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rubyhope

Documentary:Status

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Making movies takes a lot of time, more so than it takes blood, sweat or tears.

When I first heard 2PP were doing a monthly documentary I was kind of astonished, I would wonder "How the hell do you take a month of footage, all those numerous hours, and turn it into a coherent story for about 20 or so minutes and STILL have it done and edited in the same month?" Turns out you actually CAN'T squeeze blood from a stone, so nobody should really be upset. Logistically, things just happen. Especially something like film making where any small problem snowballs into a cavalcade of ridiculousness. 2PP is just a small group of people, they aren't Paramount and a documentary isn't exactly a closed set.

So just relax everybody, it'll come when it's neat and tidy.

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To be honest, when I first heard about “Transparency” “Warts” and “Documentary” I had something a lot more raw in mind, though I thought it too good to be true (since it impacts DF as a business) than the heavily edited (no spoilers!) yet largely entertaining Episodes we get.

Still, I don’t care about the schedule so much, only I think it indirectly affects the other development update posts (big revelations are probably saved for Episodes, like the game concept).

We are already getting updates with at least a solid month in delay (or so it feels I could be wrong about that) we don’t need any more delays added to that.

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OK, and I know that much, doing it myself sometimes.

Your are comparing feature docs with monthly episodes?

The editing process is not that elaborate.

It can be, but it shouldn't. The episodes should keep us up to date.

And Documentarys should be about the content, not the look.

And it's nothing bossy about expecting something they promised. ("monthly","next week")

Yes, we donated, but not for charity ,but for a particular purpose.

The whole Projekt ist about trust. That's why you should keep your promisses.

And communicate if something goes wrong (somebody gets sick, brocken Computer)

I get what you are saying. I was under the impression that they were planning to combine all these episodes together into a feature documentary that they would sell. Like I thought that we are seeing the pieces of a feature each month, kind of like how authors will sometimes release a novel in serial format where they release a chapter a month or whatever, so when you put the chapters together it makes one big feature. Maybe that's not the plan with this documentary, but that's kinda how I envisioned it, I guess.

You're right, it's not bossy to expect something they promised. However, they promised to make a documentary. They didn't promise to leave out fancy titles, animations, etc., and make it as raw and unedited as you'd like it to be. Perhaps they want a more polished documentary. That's not breaking a promise. If the remaining episodes have the same style as the first 2, then I would expect things to have a decent amount of polish and editing.

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I've been as anxious for the next episode as anybody, but I can't say that I'm surprised or particularly upset by this. Delays are bound to happen. I know a little bit about film editing (having done it a couple of times for small amateur projects) - it's ridiculously time consuming. And sometimes you find out you need something you're misisng, and then you have to go back and film some more and things just happen, especially for a small group. I agree with the other's who've said they're making a feature - that's certainly what I understood to be going on. Each chapter like the next part of what will ultimately be a feature length film about the making of the game. And for a while now I've been wondering how long they can keep releasing 20 mins. a month - at that rate, by the end of development I figure we'd have 5-6 hours of footage. It runs the very real risk of becoming incoherent and boring. They have to pay attention to the overall structure of both each episode and the total project (to the extent that they can predict it), to make sure it remains a compelling narrative, and that may require them to wait for certain things to happen.

But I will fault them for lack of communication. It shouldn't take very long to alert people that there's been a delay.

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I'm not particularly bothered by delays, I just like some communication. I'm definitely willing to wait if waiting means a better product or something beyond anyone's control caused a delay, but it's no fun being left in the dark.

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I don't quite understand what communication people want. It's obviously delayed and they will release it when it's ready, we can figure as much out by ourselves. What else is there to communicate? I'm sure there could be a big reason or several tiny little ones or they could come up with a number of excuses and I'm sure if it was anything we'd need to know they'd have told us. But I wouldn't care one bit to know how Final Cut kept crashing or how 2PP people caught the flu or had to deal with unforeseen personal problems etc., all I care about is that the episode is delayed and that it will be released when it's ready. Forget about it, that's the way to make it arrive sooner, don't just stay up all night waiting for Santa.

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Agreed, sh$t happens, but the fact that it is near approaching the end of the month and we have no updates etc is a little disheartening. Honestly, if i was told the next doc was pushed till next month, i would have no problem with that. its the lack of communication that is unfortunate.

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I don't quite understand what communication people want. It's obviously delayed and they will release it when it's ready, we can figure as much out by ourselves. What else is there to communicate? I'm sure there could be a big reason or several tiny little ones or they could come up with a number of excuses and I'm sure if it was anything we'd need to know they'd have told us. But I wouldn't care one bit to know how Final Cut kept crashing or how 2PP people caught the flu or had to deal with unforeseen personal problems etc., all I care about is that the episode is delayed and that it will be released when it's ready. Forget about it, that's the way to make it arrive sooner, don't just stay up all night waiting for Santa.

I think it was because we had gotten so used to a nigh-constant stream of communication from DF and 2PP, that the relative silence over the last few days combined with the delay made some people a bit antsy. Any sort of communication can be enough to calm people down, even just an official acknowledgement of the delay.

Since we've already gotten our answer from 2PP and DF, I'll just sit back and wait.

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I don't quite understand what communication people want. It's obviously delayed and they will release it when it's ready, we can figure as much out by ourselves. What else is there to communicate? I'm sure there could be a big reason or several tiny little ones or they could come up with a number of excuses and I'm sure if it was anything we'd need to know they'd have told us. But I wouldn't care one bit to know how Final Cut kept crashing or how 2PP people caught the flu or had to deal with unforeseen personal problems etc., all I care about is that the episode is delayed and that it will be released when it's ready. Forget about it, that's the way to make it arrive sooner, don't just stay up all night waiting for Santa.

I think the problem was that a week ago we found out at the last possible moment that it was going to be delayed until this week, then this week we found out at the last possible moment again that it was delayed again, which means that we've spent both last and this entire week waiting for the episode only to be told 'no' at the last moment.

I'd think they would at least have some idea of whether it was happening or not before the very end of Friday, and it would have been nice to have been informed so that we knew not to expect it this week. Instead the perception is that we're being told about it almost as an afterthought - I'm sure that's not true, but I think it's not an entirely unfair interpretation, either. That and the fact there haven't been any developer updates for a while is, I think, what is causing the impatience.

As for me, yeah - I'm just looking forward to the episode whenever it comes. But I maybe would have gone to bed an hour earlier on a couple of nights this week if I'd known not to expect an episode (which we were told to expect). Not a huge deal, but still... some sort of deal.

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Maybe something nice would be writing in this thread the progress percentage on editing and post production, like:

Filming - complete

Editing- in progress: 50%

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Surplus, this is the last message I saw from last week, it doesn't say anything about the actual release date. Did I miss another announcement?

The plan really was to have it out this week! Unfortunately, it took a bit longer than expected. It'll be out as soon as it's ready, which should be quite soon.

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Maybe something nice would be writing in this thread the progress percentage on editing and post production, like:

Filming - complete

Editing- in progress: 50%

Yep, that's why it's there. Levering_2pp, would now be the right time to announce the name of the episode?

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On the bright side we have almost everything shot for episode four and we're going to try and get that one out in a more timely manner.

That's what matters.

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I don't mind the delay, but as everyone else said, it's the silence that has been most terrifying. No update on Ep 3's name, or a rough release date. But it said the recording was done(from about the time Ep 2 was released), so confusion ensued. Thanks again for the update DF Chris Remo and 2pp, and I look forward to the episode!

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Surplus, this is the last message I saw from last week, it doesn't say anything about the actual release date. Did I miss another announcement?
The plan really was to have it out this week! Unfortunately, it took a bit longer than expected. It'll be out as soon as it's ready, which should be quite soon.

My mistake, they didn't specify it'd be this week, although I think it was reasonable to anticipate it'd drop this week based on that message. I mean (and I'm not trying to be negative, this isn't a big deal or anything unless it happened every time) this is more than a 'bit' longer than expected, now. It's quite a significant delay. Again, I'm not tearing my hair out here, I can just see why people would think that it's been too quiet.

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I would prefer updates as close to real-time as possible rather than 2 months later.

Bit of an exaggeration I think! Personally I'm totally cool with there being these polished episodes designed to tell the big 'story' of the making of the game, as well as the sidequests which go into more detail on specific aspects. But I do think there also needs to be some sort of window onto what's happening RIGHT now (or at least close to right now) and I wonder what might be done about that.

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Surplus, this is the last message I saw from last week, it doesn't say anything about the actual release date. Did I miss another announcement?
The plan really was to have it out this week! Unfortunately, it took a bit longer than expected. It'll be out as soon as it's ready, which should be quite soon.

My mistake, they didn't specify it'd be this week, although I think it was reasonable to anticipate it'd drop this week based on that message. I mean (and I'm not trying to be negative, this isn't a big deal or anything unless it happened every time) this is more than a 'bit' longer than expected, now. It's quite a significant delay. Again, I'm not tearing my hair out here, I can just see why people would think that it's been too quiet.

Three is about ready to go, it's getting the audio worked on right now and it's more laborious than usual. It'll be out early next week barring any unforeseen complications.

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Surplus, this is the last message I saw from last week, it doesn't say anything about the actual release date. Did I miss another announcement?
The plan really was to have it out this week! Unfortunately, it took a bit longer than expected. It'll be out as soon as it's ready, which should be quite soon.

My mistake, they didn't specify it'd be this week, although I think it was reasonable to anticipate it'd drop this week based on that message. I mean (and I'm not trying to be negative, this isn't a big deal or anything unless it happened every time) this is more than a 'bit' longer than expected, now. It's quite a significant delay. Again, I'm not tearing my hair out here, I can just see why people would think that it's been too quiet.

Three is about ready to go, it's getting the audio worked on right now and it's more laborious than usual. It'll be out early next week barring any unforeseen complications.

Thanks for that Paul, I think we're all a lot happier now that we're hearing from you. :)

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so the only thing that can stop it is a scientific experiment with teleportation triggering a resonance cascade? sounds good to me.

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so the only thing to stop is a scientific experiment with teleportation triggering a resonance cascade? sounds good to me.

I cannot state this without enough undue emphasis!

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Three is about ready to go, it's getting the audio worked on right now and it's more laborious than usual. It'll be out early next week barring any unforeseen complications.

es9aap.jpg

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so the only thing to stop is a scientific experiment with teleportation triggering a resonance cascade? sounds good to me.

So I know you're talking teleportation, but I wanna post this anyways...

tumblr_ls94wh6mvI1qffrt7o1_500.gif

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Surplus, this is the last message I saw from last week, it doesn't say anything about the actual release date. Did I miss another announcement?
The plan really was to have it out this week! Unfortunately, it took a bit longer than expected. It'll be out as soon as it's ready, which should be quite soon.

My mistake, they didn't specify it'd be this week, although I think it was reasonable to anticipate it'd drop this week based on that message. I mean (and I'm not trying to be negative, this isn't a big deal or anything unless it happened every time) this is more than a 'bit' longer than expected, now. It's quite a significant delay. Again, I'm not tearing my hair out here, I can just see why people would think that it's been too quiet.

Three is about ready to go, it's getting the audio worked on right now and it's more laborious than usual. It'll be out early next week barring any unforeseen complications.

Thanks for the update.

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I don't really care about the production quality of the films as long as they look good when they come out on Blue Ray.

The files go online as far as I know anyways, (between Europe and US,) so why not just upload a workprint every now and then.

I'm going to watch the entire series on the BR anyway so just getting something that kind of is current with what's going on at the studio would be preferable.

I think it ties in to the complete transparency thing, and frankly to be honest I thought that we would be able to kind of have an idea of where the game was at when the doc's came out. Cause as far as I remember that kind of was the pitch. The videos are great, but they are for the backers.

Now they feel kind of like for a bigger audience, which is cool, but it shouldn't be released before the entire doc is completed. What's in the doc is over 2 months later than the current things going on and nothing from meetings and discussions. It's more or less been portraits of Tim or Ron, not that it's bad, but it's not really documenting the current status.

I love how much updates Oliver, Chris, Greg and Lee are churning out, but the way the doc is going right now I strongly feel that it's kind of headed in the wrong direction; I thought it was supposed to be for the backers so that we were supposed to have the game production on tape in case the whole

game was a "complete failure".

The first Episode was pretty much based on something all the backers knew already, and personally I think it would have as a Prologue (Episode 0) on the final DVD/BR.

The Second one was great, but again what bothers me is when it came out. Because I kind of expected the content to be in the first worked better as the first episode because it really was the first with backer exclusive content, (again remember the audience.)

I haven't made a game before, I want to at one point, and I thought this documentary was going to give me a good idea of the time and pacing of a production.

Well, sure episode 3 isn't out yet so I shouldn't be to quick on the trigger, but that's the point; it was filmed over 2 months ago, that's a huge gap to fill! And pre-production really is where all the creative stuff happens so I kind of feel robbed from the best part of the production. Portraits are good and all, but what are you 2pp going to film while the actual game is in mid production and everybody is churning at their computers?

Let's see some of the other Employees at DF early, (before they reach crunch and are super stressed.) Transparency... it's a thing.

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I don't really care about the production quality of the films as long as they look good when they come out on Blue Ray.

The files go online as far as I know anyways, (between Europe and US,) so why not just upload a workprint every now and then.

I'm going to watch the entire series on the BR anyway so just getting something that kind of is current with what's going on at the studio would be preferable.

I think it ties in to the complete transparency thing, and frankly to be honest I thought that we would be able to kind of have an idea of where the game was at when the doc's came out. Cause as far as I remember that kind of was the pitch. The videos are great, but they are for the backers.

Now they feel kind of like for a bigger audience, which is cool, but it shouldn't be released before the entire doc is completed. What's in the doc is over 2 months later than the current things going on and nothing from meetings and discussions. It's more or less been portraits of Tim or Ron, not that it's bad, but it's not really documenting the current status.

I love how much updates Oliver, Chris, Greg and Lee are churning out, but the way the doc is going right now I strongly feel that it's kind of headed in the wrong direction; I thought it was supposed to be for the backers so that we were supposed to have the game production on tape in case the whole

game was a "complete failure".

The first Episode was pretty much based on something all the backers knew already, and personally I think it would have as a Prologue (Episode 0) on the final DVD/BR.

The Second one was great, but again what bothers me is when it came out. Because I kind of expected the content to be in the first worked better as the first episode because it really was the first with backer exclusive content, (again remember the audience.)

I haven't made a game before, I want to at one point, and I thought this documentary was going to give me a good idea of the time and pacing of a production.

Well, sure episode 3 isn't out yet so I shouldn't be to quick on the trigger, but that's the point; it was filmed over 2 months ago, that's a huge gap to fill! And pre-production really is where all the creative stuff happens so I kind of feel robbed from the best part of the production. Portraits are good and all, but what are you 2pp going to film while the actual game is in mid production and everybody is churning at their computers?

Let's see some of the other Employees at DF early, (before they reach crunch and are super stressed.) Transparency... it's a thing.

I understand your points and even share some of them but it’s too late for them to change their basic format.

I wasn’t familiar with 2PP’s past work before this project, though I had heard about PA and Minecraft I didn’t know it was the same people, and I didn’t see any of it either, so I don’t know if the Documentary for this project is how they normally do things.

As I said in my previous post, I was expecting something a lot more raw, particularly since transparency was a big part of the pitch, I expected people followed around by a camera catching things as they happen, all edited together for our convenience of course.

That’s not what this is, but is still entertaining, given that they already basically have 4 episodes shot, the format is not going to change suddenly because some of us expected something else, plus it wasn’t part of their initial planning and vision anyway.

So yeah, let’s just enjoy what they give us, and though I know a lot of people here care deeply for the Documentary, and now I guess I care too. But during the campaign for me the documentary was an afterthought, I pledged for an ‘old school adventure game’ by DF, Tim and Ron and that’s what I hope to get, having a Documentary like this is a bonus.

Of course, if *deity of your choice* forbid the game turns out to be a failure, a step by step making of would have made up for that, so let’s hope it turns out great!

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Yeah I just want to clarify that I did pledge for the game fist and look at the doc as a bonus. That's why I'm saying that I'd rather have the polished doc on BR/DVD once The game is shipping than have to wait for the polished episode to come out. I'd actually be happy with a survalence cam at the corner of the office building. J/K, but seriously like the game, it's a WIP so why not just post the rough cuts online as well? It's not like it will ruin future sales and the format of the actual doc can continue. I actually like the side quests more than the documentary right now, because it actually shows more of the mistakes that had been made before comming into the conclusion, and what not.

If they just filmed and rough-cutted everything they could polish the whole thing as one movie at the end. It will even make the DVD better as it won't have credits every 20 minutes. As far as I know their earlier docs were not episodics and also, correct me if I'm wrong, not actually documenting the makings of a game, but rather the success of Minecraft. So I think comparing these would make less sense, but on the editorial side of things.

I think 2pp are a bit too careful in sharing their mistakes and kind of forget that the content is exclusive to backers that really can only benefit them in terms of making their final product shine. Feedback is awesome and through here, (the backer forum) they can get it for free.

So in short:

Let them keep up with the formula,

But also post some rough cuts that are current.

We'll all probably see the final product anyway and we already paied for it so there's nothing to loose.

Except for hosting space... But that's a whole lot cheaper than new camera equipment and workstations. Might be wondering if their using this equipment for something different? Nah, that would have been unethical, atleast before this project is done.

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Nice to hear something from 2PP about the documentary status. But why don't you post that information in the Documentary Status Thread?! I mean that's what it's there for and that is why people subscribed to that thread.

I think it is pretty lame to not get updates over the designated update thread but instead in some thread opened by other people asking about the documentary status.

Please, PLEASE, use the update thread. And if you only post "Sorry guys, EP3 is being delayed" that's OK too! At least it's much better than not to know anything.

Thanks!

Edit: Typo

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Let them keep up with the formula,

But also post some rough cuts that are current.

I wouldn't mind to see some rough cuts, but I doubt it will happen, it will probably dilute the final from of the Episode, unless they specifically pick stuff that won't be included in the final cut to share.

Might be wondering if their using this equipment for something different? Nah, that would have been unethical, atleast before this project is done.

I don't see anything unethical about that, cameras are tools, if they used them for another project as well since they got them is completely natural, they are not going to hide them away if they got something else to shoot, because this project was the reason they bought them for. Unless you're suggesting they used this project as an excuse to buy stuff for use in other projects, but that would be a serious accusation and I doubt you meant that.

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