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Episode 2: A Promise of Infinite Possibility

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Old Man Murray had the best rants back in the day. I went back to the site for nostalgia's sake and was pleasantly surprised by the relevance of the last post on the first page: Death of Adventure Games

For what it's worth I will add my 1/87,142 voice to say to the entire team, you guys rock and thanks for having us along for the ride! =)

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This is so amazing I have trouble finding words! :)

Obviously the concept has a lot of potential and I am sure it will come out amazing. It can go in so many directions from here that my brain now is just jumping from one idea to another.

@2PP - Great work. I don't know how you do it, but after each video I feel touched and inspired and simply happy. That whole experience would be totally different without you.

Also: now I know how they made those infamous notebooks in Se7en :]

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I know it is probably redundant to say, but watching this process is more than worth the price of admission. I feel like the adventure is us. Double Fine, you guys and gals. Double fine.

Quoted for truth there. Very interesting process to see and excited that the outline of the story makes me want to play the game already :)

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This game does need chinchillas!

Great update guys! I like the idea of the 2 worlds. You're on to something good here. Great work!

;-)

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Great episode!

Can I make a suggestion, though? I would appreciate it if the captions were a different color like yellow or red, instead of white. White captions blend in too much with the background and puts unnecessary strain on the eyes.

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Thanks for using our money well. These monthly updates are wonderful.

Hoping to see Psychonauts references in the game. Lots of circlejerking and gaming scene in-jokes.

Maybe some of the 2PP crew as characters in the game.

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Great work, guys, really loving it. I find myself wishing every episode didn't have an ending. It's just so much damn fun to see the process and feel almost (almost!) like I'm there while the game is being made.

Can't wait for the next Sidequest.

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So I'm guessing Tim never played The Longest Journey.

Doesn't seem very similar to this idea, except in the superficial sense that there are two worlds. But it sounds as if they'll interact rather differently and the focus will be on the 2 characters and their separate but linked stories.

Oh, and the story and writing will probably actually be good in this game *meeeooww* Yes, I went there ;)

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Great Episode - As an enthusiast of Tim and Ron's games since Day of the Tentacle (And Full Throttle, but I never bought Grim Fandango) and more recently Psychonauts, I'm happy with the concept and can't wait to see what comes out of it.

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I wish I had invested in the 100 tier, that t shirt looks awesome, any chance I could buy one

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White captions blend in too much with the background and puts unnecessary strain on the eyes.

Yeah, this was a bit problematic at times during this episode. We'll come up with a less strenuous solution moving forward.

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Thanks for this episode. You were speaking about puzzles and if they are just stopping the flow. I think this is only the case, if they are not really a plausible part of the story and also if you don´t get enough (hilarious) feedback, when you doing nonsense.

I´m just now playing a german adventure "Edna bricht aus". The graphics and technique are really not the best and there are of course a lot of puzzles and the puzzles in there are fun, even failing to solve a puzzle is fun, because you always get different cool reactions. You can even talk to every item in your inventory (and partly they even answer to you - or better a toy rabbit, wich is accompanying you is answering for them.)

A block in the flow would be, if you jsut get the same reaction over and over again, like (to give an extreme example) "I can´t do that", "I can´t do that", "I can´t do that".. etc. - that´s really bad for a players motivation (at least speaking for myself).

You just want to try everything with everything - talk to everything.. you even forget about the puzzles sometimes (which doesn´t mean the puzzles are useless, because they are main motivation to do all this).

I really liked "Edna bricht aus" more than the newest Risen 2 or even Mass Effect. The new part "Harveys new eyes" is also great. I never knew i would like to play a female convent pupil before, but I did.

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That was a great episode.

It showed a lot of insight to the creative process without much spoilers at all. Tim's confidence really shines through in this episode, making me think you guys can do this. :-D

2 Player Productions basically made an episode of Tim getting ideas down in a notebook and made it interesting and fun to watch. I think they could make a movie about watching paint dry and it would still be awesome. ;-) When the dust have settled and the game is out, you probably have some good footage for a feature movie that could be interesting for the general public.

Edit: Adding a more beefy opinion.

When the episode touched on the subject of puzzles and what people hate the most in adventure games, I couldn't help form a bunch of opinions myself. Pixel hunting is something I hate as well, nothing worse than trying to find the key hidden in the potted plant. But apart from that, one of the things I hate most in adventure games is also the thing I love the most. Getting the feeling that I can't do this, and then after a while proving myself wrong is both the worst and the best thing about the adventure genre. So I hate puzzles and I love them at the same time. But without those puzzles it wouldn't be an adventure game.

Games that gave me the feeling of having good puzzles were those that provided me with some confidence at the start. If a game starts with some relatively easy but good puzzles I get confidence in my own abilities and confidence in the logic of the game. Thats a good foundation to continue playing no matter what obstacles come later. That also makes me less inclined to look up spoilers later.

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I wonder if Boy and Girl are related somehow. It seems not.

Maybe you get very interesting (strange) puzzles if you have to make two unrelated characters solve them?

Everything that happens has a goal for the player, but seems incidental to the two characters you play?

Then who are you?

It kind of reminds me of Ghost Trick. A game with a great concept and great puzzles, where you as a player know a lot more than the characters do.

Very curious.

I could also imagine the idea is suddenly ditched for another one.

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I must honestly say that so far I really dont like the concept of the game. Of course it is way to early to hate the game but after the first artwork and this video I really concerned that this will be not like the game I was expecting.

Personally there should not even be the question of having puzzles or not. It should not even be a question of having an inventorysystem and so on. Also I think asking the Machinarium or even portal guy who has not even played most of his games is just wrong. I backed this project becasue I was hoping to get an old school Adventure game not some modern "junk" or even artistic game. I backed it up becasue I think most of these new Adventure games are really not for me.

None or less I enjoy these videos but I alo really hope that my concerns are just wrong and I will get a really good and old school like Point and Click Adventure.

What's just wrong is this kind of head-in-the-sand attitude towards so called modern "junk". Of COURSE they should ask people who have made adventure and puzzle games recently what they think about the medium. It would be silly not to. Last time Tim made this sort of game is 1998, and contrary to popular belief the medium hasn't been dormant since then.

Yes, he wants to make something that will appeal to the fans of the old games but that doesn't mean placing himself in a bubble where the last 15 years of thinking on story and game design have never happened. It makes total sense to see what people are thinking right now. Doesn't mean you have to go in the same direction - indeed, it looks like this will not be like what those games are. But it would be the height of arrogance for Tim to assume he has nothing to learn from the people who have been making adventure and story driven games most recently.

Again I backed this project up because I think that most modern Adventure games are very bad. Especially the ones who try to appeal to a much wider audience. Yes Adventure games have changed but not for the better. For example I hate what they did to the Directors cut of Broken sword. when thy put some random jigsaw puzzles in it just to open a gate for example. These kind of puzzles are really annoying when they absolutely do not make any sense to be there in the first place.

Only because something has change must ot mean its changed for the better. A wider audience does not make it better. Yes it will probably sell more but it can seriously have an impact of the quality of the puzzles, the mechanics or the game overall. In my Opinion Tim should not try to look at modern adventure games but more look back at his old games. He should asking himself why people loved these games and why people actually backed this project. Was it because they wanted a modern Adventure game or was it because people actually want nostalgia etc.

I am not asking him to make the game in the scumm engine or with the exact interface and so on. But possible asking himself of removing fundamental things like puzzles from back than or an inventory system is way too much in my opinion.

And if he really want to get feedback or some suggestions. He should go and take a look at games like Gray Matter or the recently released Yesterday Because these are really good Adventure games without losing too much of the old school feeling many modern Adventure games like Botanicula or Machniarium dont have.

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My hope was that the game would include some kind space/time/space-time mechanics and that sure seems possible now! I'm happy.

I sure am here for the documentary, and I keep convincing myself of that, because otherwise I wouldn't want to know any details. That's because, to me, one of the most important parts of an adventure game is to discover what the world has to offer me.

Also, the more we talk about Machinarium, the more I realize that there are 2 Machinarium games: the mini-puzzles in the game, and the action. I played both, but only loved the second one, and when I recommend Machinarium to someone, I'm actually only thinking about the action-adventure.

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If we're sharing what the game concept outline reminds us of, personally it put me in mind of the gloriously creepy Paperhouse...

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For example I hate what they did to the Directors cut of Broken sword. when thy put some random jigsaw puzzles in it just to open a gate for example. These kind of puzzles are really annoying when they absolutely do not make any sense to be there in the first place.

I do agree with this. They also took out a ton of hot spots and their related responses for anything not directly used to solve a puzzle or open a new area. I still think the original PC version of Broken Sword: Circle of Blood/Shadow of The Templars is the best version, even if it doesn't include the new extra chapter in the Wii version (I assume it's the same for iOS and others).

As for Machinarium, it's a different style of game. It may not be your cup of tea, but that doesn't make it a bad game.

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For example I hate what they did to the Directors cut of Broken sword. when thy put some random jigsaw puzzles in it just to open a gate for example. These kind of puzzles are really annoying when they absolutely do not make any sense to be there in the first place.

I do agree with this. They also took out a ton of hot spots and their related responses for anything not directly used to solve a puzzle or open a new area. I still think the original PC version of Broken Sword: Circle of Blood/Shadow of The Templars is the best version, even if it doesn't include the new extra chapter in the Wii version (I assume it's the same for iOS and others).

As for Machinarium, it's a different style of game. It may not be your cup of tea, but that doesn't make it a bad game.

Ok than lets say its a bad adventure game. I can see how people like these kind of puzzle games but for me this had nothing to do with an real adventure game.

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Again I backed this project up because I think that most modern Adventure games are very bad. Especially the ones who try to appeal to a much wider audience. Yes Adventure games have changed but not for the better. For example I hate what they did to the Directors cut of Broken sword. when thy put some random jigsaw puzzles in it just to open a gate for example. These kind of puzzles are really annoying when they absolutely do not make any sense to be there in the first place.

Only because something has change must ot mean its changed for the better. A wider audience does not make it better. Yes it will probably sell more but it can seriously have an impact of the quality of the puzzles, the mechanics or the game overall. In my Opinion Tim should not try to look at modern adventure games but more look back at his old games. He should asking himself why people loved these games and why people actually backed this project. Was it because they wanted a modern Adventure game or was it because people actually want nostalgia etc.

I am not asking him to make the game in the scumm engine or with the exact interface and so on. But possible asking himself of removing fundamental things like puzzles from back than or an inventory system is way too much in my opinion.

And if he really want to get feedback or some suggestions. He should go and take a look at games like Gray Matter or the recently released Yesterday Because these are really good Adventure games without losing too much of the old school feeling many modern Adventure games like Botanicula or Machniarium dont have.

You don't make great things by only listening to the views of people who are doing exactly the thing in your head. By getting the broadest range of opinions possible he's doing exactly the right thing. If they'd acted in the way you suggest back when those games you loved from the 90s were being made, the games wouldn't have been as awesome as you remember. They weren't trying to stick to tradition then, they were trying to advance the medium, and they had successes and failures in how they did that, but nearly all of their games felt special. No matter how good they were (and trust me, I'm a fan) only focusing on his old games, or games that are just like them would be the perfect way to make something unremarkable.

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Don't know why but this "two worlds" idea somehow reminded me "The Fountain" movie, where there are three stories going on and you don't see their connection at first: one is happening in 16th century Central America when Spanish people attack Mayans, one in present and one in space, in the far future.

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whoa.. I didn't expect the cameos from creators of other awesome recent games.. when can we expect Cliff Blezcinski ? I bet infinity blade was a point-and-click before it was a kinect and then iPad game, he could talk about that :P

and I love how Ron Gilbert has this look on his face of "oh oh.. here it comes.." whenever Tim talks to him. His answers always seem like he's trying to break it to Tim gently.

I hope we get to meet other members of the team in future episodes for longer.

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Thank the gods you're not going to throw away puzzles ...

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As for Machinarium, it's a different style of game. It may not be your cup of tea, but that doesn't make it a bad game.

Ok than lets say its a bad adventure game. I can see how people like these kind of puzzle games but for me this had nothing to do with an real adventure game.

But, what is a "real adventure game"? The genre's a lot more diverse than you think. The whole Myst series and the slew of games like it are adventure games, but of a different kind. So too is Machinarium.

You have an idea of what your adventure game preferences are, but to say that everything that doesn't conform to your preferences is "bad" makes no sense. You don't like that style? No problem! There are plenty of other games that probably do fit your tastes.

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Again I backed this project up because I think that most modern Adventure games are very bad. Especially the ones who try to appeal to a much wider audience. Yes Adventure games have changed but not for the better. For example I hate what they did to the Directors cut of Broken sword. when thy put some random jigsaw puzzles in it just to open a gate for example. These kind of puzzles are really annoying when they absolutely do not make any sense to be there in the first place.

I agree with that. When I think of the best puzzles, it's those that feel like the player must figure out how the story continues. Good puzzles are integrated into the story of the game and use a logic integral to the storytelling. Those that ask the question, how would the character act in this situation.

Thats the difference between Myst style puzzles and puzzles in narrative adventures, in Myst-like games the puzzles are mostly separate from the storytelling.

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Holy fucking shit, that video update was amazing!

It made me feel like buying the game up front has somehow made Tim's life a little easier. Not only does it make me happy that we have positively affected one of all of our favorite game makers, but it makes me truly believe that this game will be made with love and achieve the kind of coolness and sly humor that only an unshackled Tim Shaffer could pull off....uhuhuhuh...I said pull off.

Plus, getting an inside look at Tim's creative process is such a great bonus. This idea is really turning into something special and not just because of all the financial backing as a story, but because of it.

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Great episode! That was an interesting inside into Tim story writing approach.

So... a boy and a girl, who live in different worlds. And the only thing that connects these two worlds is an inter-dimensional lumberjack, am I right?

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And another advice to the game creators from me, the all-knowing forum guy: the game isn't finished if it doesn't have some surreal "dream" or "inside your mind" or "revisiting the past" section in it that shows familiar things from different angle and explores some insides of the character's mind. This is what makes me go "wow!".

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As for Machinarium, it's a different style of game. It may not be your cup of tea, but that doesn't make it a bad game.

Ok than lets say its a bad adventure game. I can see how people like these kind of puzzle games but for me this had nothing to do with an real adventure game.

But, what is a "real adventure game"? The genre's a lot more diverse than you think. The whole Myst series and the slew of games like it are adventure games, but of a different kind. So too is Machinarium.

You have an idea of what your adventure game preferences are, but to say that everything that doesn't conform to your preferences is "bad" makes no sense. You don't like that style? No problem! There are plenty of other games that probably do fit your tastes.

I dont think that games like Myst or even Machinarium can be called Adventure games but more puzzles games. Also we are talking here about a Point and Click Adventure game. And for me these are games like Monkey Island, Broken Sword, Yesterday Runaway and so on. Not games like Riven and co.

@Sexy Robot:

Why does this game have to offer something new or must be remarkable? The whole process in Kickstarter funding and the video documentation are more than enough for that. Games can be good or even great even without offering new ways or innovative features. For all this he budget is way too small in my Opinion. I rather want a great old school Adventure game than a try to revolutionize or innovate the genre.

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Double fine and a whisky, my weekend couldn't start better. A couple more of these episodes and my $110 was money well spent. Keep up the good work!

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