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ReverendBeast

Iron Brigade Urban Legends.

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(Bling paintjobs do have the highest success rate when it comes to spotting people who are bad at the game! For me at least x3)

Boomerang- If you line up the bottom of the crosshair with the volty (no matter where you are on the map) It will ALWAYS home in directly on him.

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Thankfully dying out if not 'dead' - the ironclad sniper is the epitome of volty dropping.. that Dang description. X3

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Its a myth that a white tuxedo represents good knowledge or integrity in an individual player. It's starting to remind me of bling now..

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;~;

;~;

;~;

;~;

;~;

ALL MY " ;~; "

Want so badly :/

Tied in with the White tux, I see a lot of people fall into a deep love for anyone with a fez (when mics are all involved which is rare) to the point of refusing to listen to any word from me unless I throw one on because there is no 'proof' of being passed 100.

Let's see... what have I heard/propagated/used to believe....

TO GET FLAME YOU HAVE TO GET TO 100 ON ALL MAPS >:L X3

SSMG are a clear and 100% replacement to rippers. Heard this MULTIPLE times. If it was a one time thing I'd say "Well one person's bad idea" but it apparently spread a little bit, but not entirely, to the random population :/

Dang... my brain is screaming that I'm forgetting a funny one...Ahh well, later. :3

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Hah. Since I'm still not a level 20, I don't have a white tuxedo anymore, nor do I have my old place on the leaderboards, my credibility with randoms doesn't exist.

SSMG are a clear and 100% replacement to rippers. Heard this MULTIPLE times. If it was a one time thing I'd say "Well one person's bad idea" but it apparently spread a little bit, but not entirely, to the random population :/

This is actually something I've been thinking about lately.

They can't necessarily replace them, but in certain situations they're just as good (if not better) because they do pull the same amount of scrap. 6 super shredders in the trees at swamp are going to be just as effective as a ripping Karlsson camped out there, just as 6 super shredders will perform identically at the base of the spire on Settlement.

Where the super shredders suffer is in the lack of mobility, the cost investment, and the inability to aim for jacobs instead of protected tubes. Where they actually outshine rippers is in their DPS. It takes three rippers to almost equal one super shredder. Not that DPS is a big concern when ripping, but two super shredders share roughly the same DPS as one pierce sniper...which isn't really that bad when you consider the cost between the two emplacements is more than doubled.

Something I've been thinking lately is that a Karsson with 3 rippers that places 3+ super shredders in high traffic areas may actually match the performance level of a Karlsson with 6 rippers scrap-wise...AND have 3 slots open for (insert weapon(s) of choice for high DPS here). The reason I believe it may match it scrap-wise is because you can essentially scrap tubes in two or more different places at once...and though it may be not be as noticeably concentrated (six rippers equals SCRAP RAIN), it's still going to average out as a lot (if not close to the same amount) of scrap over time...without as much running around...and still maintaining a high trench DPS for Jacobs.

If I had to go with one or the other exclusively, I'd choose rippers. But I think when used together a perfect balance of the two may be better than the sum of it's parts. In which I'm going to hypothesize that "SSMG's are a clear replacement for 50% of the rippers".

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Back to square one, eh Baddest?

Gonna start pounding out scrap traps?

I thought on that yesterday, how I've ignored scrap traps for SO long. Played with two traps yesterday and had some fun :3

You can never really say SSMG are worthless. But I'm still not putting them quite on par with rippers, mobility/dps (want it low)/TAKING UP EMPLACEMENT SPOTS

But yep, still amazing little buggers :3

And trading 3 rippers for 3 dps weapons is something I'm personally ENTIRELY against. It's two different jobs. I just keep thinking "Amp spawns, ripper NEEDS to go milk amp. Team loses three fiestas worth of damage AND the amp is scrapped half as quickly"

In this case I say neigh. No half and half for me :3 It might equal out in scrap, but you are making a deathly trade off in effectiveness. (mebe I think of this one event too much)

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I've made runs on swamp where I loaded out a Karlsson with 3 rippers and 3 Fiestas...

I loaded all the trees with SSH and the hill side as well. Added the DGs and put three SSH on the bridge...

It gave us more scrap than if I had played as a ripper...

The one caveat is it was a three trench run... But all the PSTs across the bridge (base side) were fully upgraded before wave 65 if I remember right.

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How is it a trade off?

3 muertas that aren't being used elsewhere also aren't being used elsewhere if you don't have them in the first place ;)

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Not denying having SSMG + rippers = more scrap (heck if each SSMG = one ripper it's basic math amirite?) I'm just still hung up on half and half builds because that one event pops into my mind ALL. THE. TIME.

Amp and lost damage with half as fast ripping going on :/

Makes sense that scrap turrets would make scrap afterall :3 and maybe I'm just too hung up on something so minor, but it's there *shrugs*.

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How is it a trade off?

3 muertas that aren't being used elsewhere also aren't being used elsewhere if you don't have them in the first place ;)

True, in that case you are just scrapping half as fast :P

Part of it is that originally this was argued to me by randoms, and they said to have two people with 3/3

I argued 6 rippers and 6 fiestas and they shot it down as stupid.

Can't really argue against that logic any more than saying slightly slower scrapping and maybe say SSMG < other turrets..... but that's a flimsy argument on my part x3

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Let's break this down into maps too. You're going to have to consider a lot of scenarios when contemplating replacing 6-Ripper Karlsson w/ 3-Ripper, 3-Fiesta Karlsson + SSMG's.

I've made runs on swamp where I loaded out a Karlsson with 3 rippers and 3 Fiestas...

I loaded all the trees with SSH and the hill side as well. Added the DGs and put three SSH on the bridge...

It gave us more scrap than if I had played as a ripper...

The one caveat is it was a three trench run... But all the PSTs across the bridge (base side) were fully upgraded before wave 65 if I remember right.

For example, on Swamp, the way Rev explained, I can see that paying off majorly in the end - I like that idea. The condiuts by the trees and the hill is where everything minus Burst Transmitters come out. The SSMG's there will scrap and damage the aerials that come out of both conduits all day long since they never have Jacobs, Amp's never get past the hill anyway, the SMMG's are not in the way at all, they can replace some Archie spots for less damage but more scrap, and they won't ever have to be replaced since there are no tubes that can reach or blow them up. Down side? Lots of scrap.

Settlement, I can't think of too many great places for SSMG's besides where we already put them. The middle has always been used for a scrap trap because that's the only path Burst Transmitters don't take and hordes of Blitzers do. I think the orange path past where Burst Transmitters get to wouldn't be bad simply for Big Willie trains - the only problem with this is some survival games never have Big Willie trains out of orange so you'd have to determine that first. You can sprinkle one or two on green base but it would take some time before they even pay themself off.

Makes sense that scrap turrets would make scrap afterall :3 and maybe I'm just too hung up on something so minor, but it's there *shrugs*.

You are. Naked Amps live for about 3 seconds right out of the spawn - not enough time to even process scraping them. And for the ones that have Jacobs, it doesn't matter.. All tubes are the same, each is capable of producing the same amount of scrap when shooting them with rippers. Amps just look cooler because all the scrap flying off the top of them and waterfalls down onto collectors as opposed to a Resistor where it just gets swept up under the rug so to speak.

We've discussed a 3/3 and 3/3 approach before. I've shot it down just because I didn't think you should mix the job descriptions together. I figure one person should only have to think about one thing which is either scrapping or killing. I still don't think it should be 3/3 and 3/3 but perhaps 3/3 and 6 Fiestas. You'll lose scrap but I say this because a 6 Fiesta Karlsson is the strongest defense against a VD and I wouldn't want to see 2 3/3's trying to run after one VD just to balance that factor out.

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I think the six fiesta Karlsson is a given... The 3/3 Karlsson is great for swamp as the scrap trap placement is more effective.

But as ccubage noted; for Settlement. I think the 6 Ripper and the 6 fiesta Karlssons are way better at getting the job done...

Even in the late game with two good engineers that are being fed by the ripper and the killer helping out with the Volty and Jacobs. I think that's the dream load out for Settlement...

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Even if you go half and half with the trench weapons, you're not necessarily half as good at two things, though...nor does it mean you have to fight between two roles. You just have to have the right balance of trench weapons and emplacements, and know how to play when. Sometimes versatility is good...especially on a map as big as settlement where you can't always have heavy damage in two places at once.

A 3/3 Karlsson (or the more popular 4/2 Karlsson) with super shredders is still a good loadout for a scrap focused role, because you can easily make up for the three missing rippers by placing enough super shredders elsewhere. The 3 muertas are a (significant) bonus for emergency damage or jacob removal.

However, a 3/3 Karlsson without super shredders is going to be a little more mediocre all around, because at that point you really are limited to collecting a relatively small portion of scrap for the size of the trench, and you only have half the potential DPS to be a true damage dealer. If you have something like knockbacks equipped, you can play with more of a focus on damage and kill boxes, and maybe justify the three rippers as "bonus" scrap.

And here's something else to think about for a pure scrap-focused role...

A Karlsson with six rippers and anything other than super shredders is going to be less effective at generating scrap than a Woodruff with four rippers, the same green emplacement, PLUS super shredders. Not only that, but the woodruff is more efficient when it comes to placing/upgrading...AND it can stall willies.

I know we've had the whole Karlsson/Woodruff ripper debate before, but the green emplacement choice really does have an effect on which performs better scrap wise.

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But, since you're playing on a team the SSMG advantage based on your trench's specific setup is irrelevant considering every chassis has a green or two besides the Hamer.

I like the 4/2 Karlsson paired with a 6-Fiesta Karlsson the most. What I don't like is two half and halfs.

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But, since you're playing on a team the SSMG advantage based on your trench's specific setup is irrelevant considering every chassis has a green or two besides the Hamer.

Trueeee.

But...would you rather have your engineers focused on snipers/mines or scrap traps? Also, the super shredder is the least expensive green emplacement for Karlssons.

I suppose the damage Karlsson could build scrap traps, but that doesn't really suit his overall role.

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Yeah, I guess I'm implying making the most of very specific/efficient roles...in such a way that you don't have to rely on someone else to do part of the job for you. So whether the scrapper has 3 rippers, 4 rippers, or 6 rippers, loading up with shredders taking the lead on scrap traps should be an integral part of the role. In a serious and well-coordinated run, it seems to make the most sense.

The other two roles being the damage dealer (full muertas, knockbacks, dampeners) and the engineer(s) (snipers/mines)

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More or less you are arguing we can trade the traditional 6 ripper for throwing more shredders. But what about just using a 6 ripper AND throwing more SSMG.

More scrap is more scrap, would that equal out to more damage thanks to piercing snipers? How many is too many shredders? BLARGHLE QUESTION? x3

When I woke up just now I was about to say what ccubage did- "team = more greens blah blah attribute to the ripper karl or to the team effort blah blah" but nevermind then :P

Pretty much I'm seeing the simplest way to view this as 'trade rippers for throwing a decent amount more SSMG than what we do on a normal run" Looks like we/I/whoever should start making scrap traps again and see how many is truly too many and when does the advantage of more shredders/rippers become hurtful (Sorta like that scrap efficiency chart, but more real world as it counts turret placement/map/amount of turrets/whatever)

...don't think I'll get to do this much on my normal games seeing how me = randoms = 'LET'S SPAM GREENS EVERYWHERE GUYZ' :/ But ok :3

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More or less you are arguing we can trade the traditional 6 ripper for throwing more shredders. But what about just using a 6 ripper AND throwing more SSMG.

Nah. I'm saying that a karlsson with any amount of rippers with super shredders has more upward mobility as far as scrap collecting goes compared to a traditional six ripper without super shredders. I'm not saying the karlsson HAS to forego rippers...but rather that they can replace a few with raw firepower and still be just as effective scrap-wise if they place super shredders effectively.

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True shit- confirms the idea that a good team that knows where to put shit gets farther :P

True. Shit. :3

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