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Greg Rice

DF Game Club: Superbrothers: Sword & Sworcery EP

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███████████████ We had not seen our friend Greg for weeks, █████████████████

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RIP Greg. RIP gameclub. The Trigon is lost!

RIP ▲.

:'(

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I completed my woeful errand a couple of days ago. I think I'm going to give it a second runthrough (and also finish the game on a full moon to see if anything is different).

I need more time to reflect on it, but I think I really like the game.

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I'd almost suggest switching to it being a community-organised thing with volunteers taking the lead - someone could sort out a schedule, people could volunteer to stream in a particular week so we're not constantly seeing the same steam, etc. Then again one of the main benefits of the GC has been having us play alongside Greg - not only has it been really good for community building, but I suspect observing our reactions to different stuff in adventure games has been more than a little useful to the DFA team. Handing the organisation over to the community would risk having the DF contribution to the game club atrophy.

I'm starting to think this may need to happen. With the game nearing the time where we'll be ramping into production, it's going to be harder and harder to make this work. Not just because there's a lot to do, but also because it's important to see friends and family every now and then when I do have a free Saturday. Obviously I'd still want to jump in when I can, but I'm wondering if there is a way we can make this work a bit better. I'm open to suggestions!

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Oh, and this is all to say that I once again have a birthday party to attend today and can't be there! Sorry dudes.

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Finally finished the game earlier today (wanted to be #honest). I'm not really sure how I feel overall. During the first two and a half sessions I thought it was a great experience, but my excitement died down pretty quickly after that. I blame the combination of having to wait 11 days for the moon to cycle and repeatedly going through the dream forest without much variety in the Sworcery puzzles. I also missed the Grizzled Boor so I'd like to replay it eventually...

But holy cow, the jam session where you click on the different musical tone bushes was the greatest!

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I think there are a few of us who'd be happy to help coordinate the game club. It would really be nice to do it with your support as well though (rather than being left on our own to promote it, etc.).

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I'm starting to think this may need to happen. With the game nearing the time where we'll be ramping into production, it's going to be harder and harder to make this work. Not just because there's a lot to do, but also because it's important to see friends and family every now and then when I do have a free Saturday. Obviously I'd still want to jump in when I can, but I'm wondering if there is a way we can make this work a bit better. I'm open to suggestions!

Funnily enough, Greg, I was actually writing a post to this effect when you made this post. I'll post to a new thread in the general discussion area so as not to derail the S:S&S conversation.

EDIT: Thread posted: here.

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Finally finished the game earlier today (wanted to be #honest). I'm not really sure how I feel overall. During the first two and a half sessions I thought it was a great experience, but my excitement died down pretty quickly after that. I blame the combination of having to wait 11 days for the moon to cycle and repeatedly going through the dream forest without much variety in the Sworcery puzzles. I also missed the Grizzled Boor so I'd like to replay it eventually...

But holy cow, the jam session where you click on the different musical tone bushes was the greatest!

Well, personally I got annoyed by the arbitrariness of the puzzles in the second session, which I guess work much, much better with a touchscreen, which made me wonder why the game got ported in the first place. But those issues weren't so bad that they made me stop playing, and I still had good hopes for the third session. But the deal with the moon cycles really made me ask if they were kidding me. It's a nice idea, and a welcome one for a potential side quest, but to require it for the main quest, which, by definition, is the one you have to focus on to finish the game, is mind-boggling. All the meta aspects can't make up for it, maybe it could if they went further in that direction, but as it is, no.

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Finally finished the game earlier today (wanted to be #honest). I'm not really sure how I feel overall. During the first two and a half sessions I thought it was a great experience, but my excitement died down pretty quickly after that. I blame the combination of having to wait 11 days for the moon to cycle and repeatedly going through the dream forest without much variety in the Sworcery puzzles. I also missed the Grizzled Boor so I'd like to replay it eventually...

But holy cow, the jam session where you click on the different musical tone bushes was the greatest!

Well, personally I got annoyed by the arbitrariness of the puzzles in the second session, which I guess work much, much better with a touchscreen, which made me wonder why the game got ported in the first place. But those issues weren't so bad that they made me stop playing, and I still had good hopes for the third session. But the deal with the moon cycles really made me ask if they were kidding me. It's a nice idea, and a welcome one for a potential side quest, but to require it for the main quest, which, by definition, is the one you have to focus on to finish the game, is mind-boggling. All the meta aspects can't make up for it, maybe it could if they went further in that direction, but as it is, no.

you mean those "tearing the landscape" puzzles? those felt so completely out of place, and part of all reasonable prunings to players options that i felt betrayed. and they want you to do it twice. using waterfalls as harps is fine on the other hand because they immediatelly stand out as active elements.

and btw: why the HELL do you wait REALTIME? the game is not that stupid and i stumbled upon the solution almost immediatelly. and it was actually a very logical solution. you dont even have to cheat.

and that jam session is indeed bad ass. the beauty of musical theory lets even the most non-musical person to come up with something nice.

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you mean those "tearing the landscape" puzzles? those felt so completely out of place, and part of all reasonable prunings to players options that i felt betrayed. and they want you to do it twice.

Yes, I meant those. And the sheeps.

and btw: why the HELL do you wait REALTIME?

Because I started on a bright moon. No boar there!

and that jam session is indeed bad ass. the beauty of musical theory lets even the most non-musical person to come up with something nice.

I liked that one too, though I felt the sounds weren't as responsive to my clicks as I would have liked. Took some practice to learn how to properly play the trees and make it sound good.

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sheeps were ok, imo. they were one of the really few active elements on screen at that time. even though i admit that i guessed the correct order by chance, without really understanding how it works. ive tried a couple of ideas, but i still dont have a clue how does that work.

what does boar have to do with it?? he can be found during dark moon. i started on bright moon as well. you just have to find a key that ressembles logfellas key and then find a lock for it.

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I didn't find any key and I think I explored every environment in the dream world. Maybe it's in the "real" one? But I think I was exhaustive there too. Sure, didn't look specifically for it, but I should have noticed it, right? Anyway, I don't think I will return to the game either way.

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I didn't find any key and I think I explored every environment in the dream world. Maybe it's in the "real" one? But I think I was exhaustive there too. Sure, didn't look specifically for it, but I should have noticed it, right? Anyway, I don't think I will return to the game either way.

i dont remember exactly how i came to it, but i think it was at the beginning of session 3, i went to the dream world on bright moon. got the trigon and then i think i have left. explored for a bit and returned (the phase right after bright moon). and then i think i would the key...somewhere. it looks identical to logfellas key. then you can get into a really cool looking room, through which you can bypass all cheating :). i suppose it was meant to be a chance discovery, but the result of not finding is...underwhelming.

damn, now i have to get the soundtrack, i loved the track (tracks? there were some variations right?) played during trigon battles.

or maybe i was just plain lucky as hell...tbh i dont remember how exactly i got it, maybe it was all a dream and i havent even finished the game :o.

now that ive checked a few websites, it seems that i really did fight the boar to get it. and even the moon phase is appropriate.

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You say that it was after the bright moon, so it doesn't seem possible to find it on the bright moon, which means you have to wait at least one day for the chance to find it. I guess the placement of the key and the moment you can find it is even randomly determined. Well, that explains things. :-/ Truly, the game design is broken.

The soundtrack is great indeed! I listened a lot to it. The Trigon battle one is also one of my favorites.

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So I guess the placement of the key is random? And the moment you can find it is randomly determined too? Well, that explains things. :-/ You also say that it was after the bright moon, so it doesn't seem possible to find out on the bright moon, which means you have to wait at least one day for the chance to find it. Truly, the game design is broken.

The soundtrack is great indeed! I listened a lot to it. The Trigon battle one is also one of my favorites.

no, every time i left the dream world the moon phase had advanced.

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Really? I remember leaving the dream world before getting the Trigon, but the moon phase didn't advance then. So the game is inconsistent there too! BAH! Could this be in any way more opaque and arbitrary!?? I'm getting crazy here! Never ever again!

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wierd, you know i was quite surprised as well. this way you can finish the game easily, try it again maybe.

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I entered and left the dream world many times and the moon phase never advanced. I ended up just doing the system clock cheat. I also got the "honest" achievement, so that was cool. :P

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I entered and left the dream world many times and the moon phase never advanced. I ended up just doing the system clock cheat. I also got the "honest" achievement, so that was cool. :P

wtf? i know it happened on bright moon. i havent tested it any further. and i was playing at about 10-11pm...do you think that i was THAT lucky to have it that that? i didnt happen once. it happened more than a couple of times. and are you sure? there is just a miniscule difference in the look of the moon in the background.

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Well, it seems like you have to get the Trigon before the moon phase will advance. I guess...it's weird how this game still occupies my mind, though I don't intend to return to it. :/

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no, every time i left the dream world the moon phase had advanced.

Until I got the key, the moon phase only advanced in real time for me. I could exit and re-enter the dream state as many times as I liked on the same day without the moon phase changing. Is it possible that you were misinterpreting the game (I haven't seen anybody else talk about having that experience)?

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no, every time i left the dream world the moon phase had advanced.

Until I got the key, the moon phase only advanced in real time for me. I could exit and re-enter the dream state as many times as I liked on the same day without the moon phase changing. Is it possible that you were misinterpreting the game (I haven't seen anybody else talk about having that experience)?

no, thats the one thing im sure of. when i left the bright moon dream world, it was a day after. ive noticed that after i visited it again.

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I entered and left the dream world many times and the moon phase never advanced. I ended up just doing the system clock cheat. I also got the "honest" achievement, so that was cool. :P

wtf? i know it happened on bright moon. i havent tested it any further. and i was playing at about 10-11pm...do you think that i was THAT lucky to have it that that? i didnt happen once. it happened more than a couple of times. and are you sure? there is just a miniscule difference in the look of the moon in the background.

Oh I'm positive. It was quite frustrating not to be able to progress in the game. As soon as I changed the system clock, everything was happy. (I was stuck in the bright moon phase, by the way.)

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I entered and left the dream world many times and the moon phase never advanced. I ended up just doing the system clock cheat. I also got the "honest" achievement, so that was cool. :P

wtf? i know it happened on bright moon. i havent tested it any further. and i was playing at about 10-11pm...do you think that i was THAT lucky to have it that that? i didnt happen once. it happened more than a couple of times. and are you sure? there is just a miniscule difference in the look of the moon in the background.

Oh I'm positive. It was quite frustrating not to be able to progress in the game. As soon as I changed the system clock, everything was happy. (I was stuck in the bright moon phase, by the way.)

so youre basically saying the game screwed with me, and i lived in a small little pocket universe, when this thing didnt happen...makes me feel special and also makes me think that the devs are quite mad :)).

weird game indeed.

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Here's my problem with all this moon stuff. The way it was pitched to me when I first heard about this game is that some different things would happen depending on the moon. I didn't realise that being on the incorrect moon phase would actually halt my progress. It's not an inherently terrible idea but, it's based on a gamble...

It's gambling that you'll be invested enough in it that by the time you get to part 3, you'll be willing to do all the moon stuff (either just by waiting or messing with your system clock) to keep on playing. And that's where it loses the gamble for me. I'm not that invested. At this point? Mildly interested, but the thought of messing around with this moon phase stuff just makes me tired. My desire to not have to either figure out or find out what to do to 'make the game go' and then do it currently exceeds my mild curiosity to find out what happens next. Kind of a shame, for me.

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I have to say that Sword & Sworcery is officially the 3rd point-and-click adventure that I have completed, despite having started dozens (first was NES Maniac Mansion back when it was new-ish, the second was Botanicula recently).

This is why I finished S&S:

It was short, and there were no puzzles involving walking back and forth across 5 minutes of backdrops. These two reasons are why I have never finished Monkey Island, despite loving the game. I just don't have the time or interest that I used to. I can't seem to tolerate games like Myst anymore, either. Life, man. Life.

This is how I feel:

I really liked the music, and I liked the art and narration style. It was funky and interesting.

I didn't care for the gameplay. It was pretty dull most of the time. I was really moving around just to find something that either made noise or was more fun than walking around, which isn't much of a motivation.

Some of the puzzles were frustrating, because I didn't understand how to interact with them. The harp waterfalls were the worst, because I originally thought I was triggering them by stroking downward across the water spills. It took me too long to figure out my mistake, because it was still making noise as if I was doing something right.

At the end of it all, though, I came away with a good feeling, because the game was over. I didn't have to play it repeatedly, and I didn't have to use some online guide to figure out that you put part A in part B, after exposing part C to NPC 1, who then gives NPC 2 part D, and allows you to access area Alpha, where you can use the combined part A+B on part E, while NPC 3 is sleeping, and after the blue moon winks at a virgin on top of the one remaining hill in Faerie Land while a monk rolls a perfect 20 against the unicorn standing in a midnight pool where king Arthur once had his lunch with Elvis.

What this implies about the DFA:

I probably won't finish it, unless it's short. I'll start it, play for a while, and then I'll hit some puzzle that feels like the answer is too drawn out for me to ever complete (i.e. find contest flyer, find discarded tape recording, find blank cassette, find dubbing equipment, dub recording onto cassette, find envelope, find stamps, put together contest entry, mail contest entry, wait for the doctor to win contest and leave the house...). That stuff was really fun as a kid when I had a total of 5 games and had all the time in the world to focus on one game. Now, it's just torture.

HOWEVER

I backed this project for the documentary, not the game. I'm loving the documentary, and I will be perfectly happy with just the awesome videos. Still, I will be unlikely to recommend the game to anyone else, unless I actually like it. I love Psychonauts, so a really good Psychonauts adventure game would be really fun... if it's not like all the other adventure games out there.

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This is why I finished S&S:

It was short, and there were no puzzles involving walking back and forth across 5 minutes of backdrops.

have you played the same game? the majority of the game is just that.

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This is why I finished S&S:

It was short, and there were no puzzles involving walking back and forth across 5 minutes of backdrops.

have you played the same game? the majority of the game is just that.

Haha, I think they were stressing the puzzle part.

I liked a lot of elements of this game. I'm not done yet. I had a lot of the same issues with it that some of you have mentioned. The thing is, playing this has felt a lot more like reading a good book than playing a video game. Can't quite put my finger on it, it's different than just the typical forced storytelling. It's worth checking out but I bet it annoys people too.

Pc port is pretty frustrating and the characters look really bad (don't know if that was on purpose or just low budget). I stay for the music and writing.

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i still played the game a bit like an adventure game. lots of exploration etc. i liked the tongue-in-cheeck pretentiousness, music and graphics...and GOD those trigon battles. the music oh the music.

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