Jump to content
Double Fine Action Forums
Sign in to follow this  
hymrr

EA's Origin wants Double Fine Adventure (among others)

Recommended Posts

Agreed, GOG and Steam are the only way to go.

I wish I could get every game on GOG, but developers love their DRM...

I think publishers love their DRM. I'm not as sure about developers, and I know there exist developers who have spoken out against DRM and don't believe it helps sales. It would be really nice if I could remember off the top of my head who that was... but maybe I'll get back to you. I'm probably going to sleep soon though. No, I'm not in China or something; my sleeping's a bit off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Agreed, GOG and Steam are the only way to go.

I wish I could get every game on GOG, but developers love their DRM...

Publishers.

Almost without exception, developers just want people to play their damned game. The reason developers would want to be on Steam is that that's one of the best ways going currently to make sure their game gets played.

(As for DRM, Valve actually actively work with publishers to discourage them from putting the sort of DRM onto their products that ends up making it worse)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah, you agree, SurplusGamer.

I tried to find those developers against DRM I mentioned, but this turns out to be trickier than I thought. It turns out the developers who have spoken out against DRM don't use DRM. Shocker. I suppose when you're still using DRM because a publisher told you to you don't wanna to alienation the publisher by saying they're making stupid decisions.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/pc-game-drm-copy-protection,7777.html

http://news.softpedia.com/news/The-Witcher-Developer-Believes-DRM-Shouldn-t-Be-Used-at-All-237952.shtml

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/03/08/witcher-2-developer-we-will-never-use-any-drm-anymore/

I remember reading an article that I suspect interviewed The Witcher's developers who said that they suspect other games are only still using DRM because the publishers tell them to, but that's not as interesting as a developer under a publisher that's actually still using DRM saying that. Oh well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is just a move by EA to try to get a foothold in the indie game distribution market that is so dominated by Valve right now. But I have no problem with it. I choose not to use Origin, but I don't hate EA and don't think this is anything evil or nefarious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Remember, if not for EA, Brutal Legend would have been cancelled. EA may be a big business run like a big business, but John Riccitello, unlike previous presidents of EA, does care about creativity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ah, you agree, SurplusGamer.

I tried to find those developers against DRM I mentioned, but this turns out to be trickier than I thought. It turns out the developers who have spoken out against DRM don't use DRM. Shocker. I suppose when you're still using DRM because a publisher told you to you don't wanna to alienation the publisher by saying they're making stupid decisions.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/pc-game-drm-copy-protection,7777.html

http://news.softpedia.com/news/The-Witcher-Developer-Believes-DRM-Shouldn-t-Be-Used-at-All-237952.shtml

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/03/08/witcher-2-developer-we-will-never-use-any-drm-anymore/

I remember reading an article that I suspect interviewed The Witcher's developers who said that they suspect other games are only still using DRM because the publishers tell them to, but that's not as interesting as a developer under a publisher that's actually still using DRM saying that. Oh well.

Mm, it's a tricky one, and as usual it's usually more complicated than people think. But if you're someone who makes games and loves to make games, I can tell you there is nothing like the feeling of seeing someone playing your game and telling you they enjoyed what you made. I don't know any developer who would actively want to screw that up by trying to control how and where their game can be played really tightly. But a lot of them DO have to work with publishers, or are owned by publishers, and they have to keep good relations.

What's really interesting now are these situations where the tide is turning a little, where developers are getting to ask: 'Okay, you want to publish our game. So, give us a good deal then.' When publishers aren't the only game in town, they have to start coming up with better offers. I'm hoping this means in the long term they'll see the wisdom of DRM free. But it might take a while.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I remember reading an article that I suspect interviewed The Witcher's developers who said that they suspect other games are only still using DRM because the publishers tell them to, but that's not as interesting as a developer under a publisher that's actually still using DRM saying that. Oh well.

Some versions of the Witcher 2 were using DRM because publishers demanded it, they eventually got rid of it with a patch, like they did with the first game. Considering that plus the fact that these people also run GOG I think it's fair to say that anything they say about DRM is interesting enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Agreed, GOG and Steam are the only way to go.

I wish I could get every game on GOG, but developers love their DRM...

Publishers.

Almost without exception, developers just want people to play their damned game. The reason developers would want to be on Steam is that that's one of the best ways going currently to make sure their game gets played.

(As for DRM, Valve actually actively work with publishers to discourage them from putting the sort of DRM onto their products that ends up making it worse)

Oh, I have a lot of love for Steam too (as pretty much the least painful DRM provider for PC games); I just wish that GOG was also supported by a lot of the titles that end up on Steam, as GOG are just so damn convenient.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Remember, if not for EA, Brutal Legend would have been cancelled. EA may be a big business run like a big business, but John Riccitello, unlike previous presidents of EA, does care about creativity.

Though EA also mislead consumers by purposely not advertising any of the RTS multiplayer elements in Brutal Legend. EA was also quick to drop support since the game didn't sell as well as they wanted, and thus the PS3 version didn't get a much-needed patch that would have fixed some particularly nasty issues, even though the patch had been ready for ages.

As far as I've seen, EA seems to want to pretend that Brutal Legend never happened.

Edit: As a side-note to the Steam DRM discussion, Steam itself is not DRM, though many games are packaged with Steamworks or DRM of another kind. There are some DRM-free games on Steam (A recent example being Rayman Origins) that can be launched with no internet connection and without Steam even running by going to the game's directory and starting it from there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Agreed, GOG and Steam are the only way to go.

Why? What's wrong with GamersGate, Green Man Gaming or any other store? I'm fond of GamersGate myself. At least when it comes to gifting games they're the best, since you can gift anything you haven't yet downloaded (or claimed a key to), and anything you buy double shows up as a gift, unlike Steam where you buy a bundle you lose the extra copies of what you already own most of the time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Agreed, GOG and Steam are the only way to go.

Why? What's wrong with GamersGate, Green Man Gaming or any other store? I'm fond of GamersGate myself. At least when it comes to gifting games they're the best, since you can gift anything you haven't yet downloaded (or claimed a key to), and anything you buy double shows up as a gift, unlike Steam where you buy a bundle you lose the extra copies of what you already own most of the time.

With GOG, the games are all DRM free. You download installers who don't need an internet connexion, and can be baked on any physical support without any gog.com dependency - no password, no login, nothing. A last thing: GOG uses a worldwide price for games, without the "regional tax" Europeans suffers from most distributors.

With Steam, you're mostly dependent of the client (some games runs without, but even old games like Doom needs it...), but Steam offers some services to balance the inconvenience: in game chat, achievements, dual Windows / Mac version for some games, etc.

GamersGate isn't too bad, but when you download a game, you only download a downloader, linked to a login. This downloader downloads and runs the installer. When the installer is done, you must relaunch the downloader again if you need to reinstall the game (there's an obvious way to circumvent this system, but it isn't the expected procedure).

I don't know about "Green Man Gaming", but a lot of stores tries to impose a client, on top of the existing game DRM.

Both GOG and Steam respects the customers. The choice is then of availability (GOG -> more older games, Steam -> more newer games), and your stance regarding DRM and distributor dependence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The more options, the more people will be exposed to the game and the more money Double Fine will make for their next project (perhaps Tim's New House). Politics are meaningless. You don't have to get it on Origin, I know I won't, but maybe someone would like to.

EA can go kill themselves. I hope no one gets sweet-talked into this. If EA was really serious about these games, they would've done something about it a long time ago, Kickstarter frenzy or not. I still haven't forgiven them for killing off Origin Systems, Bullfrog, and Westwood Studios.

EA of today is not the same EA that they were when Larry Probst was boss. That man can eat a million dicks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is EA trying to do damage control for their negative reputation and get in everyone's good graces by appearing to be some kind of champion of independent games.

I don't use Origin but everyone seems to hate it. I don't like forced DRM.

At the same time, if Origin is one of many distribution platforms offered for a game (Steam, GOG, DRM-free from developer website, etc.), then at least people have a choice.

Some of the articles talking about this EA kickstarter thing are trying to make it seem like Jane Jensen has agreed to use Origin. She hasn't, and she's explicitly said that on the kickstarter. She just said it was a nice opportunity for people. Brian Fargo seems to be on board, but again people will still be able to get Wasteland 2 DRM-free (at least the kickstarter backers).

I'm actually a bit surprised that Fargo agreed to use Origin, as EA seems to stand for everything Fargo spoke against during his campaign when talking about freeing himself from big publishers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The more options, the more people will be exposed to the game and the more money Double Fine will make for their next project (perhaps Tim's New House). Politics are meaningless. You don't have to get it on Origin, I know I won't, but maybe someone would like to.

A valid point that I would follow to a degree and participating in such politics is certainly to be avoided, I for one think it would be a bad idea for anyone from Double Fine to make any statements about Origin whether DFA eventually appears on the service or not, the topic is just too volatile in the gaming community for studios to join the discussion.

Having DFA on Origin can lead to some extra sales and with the promised benefits you could even say they are worth more than say a Steam sale, but it could potentially cost you far more sales than you gain. This project has the reputation of defying the big publishers, we raised over 3 million to develop a game that they aren't interested in anymore. This is an incredible powerful message as a word of mouth promotional tool, side by side other popular games it's the underdog, it's the first of the huge kickstarter games and therefor has an exemplary role. The day the game releases and millions more gamers are exposed to the trailer that ends with where they can get it, how does it fit in that story for the Origin logo to be there...

It's a tiny blemish but an important one with this specific history, it only has to slightly diminish the enthusiasm with your target audience and some will be less inclined to proudly tell everyone about the game and the devoted community that wouldn't have otherwise happened because the big publishers gave up on it.

There is no secret that I dislike EA but not enough to think Double Fine should sacrifice profits because of it, I genuinely think more people would be disappointed by the game being on Origin than happy and that makes the math simple. I even think it's wrong to judge something as a whole by simple association with something you dislike but that's human instinct.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would say "no" because Origin is crap, but a little competition is no harm. So, I don't mind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope game designers are too smart to fall for this honey trap. Down with the distributors and publishers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not have enough knowledge in business practices to fully understand what is at stake here.

But merely from the delivery system stand point I have not had the best experiences with Origin and cannot endorse it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
EA can go kill themselves. I hope no one gets sweet-talked into this. If EA was really serious about these games, they would've done something about it a long time ago, Kickstarter frenzy or not. I still haven't forgiven them for killing off Origin Systems, Bullfrog, and Westwood Studios.

EA of today is not the same EA that they were when Larry Probst was boss. That man can eat a million dicks.

EA as it currently stands is the least consumer-friendly publisher in the industry. Less evil doesn't necessarily mean good...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have nothing personal against EA, but I would prefer the kickstarter projects to promote some of the 'other' distribution methods out there instead of increasing EA's Origin market share. Sure, it would provide some extra visibility for the kickstarted projects, but there are plenty of other ways to get the word out, and being that I doubt many are going to Origin simply to shop for games, it seems to give more benefit to Origin than to Double Fine.

Amazon direct download and the countless other distributers would be better suited, I'd say.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I must say I don't want EA/Origin to have anything to do with DFA or any other Adventure game at all!

Steam is annoying enough...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't mind as long as it's not EXCLUSIVE to Origin. I understand why EA would want to offer it at no cost to Double Fine and that would be to get more Origin members. If that's the ONLY catch than I'm fine with it. I think all this vitriol towards EA is due to them being a horrible publisher at making quality games, great at making money but, horrible at making quality games. But I think it's because people don't understand the proposition.

They are not going to own the game or have any input on the future of the game. They just want to offer it for people to download so we have to get Origin in order to download the game. While we download it we might see another game we like or something. Since it's DRM free we won't even need Origin to stay on while we play like Steam makes you do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I wouldn't mind as long as it's not EXCLUSIVE to Origin.

Considering all backer digital distribution is done through Steam, I don't think exclusivity to Origin will be an issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm no fan of Origin, but since exclusivity is not an issue I don't see why the DFA couldn't be available for people who want to buy it on there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The way the proposition is phrased makes it clear that some dunce at EA has just decided that Kickstarter games are THE NEXT BIG THING and wants to get a piece of the action. They haven't stopped to think about why crowd-funding is such an attractive prospect at the moment and tried to get in on it at the source, they just want to make sure they're still in the picture. It's not going to benefit anybody in the long run.

I don't have any particular gripes with EA but I do know that huge, heartless companies like them are a big part of why the games industry is in such bad shape at the moment. I'd like for Double Fine to avoid them if they can, especially since this whole Kickstarter thing is partly about trying to combat that system but EA hold a lot of the cards here and if Double Fine feel that using Origin is going to benefit them I wouldn't lose any respect for them or whatever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The way the proposition is phrased makes it clear that some dunce at EA has just decided that Kickstarter games are THE NEXT BIG THING and wants to get a piece of the action. They haven't stopped to think about why crowd-funding is such an attractive prospect at the moment and tried to get in on it at the source, they just want to make sure they're still in the picture. It's not going to benefit anybody in the long run

Yes!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
EA can go kill themselves.

Whoa there. Tone it down a notch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The DFA seems to have a lot of media clout right now. Perhaps, DoubleFine could agree to put DFA on Origin on the condition that they reverse one or two questionable policies/business practices.

If they agree, great. If not, it seems like a Steam/GOG only approach is just fine as well.

Just an idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd rather publishers like EA don't get to boost their reputation with crowd sourced indie games; I don't mind them making the decision not to support risky projects but when the fans step up to the plate I feel it's their interests that need to be promoted and protected, not big publishers.

I don't feel gamers and backers alike would benefit from crowd sourced games being distributed through Origin and that is where the argument ends for me, we already have distribution systems aimed at benefiting gamers and those are the ones crowd sourced games should be supporting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can see how this would be a "smart move" by EA, although I think right now their reputation with indie gamers precedes them greatly. And by reading part of this thread I notice that not many people actually trust them.

Considering how much media attention DFA has, they could probably influence EA's Origin service to something more appealing. Whether they are willing to, that's another story.

As a company EA is suffering from the "fourth stage" problems. Their corporate culture has made it difficult for many people working inside to make amazing games. The solution is for them to return to innovation. There are signs that they are doing this, although they seriously need improving because the cycle of "buying X game company to expand Y" isn't cutting it enough. Plus to the outsider it only appears that they are trying to swallow up every other game company just because, worsening the relationship to the expanding indie gamers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...