Bontanicula
      136
    • Gabriel Knight
      228
    • Gemini Rue
      126
    • Gray Matter
      43
    • Machinarium
      174
    • Maniac Mansion
      120
    • Simon the Sorcerer 2
      89
    • Superbrothers: Sword & Sworcery EP
      100
    • Tales of Monkey Island
      175
    • The Journey Down
      12
    • The Last Express
      104
    • Under a Killing Moon
      84
    • Zak McKracken
      106


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MONKEY ISLAND!!! or maybe Simon the Sorcerer 2..

I really should start joining in on this, I keep missing them. -__- Shame on me!

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Anyone have experience running the GoG build on OSX? Please tell me this is possible without digging out Boot Camp and buying a copy of Windows.

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Du Bois - the GOG build is optimised for Windows and uses a version of DOSBox modified to smoothly handle GK.

The good news is that someone has already done the hard work of working out how to make it go on OSX here. Hope that helps.

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(Incidentally, checking the support forum I notice that some people have noted sound issues and excess speed issues with the DOSBox version, so some people might want to tinker around with the "dosboxGK.conf" configuration file in notepad to get the settings to their taste. I tried out earlier and I found that if I set sbtype to "sb16" and cycles to 10000 the game ran at a sensible-seeming speed and most of the audio glitches I could hear were sorted out aside from a few pops on the dialogue audio files, which seem to be artifacts of the game hailing from the early days of fully voice acted games.)

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Well GK is dosbox so you can just pickup dosbox for OSX and you can run it.

dosbox osx

Install Dosbox

Extract the game from the gog.com installer

Start dosbox

mount c (path to folder where the game is extracted)

mount d (path to folder where game is extracted)\GK1.gog -t iso

c:

then sierra if you didn't have it in a folder gk.

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Yeah, Jane has confirmed a bit more clearly in her latest update what her schedule is -- and she does say she'll stop by! Woo!

I'm not sure whether there has been confusion about the twitch vs. IRC chats -- I think we're generally chatting in the #dfadventure channel, so we'll need to make sure Jane knows that.

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Yeah, Jane has confirmed a bit more clearly in her latest update what her schedule is -- and she does say she'll stop by! Woo!

I'm not sure whether there has been confusion about the twitch vs. IRC chats -- I think we're generally chatting in the #dfadventure channel, so we'll need to make sure Jane knows that.

I'm sure someone will let her know......Greg......Chris

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I know it's not on the list but how about the Book of Unwritten Tales. Gotta give some props to Germany for helping keep the genre alive : )

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Hi Greg,

Would you consider adding "The Walking Dead" as an option in future polls?

I've just finished playing the game and it's a very refreshing and well made adventure.

The game only lasts for a couple of hours (it's episodic), so it would be a good candidate for a Game Club Saturday and is a great testament to well thought puzzles and story line excellence. Certainly something that can spur a lot of conversation and a good source of inspiration.

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Well thought-out puzzles? What puzzles? The Walking Dead was fun and all, but there weren't any puzzles in it. :P

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I know it's not on the list but how about the Book of Unwritten Tales. Gotta give some props to Germany for helping keep the genre alive : )

Agree with BoUT as a good game to represent what is possible in a modern adventure game. It got 3 Aggie Awards on www.adventuregamers.com (Readers: Best Comedy, Readers: Best Character (for Wilbur), Readers: Best Graphic Design) and was nominated for several others.

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Well thought-out puzzles? What puzzles? The Walking Dead was fun and all, but there weren't any puzzles in it. :P

Ahaha yeah I see what you mean there, it's mostly a matter of gathering objects and using them. But I still believe the puzzles are very well interwoven with the story/setting. Given that the whole concept behind the Game Club is to get ideas and inspiration for the DFA, I still believe The Walking Dead would be an excellent candidate.

I understand you played it, what do you think of it? :)

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Well thought-out puzzles? What puzzles? The Walking Dead was fun and all, but there weren't any puzzles in it. :P

Ahaha yeah I see what you mean there, it's mostly a matter of gathering objects and using them.

Isn't this how most adventure games go? ;)

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I'm down with Gabriel Knight. I actually started up a new game of this last week but I can start over again on Saturday too. Didn't get that far anyway. :P

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Well thought-out puzzles? What puzzles? The Walking Dead was fun and all, but there weren't any puzzles in it. :P

There actually we're puzzles... they weren't math puzzles, or sound puzzles, but they were inventory puzzles.

I read on forums of plenty people who were lost on the remote control thing. That in itself is a puzzle in the context of a point n click game. Environment and inventory puzzles are still puzzles.

That is what most 3rd person point and click adventure games consisted of back in the day. Inventory, logic and environment puzzles. Maybe a dialogue puzzle or two, but nothing more complex in a real "puzzle" and such. Only in modern times did the first person combine with the 3rd person that you'd have games that feature both such as The Whispered World.

The Walking Dead definitely has "puzzles" though and I'd say the puzzle to figure out how to get into the one location is full on to an adventure game in which one can't actually pass a puzzle unless they go check out the distraction which ends up helping with a solution to the main puzzle... a true tradition of adventure gaming. Although in The Walking Dead episode 1 this concept is handled quite clumsily as there's nothing to prompt you to do something else other feeling completely stuck and lost...not the best way to influence change in a game. In real life yes... but in a game, a dialogue prompt would've been better.

(I'm sure I sound like a shill here, but honestly I'm just a freelance reviewer who likes to speak up when I see someone make a statement I feel isn't correct.)

I actually think DoubleFine could definitely gain something from exploring what works and what doesn't work in games like Telltale's titles as much as they can afford to even look at they're own titles.

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Darn, I started playing Gabriel Knight and gave up during Day 9. I must have tried 10 times but couldn't get past one part.

Maybe this week, I'll have better luck.

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Gabriel Knight has been purchased, installed, and tested to make sure that it runs fine. I can't wait to fail miserably since I've only barely dabbled in Sierra's adventure games prior to this.

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I understand GK is significantly more forgiving than previous Sierra games. We'll see how that goes. (I'm still sore at PQ2 for killing me for not spending enough time on the gun practice minigame.)

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yeah its not a quest game so dont worry. theres only one "death trap", I think, before the endgame bit. so that would be fine as long as you save semi-regularly.

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If I remember correctly there's a small handful of events that have to be completed on certain days (the game is split into days) prior to the "day-ending" action (which also varies). This might have just been me playing through for points, and I don't remember if any of those missed things are game-breaking.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd recommend saving somewhat frequently still.

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Yep, I don't see your point at all. How would the DFA project suffer by us playing Gabriel Knight instead of Gemini Rue on this occassion?

Honestly I can't compare them because I've never played Gabriel Knight. I've seen someone play the first 30 minutes or so and it was clear that this game wasn't for me. Maybe Gabriel Knight IS the better pick for the game club, I don't know. All I'm saying is, this game was not picked with the development of Double Fine Adventure in mind. Playing a game for fun is not the same thing as playing a game to analyze it. Speaking of which...

And maybe you're taking this whole Game Club a tad too seriously! ;)

I understand why you think I might be too serious about this considering we're talking about games of all things, but I think it's the community that doesn't realize the importance of this game club. I've worked in the video game industry for several years, so I do tend to see the development aspect very seriously. Making a fun game is not something trivial. It's in fact hard. Very hard. Quite often you might think you have the best idea ever on paper, and it's only when the hard work of implementing it is done that you realize it simply doesn't work as you expected and it's just not fun, and if it can't be fixed you have to start all over again from nothing. In other words, you've wasted precious time and resources on garbage. Not good. Having access to previous game releases helps a lot on this regard to avoid doing the same mistakes and improving on proven good concepts. That's what I expected from this backer-only game club - a chance to analyze existing adventure games to help with the development of Double Fine Adventure. I was even convinced it was going to be the case when I saw the reasoning behind starting the club in the first place:

One of the important early parts of the game development process is doing research-playing old games as inspiration to remember what you liked about them and what things can be improved on.

That's totally not what I've seen so far though, at least in the game selection. I can't comment on what is discussed on IRC because I've never been able to attend to it, but I don't think it's much different from what I'm seeing here unfortunately.

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Yep, I don't see your point at all. How would the DFA project suffer by us playing Gabriel Knight instead of Gemini Rue on this occassion?

Honestly I can't compare them because I've never played Gabriel Knight. I've seen someone play the first 30 minutes or so and it was clear that this game wasn't for me. Maybe Gabriel Knight IS the better pick for the game club, I don't know. All I'm saying is, this game was not picked with the development of Double Fine Adventure in mind. Playing a game for fun is not the same thing as playing a game to analyze it. Speaking of which...

And maybe you're taking this whole Game Club a tad too seriously! ;)

I understand why you think I might be too serious about this considering we're talking about games of all things, but I think it's the community that doesn't realize the importance of this game club. I've worked in the video game industry for several years, so I do tend to see the development aspect very seriously. Making a fun game is not something trivial. It's in fact hard. Very hard. Quite often you might think you have the best idea ever on paper, and it's only when the hard work of implementing it is done that you realize it simply doesn't work as you expected and it's just not fun, and if it can't be fixed you have to start all over again from nothing. In other words, you've wasted precious time and resources on garbage. Not good. Having access to previous game releases helps a lot on this regard to avoid doing the same mistakes and improving on proven good concepts. That's what I expected from this backer-only game club - a chance to analyze existing adventure games to help with the development of Double Fine Adventure. I was even convinced it was going to be the case when I saw the reasoning behind starting the club in the first place:

One of the important early parts of the game development process is doing research-playing old games as inspiration to remember what you liked about them and what things can be improved on.

That's totally not what I've seen so far though, at least in the game selection. I can't comment on what is discussed on IRC because I've never been able to attend to it, but I don't think it's much different from what I'm seeing here unfortunately.

I somewhat agree with your points that this hasn't been an entirely productive experience -- but I'm not sure it's really been staged that way. There's been around 30-45 people joining the channel each weekend, but I'm not sure whether there's been much useful advice or analyzing come out of it -- Greg hasn't really posed many questions about stuff to the chat. Overall the forums and chat are altogether a pretty difficult environment to offer any criticism (constructive or otherwise) of the Tim Schafer / Ron Gilbert catalog - pretty much anything said that is slightly negative is jumped on as nitpicky nonsense.

So, I'm glad we're off the old Lucasarts games at least, at the moment - just because it will likely automatically bring about a more open, less clouded by fandom, level of discussion. (that is if Greg feels he can speak freely about stuff, when it's likely to be quoted.. burdens of public figuredom).

Really I'm not sure that I see the game club doing much more than putting some experiences we like in the forefront of the DFA producers mind -- and in this case I don't really think there's a world of difference in gameplay between Gabriel Knight and Gemini Rue (they're certainly a lot closer in style than Botanicula is to anything). I'm frankly surprised and happy that we get to feature any of the "harder" games on the list, because I would probably like any influence that trickled in to make DFA "harder."

But, back to the topic of trying to make the game club productive -- well, that's something that I kind of had hoped Chris Remo would bring to the community -- some amount of structuring of the conversations so they could be more productive and helpful. I think it'd be helpful if Chris, or Greg (although he's mostly busy enjoying the games so far), prompted for opinions/reactions on stuff... But I'm still unclear how much input they want, or whether they even want it.

---

We should probably throw some questions/prompts together to try to get on track.. Rather than Greg just asking "what did you think?" -- I'll start:

Pre-playthru thoughts/questions on Gabriel Knight (from memories of several years back):

- I remember enjoying the lack of marked hotspots, and how insanely many of them there are. Makes the game quite hard, makes for some "pixel hunting" but adds to the illusion of reality significantly. How does that sense of openness work for this game, could it be captured and modernized somehow to meet the pacing expectations of a modern audience?

- Why/how is this both one the best regarded and harder adventure games? Is it because of the story, or the design?

- Incredible sense of suspense and fear throughout a lot of the game.

- "You must look at this item twice" or "ask this person this thing" detective-like puzzles.

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Double Fine could have played the games by themselves if they needed to look back on previous titles in the genre, but bringing the community in on it makes it a fun weekly activity for anyone that decides to participate. If they were really hungry for game feedback from the community, I'm sure Greg would have made that clear by prompting us with questions to answer, or at least something more specific than "Ok, we're finished, what did you guys think about that game?" I do think it would be nice if we got a list of questions to answer once we finished with a title, though. It would make feedback more organized and focused.

Also, if you're concerned about us being stuck in adventure gaming past, Greg said a page back that he's already got some plans coming up involving a newer title.

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Double Fine could have played the games by themselves if they needed to look back on previous titles in the genre, but bringing the community in on it makes it a fun weekly activity for anyone that decides to participate. If they were really hungry for game feedback from the community, I'm sure Greg would have made that clear by prompting us with questions to answer, or at least something more specific than "Ok, we're finished, what did you guys think about that game?" I do think it would be nice if we got a list of questions to answer once we finished with a title, though. It would make feedback more organized and focused.

True, but then again I think there's advantages to gathering feedback without prompting - because in some ways you can learn more from the subjects people choose draw attention to and talk about than what they actually say about them.

PS, suggestion to Greg: might it be an idea to give Jane access to the forums (if she doesn't have it already) so that she can read and take part in this thread if she wants to?

Double PS: It looks likely I'll miss the communal playthrough, which on the one hand is irksome because it'd be really cool to play whilst Jane's talking with us in the chat. On the other hand, I will be making time to start my playthrough on Sunday and this way I can get started on the game without the temptation to ask the chat for hints. (And I guess thanks to the game's day-based structure it'd be somewhat easier for people who aren't playing along during the chats to catch up to where Greg is during the week.)

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Non of my favourite adventure games here. :(

Future suggestions:

Hotel Dusk: Room 215.

999: Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors.

Ghost Trick: Phantom Detective.

Catherine.

Ace Attorney.

Amnesia: The Dark Descent. xD

To The Moon.

The Walking Dead.

Lone Survivor.

Yesterday.

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Non of my favourite adventure games here. :(

Future suggestions:

Hotel Dusk: Room 215.

999: Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors.

Ghost Trick: Phantom Detective.

Catherine.

Ace Attorney.

Amnesia: The Dark Descent. xD

To The Moon.

The Walking Dead.

Lone Survivor.

Yesterday.

A number of those are on the DS, and while they're solid titles that are definitely worth a look, they probably wouldn't make for good choices for the DFA Game Club because there's likely a lot of people here without a DS. Same goes for the console-exclusive games you listed as well, like Catherine (though I personally consider Catherine more of a puzzle game than an adventure game). The one thing we know at least most people here have is a functioning PC, so picking games that saw a PC release make the most sense.

I could see the merit in playing some of the PC titles you mentioned, though.

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Non of my favourite adventure games here. :(

Future suggestions:

Hotel Dusk: Room 215.

999: Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors.

Ghost Trick: Phantom Detective.

Catherine.

Ace Attorney.

Amnesia: The Dark Descent. xD

To The Moon.

The Walking Dead.

Lone Survivor.

Yesterday.

A number of those are on the DS, and while they're solid titles that are definitely worth a look, they probably wouldn't make for good choices for the DFA Game Club because there's likely a lot of people here without a DS. Same goes for the console-exclusive games you listed as well, like Catherine (though I personally consider Catherine more of a puzzle game than an adventure game). The one thing we know at least most people here have is a functioning PC, so picking games that saw a PC release make the most sense.

I could see the merit in playing some of the PC titles you mentioned, though.

Also, streaming directly from a DS is super hard and requires crazy development hardware! Streaming a PC game is much easier.

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