Jump to content
Double Fine Action Forums
Sign in to follow this  
DF Chris Remo

Episode 2: A Promise of Infinite Possibility

Recommended Posts

Personally I don't want an interactive comic book and neither an interactive story... I would like a point and click adventure...like Monkey Island, Gabriel Knight (yes go Sierra ;) ), Day of the Tentacle, Grim Fandango!!!!

Please go with the puzzles!!!! And please feel free to go old school about the whole thing... that's the reason why (I believe) we did back the project... we want these kind of adventures back... we still love them and it is more than sheer nostalgia... it's about the challenges that we find along the way and how we get to solve the various problems... that's the real charm... and of course the story but, again, the puzzles!!!! They are difficult and (sometimes) frustrating... however, once we overcome them we get this sense of satisfaction and... well I hope that I am not alone in this... :/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Totally in more for the documentary then the game. Is the office the only place that Tim is thinking about the game? a change of scenery maybe? let see more then just the DF office area =D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I liked about Monkey Island was the fact that it trnsported you to another place. But it wasnt so articulate in showing you all the wrinkles and crevaces of the characters. They looked so much more thn the vague pixelated faces we saw. We painted expressions on those faces. The recent "HD" versions of say Broken Sword and Monkey island. Were so crass in theyre representation of what we expected the faces of the character to respond and react to situations.. Just my very badly written 2 cents

Please forward to Mr.Schaffer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Is the office the only place that Tim is thinking about the game? a change of scenery maybe? let see more then just the DF office area =D
::cough:: Episode 3 ::cough::

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The premise Tim is talking about (two distinct storylines, set in different worlds, running in parallel) reminds me of my favorite novel of all time "Hard-Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World" by Haruki Murakami. I'd love to see a game that has a similarly eerie and mysterious atmosphere.

Here's an amazon link for people interested in the book: http://amzn.com/0679743464

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Is the office the only place that Tim is thinking about the game? a change of scenery maybe? let see more then just the DF office area =D
::cough:: Episode 3 ::cough::

hmm...I think you need a cough drop, this is the second time you've been hacking at me =P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First off, it doesn't NEED to be said, but it should anyway, fantastic video. I'm incredibly impressed by the work 2 Player has done so far.

Secondly, definitely never give up on the puzzles. Without puzzles, I don't feel like I have anywhere near as much control. It would almost be like watching a movie that periodically stopped so you could tell it to keep going. The puzzles make me feel like I'm part of the world and can interact with it and change it.

Also, I'd love to see a face-to-face type of thing with Dave Grossman, too, since he and Telltale Games are still making a certain variety of adventure games. Not that I think the Double Fine Adventure should go down that path, but it'd be interesting to pick his brain and talk about why Telltale went the episodic route and how they approach designing things like Sam and Max and Back to the Future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, every episode is such a fantastic experience that I can barely express it with words.

Tim and Ron have always been two mythical figures for me... that "feeling of infinite possibility" described by one of the guys in this episode is exactly how I felt the very first time I launched Zack McKracken, and again with Monkey Island. These two names displayed on screen were the names of wizards to me.

And now I can peek behind the curtain, see how they mix their potions and cast their spells... that's so awesome!

The idea of two parallel worlds, with two parallel characters whose stories slowly become interwoven is great and has so much potential. I'm very excited about it now. When I heard about it, I immediately thought of the webcomic "Dreamless".

Anyone who thinks this is a great idea should give it a look, hell even Tim should read it!

http://dreamless.keenspot.com/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At 05:13 you can see the package of a just recently unpacked PS VITA.

I hope this is at least SOME indication, that they are at least CONSIDERING a vita port (?!)

Great episode again!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do hope that the input of the "the best adventure games have no puzzles at all" guy isn't going to be considered, as what recent adventure games lacked to live up to the fun of the classics was exactly the puzzles, and my hope in backing this was that "oldschool adventure game" means that I'm finally getting these tough but fair head-scratchers designed by Tim (and Ron) again. If not the puzzles, what else defines "oldschool adventure game" compared to "modern adventure game"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
At 05:13 you can see the package of a just recently unpacked PS VITA.

I hope this is at least SOME indication, that they are at least CONSIDERING a vita port (?!)

Great episode again!

Without any inside knowledge into Double Fine, I would say that won´t happen unless they take in other kinds of financing to the project. A Vita Port is not free, and by using the backers money for that, they would have to retract promises made about the project.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regarding the puzzles i would like it if there would be more than one way to solve a puzzle or another way to get around a situation than a puzzle with only one solution.

I like having puzzles in there but i don´t like it when i get completely stuck and there is nothing else i can do besides solving a puzzle (other than look up the solution on the internet) and the puzzle can only be solved in one exact way (which besides me getting stuck then also takes away from the feel of having some creative freedom regarding how to handle things and how to progress).

Basically what i like(d) most about classic adventure games is the feel that a proper storyline is told and there´s a real world to explore and characters with wit charm and humor and what i dislike is whenever something happens that breaks that illusion of endless possibilities and actually being a person in a world and not just the consumer bot going for the one path to the goal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"A story about a boy and a girl, in two different worlds (Space ship / Castle). You can click on one at the start screen to choose which character you start to follow."

Star Ocean: The Second Story?

I kidd but then it is kind of true as well. Though I expect the ideas as they are being thought of have a completely different atmosphere and direction then Star Ocean did. Still Star Ocean 2 was a great game in dual narrative story telling, dynamic events, and interesting mechanics for within its genre.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You were talking about how some people say that they don't miss adventure game puzzles because it blocks the flow of the game, but would disagree it isn't the fact that there are puzzles that stopped the flow of the game but when you came up to a puzzle you felt like you couldn't solve without rubbing every item in our inventory on the problem. This happened in Pheonix Wright games a lot but only became a probem when you had 10+ items to choose from and you could be sitting there for upwards of 20 minutes as you when though your evidence. In portal it was hard but I never felt like I couldn't work it out if I was given enough time, it never felt like developer moon logic.

Anywho I can't wait to see what kind of people this girl and guy are!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Star Ocean: The Second Story?

Wow, you're absolutely right.

Tim might be interested in hearing this, although I really don't think it should matter much. It'll be a completely different game I imagine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I do hope that the input of the "the best adventure games have no puzzles at all" guy isn't going to be considered, as what recent adventure games lacked to live up to the fun of the classics was exactly the puzzles, and my hope in backing this was that "oldschool adventure game" means that I'm finally getting these tough but fair head-scratchers designed by Tim (and Ron) again. If not the puzzles, what else defines "oldschool adventure game" compared to "modern adventure game"?

Of course he's going to consider the guy's input, that's why he asked for it. But it seems like Tim arrived at the conclusion in the end that he will include puzzles in his game.

What about Loom? Do you not consider it to be an oldschool adventure game?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the parallel stories sound potentially interesting to me, but I picture both stories happen in turns and each chapter influences the outcome in another universe, then coming closer to the ending you play them both in split-screen, making them help each other in solving puzzles and then unite somehow by the end.

But I also know to think that some big concept like this is very difficult to pull, it will need a lot of dynamics. It's very broad concept.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone else thought "Gemini Rue and Dreamfall" when Tim talked about 2 characters being in different worlds?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great video. Really enjoyed watching that. I laughed really hard at the part where Tim was coming up with the title for Grim Fandango. LOL

And yeah, I fully expect this game to have puzzles. Really really hard puzzles. :cheese:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Beef? I am lacking in beef. Fawful is beefless."

Excellent, highly enjoyable stuff. The note process is a little more revealing to me now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The documentary is definitely worth the price of admission, good job guys!

I do think there is a place for puzzles in gaming, even the really hardcore ones of old (but yes, pixel hunting should stay dead). The recently released Fez is probably a good example of how puzzles can really suck you into the world of the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow guys, another great episode. This was the one I was hoping for.

The funny thing is, I'm about to start the pre-production of an animated short (financed by the Dutch Filmfund, yay) and we're also thinking about recording a small production diary to put online. This is really inspiring in so many ways :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since when is puzzles bad?.

I like solving puzzles figuring out how to do the most absurd stuff with the most crazy items.

Have an Adventure game without puzzles, RTS game without strategy lol. (which some companies tries to make by dumbing them down)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Is the office the only place that Tim is thinking about the game? a change of scenery maybe? let see more then just the DF office area =D
::cough:: Episode 3 ::cough::

That sounds pretty bad you might want to get that checked out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Is the office the only place that Tim is thinking about the game? a change of scenery maybe? let see more then just the DF office area =D
::cough:: Episode 3 ::cough::

That sounds pretty bad you might want to get that checked out.

I hope he doesn't! I want him to cough out more episodes!

Smiles

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm glad they brought up Machinarium but I didn't like how the only other commentary was Wolpaw which he is far from representative of any human being let alone the average gamer. That's what allows him to make the amazing things he does but I would take everything he says about gaming with a block of salt.

With that said I think by going with puzzles you inevitable invite the one or two bad ones that sneak through blocking the flow of the game regardless of how that flow is set up. As a result no matter what adventure game I've played from Lucas to Telltale to Amanita Design I've run into at least one puzzle that was more "well I never would have gotten that" or "fuck that wasn't really a good puzzle just esoteric". While it's part of the tradition and worth to keep if it means having puzzles at all but I wouldn't mind a creative solution to this classic problem.

I do want to speak more about the puzzles themselves. In general there has to be some circumstantial reason to keep the player in a mystery or away from where the conclusion to the story would take place. In games with combat the limit is the execution of the battle and the successful defeat of the enemy. In an RPG it's about leveling up your character and reaching a level of experience that allows you to traverse into deeper and more dangerous situations. With adventure games that inherent limiter is the puzzle or at least the obstacle. But even with games like The Walking Dead those obstacles are circumstances and other scenarios that emulate real life "puzzles" that would naturally prevent you from going forward. I believe that the era of "chicken with the pulley in the middle" solutions is behind us if for any other reason than cliche.

I think the adventure in adventure game is unfolding all the layers that the developer has carefully layered in the right order whether to challenge the player to figure it out or tell a story. Both of those I think it goes without saying and Tim said this as much is atmosphere. A world more than anything is required in an adventure game because you're often a character sitting there in a place. Since mechanics and action are not the focus, a world makes the act of being a character interesting and why idling around with your pal in say Sam & Max is a worthwhile experience. This extends to almost any Lucasarts game as well. That's at least why I've falled in love with adventure games despite being born around the time games like Monkey Island were released. TellTale were the torchbearers and starting with them I've explored adventure games old and new (although I refuse to play any Monkey Island unless its been special edition-ified).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

why did you guys fuck up the aspect ratio in the machinarium footage? don't do that, it's amatourish and disrespectful!

other than that, great film, keep them coming =)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm glad they brought up Machinarium but I didn't like how the only other commentary was Wolpaw .
There were loads of others...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Is the office the only place that Tim is thinking about the game? a change of scenery maybe? let see more then just the DF office area =D
::cough:: Episode 3 ::cough::

That sounds pretty bad you might want to get that checked out.

I hope he doesn't! I want him to cough out more episodes!

Smiles

Yeah, but it could be a fur ball.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very nice work on the episodes guys. Keep it up!

I legitimately lol'd a few times.

A few people echoed my sentiments about adventure games.

For me it's about the characters, story and atmosphere as Tim said.

The reason I love the Monkey Island series is bc the world feels "real" and the moments and music get stuck in my head and I love going back to them. I don't go back for the puzzles. They just happen to be the thing that keep you invested and controls the pacing. If they aren't done right, they can halt the pacing as well.

But puzzle creation is way above my pay grade.

The concept sounds fantastic to me even as early as it is.

I can't speak for everyone, but as for me, I trust that you guys have a handle on the process, you'll put effort into it, and l'll appreciate that.

If I don't like the end product, so be it. I knew what I was doing when I donated.

Keep it up!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...