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Aleix

Kickstarter unfair?

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You can pledge on kickstarter but you can't be pledged. That is the case if you are not a USA citizen, and the case is the bigger part. It might have some sort of sense, maybe international law?

In reality, when you think of it, it's like someone bringing their kids to your house and asking for food because they don't have any other options, and you feed them up because you want them to have a future. But then, you have kids and they are starving, and when you bring them to someone so they can feed up like you did before, the police blocks your way and forbids you from doing so because you are not American.

We, the kids of the world outside the USA are not entitled to have a future at KickstarterStadt nor KickstarterLand.

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It's not really Kickstarter, it's Amazon Business payment that requires you to be a US citizen in order to become an affiliate with them. And as they are the only payment partners with KS, you're stuck.

Amazon Business can only transfer funds to US bank accounts, but can process internationnal card as they use their billing plateform. That's why you can pay if you have a credit card, but can't get the money is you're a project creator.

I have the same issue, and KS are working on an internationnal version though, but it won't be that soon.

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Well, it's a bit of a relief to hear that they are working on an international KS. For the rest, would type again the same as first mentioned.

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There are a lot of European and Japanese devs I'd like to see Kickstart a project. It seems like a fair number of British people are showing up now, though. Maybe using shell companies?

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There were suggestions that a UK based kick-starter wasn't possible because it was likened to a Pyramid selling system, which is illegal in the uk, but a number of european sites have popped up which support the UK, so i am hopeful that Kickstarter do add a european/UK payment system (and i hope its on the same site and not a sister site, as that would be a shame).

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There are a lot of European and Japanese devs I'd like to see Kickstart a project. It seems like a fair number of British people are showing up now, though. Maybe using shell companies?

Or have US accounts or trustworthy American relatives/friends.

Besides there is always indiegogo or rockethub which uses paypal.

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There were suggestions that a UK based kick-starter wasn't possible because it was likened to a Pyramid selling system, which is illegal in the uk, but a number of european sites have popped up which support the UK, so i am hopeful that Kickstarter do add a european/UK payment system (and i hope its on the same site and not a sister site, as that would be a shame).
Carmageddon did it, and that was a British project.

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There were suggestions that a UK based kick-starter wasn't possible because it was likened to a Pyramid selling system, which is illegal in the uk, but a number of european sites have popped up which support the UK, so i am hopeful that Kickstarter do add a european/UK payment system (and i hope its on the same site and not a sister site, as that would be a shame).
Carmageddon did it, and that was a British project.

Yep they sure did. - I think they actually had someone in the US set it up though (Or set up a US company or something...) so it wasn't done directly by them in the UK.

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Yeah thats what i read on their project site, because every time a UK company appears on kickstarter thats one of the questions always asked :)

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That's kind of what I figured.

I really want to see an Eric Chahi or Frederick Raynal kickstarter. Ryuichi Nishizawa (creator of Wonder Boy) said he's been thinking about it, too.

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Trust me, there will be a Kickstarter-like service for videogames in Europe announced very soon.

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Trust me, there will be a Kickstarter-like service for videogames in Europe announced very soon.

Like, trust me I have a reliable source, or trust my theory?

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Though its great that there are other sites, at the moment its kickstarter that seems to have the bulk of users/pledgers. Other sites seem to be struggling in comparison. It would really take a special project for me to pledge on another site other than kickstarter and that seems to be the general feeling so far.

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Trust me, there will be a Kickstarter-like service for videogames in Europe announced very soon.

Like, trust me I have a reliable source, or trust my theory?

Just trust me. :)

http://uk.lab.gamesplanet.com/

Great, tnx for the link!

:cheese:

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Though its great that there are other sites, at the moment its kickstarter that seems to have the bulk of users/pledgers. Other sites seem to be struggling in comparison. It would really take a special project for me to pledge on another site other than kickstarter and that seems to be the general feeling so far.

Exactly.

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Double Fine made me create a Kickstarter account in a flash.

Pendulo will make me create a GamesPlanet Lab account as fast.

I don't care if it's Kickstarter or another site, what counts is the project that you want to fund.

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Double Fine made me create a Kickstarter account in a flash.

Pendulo will make me create a GamesPlanet Lab account as fast.

I don't care if it's Kickstarter or another site, what counts is the project that you want to fund.

True to some extent.. i didn't know of kickstarter until Doublefine, but when one site gets traction over others, then people will want to create their projects on that particular site. The more money KS will make, the more they can invest in improving their services/website.

The only reason Kickstarter hasn't totally fulfilled this situation yet, is only due to the fact that they don't have european projects available on it. Once they do, I don't think anyone will be able to touch them.

The quality and pledges on some of these other sites (and not forgetting projects worthy of gaming news/press releases) has been quite poor in comparison. So they need to up their game if they want to be truly in competition.

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Personnally, I find this loyalty to Kickstarter somewhat puzzling.

Kickstarter is a great site, but only because if offers great projects.

On the other hand, there are many things that could be improved according to me and I have seen any new features implemented due to their recent success.

As said in this thread, the site is unfair, since it only allows US citizen to put up a project. Plus it doesn't support multilingual at all, so good luck if your English is not fluent.

It only offers one survey to the backers once the project is completed, with no way to review or modify your address once it is done. It offers absolutly no garanty about the quality of the project or its completion. There is no way to edit the rewards once they have been chosen, even to clarify the text or to add something extra. And I can see many other things that could be improved or made more user-friendly, both for backers and project managers.

I do think that if a strong European crowdfunding site arises (or another US CF site that would fix some of these problems), they may have to face a tough competition. For example, Gamesplanet Lab seems to support many langages from the word go:

http://uk.lab.gamesplanet.com

http://fr.lab.gamesplanet.com

http://de.lab.gamesplanet.com

http://it.lab.gamesplanet.com

http://es.lab.gamesplanet.com

And since I am a huge fan of Pendulo, I'm really looking forward to support this campaign.

Like with DFA, if this first European crowdfunding campaign is successful, I'm certain it will trigger a lot of projects from great European designers that are dying to come back.

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Well no one has said that Kickstarter is perfect, it isn't by any means. But when you have some of the biggest retro/old school games appearing on it, then from a gaming perspective its currently the best choice.

Theres been:

Double Fine Adventure

Wasteland

Leisure suit larry

Two Guys Space Adventure

Text Murphy

Jane Jensens Adventure

Carmageddon

That game from the people that did Titan Quest

Xenonaughts

and thats not even all of the ones... I've forgotten more :)

So from a gaming point of view, no other site can touch it at the moment, you say you find loyalty to Kickstarter puzzling, well its not really is it, you said yourself you are going to support a game on another site... this is what all other people are doing also.. it's loyalty to these projects and at the moment kickstart is getting the better projects. That in itself creates a mass of users who come to the site, which in turn generates even more named projects launching on kickstarter because they know the user base is there.

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It is fairly logical that all americans projects choose to go on the most well-known american site.

But the reason I've pledge to Jane Jensen, Tex Murphy, Larry, SpaceVenture and Lilly Looking Though has nothing to do with Kickstarter. Kickstarter hasn't led me to these projects (other people pointed them to me) and I would have backed them on any other crowdfunding website. It's not like Kickstarter would send an email to all DFA backers saying "Hey, we're got another great adventure game for you!". It's more like, "hey, find the info yourself!".

So I really don't understand why you're (and other people say) things like

It would really take a special project for me to pledge on another site other than kickstarter and that seems to be the general feeling so far.

Does that mean that you pledge to projects that you don't feel are *special* just because they are on Kickstarter? Given that Kickstarter ONLY criteria of choice for a project is "you are american", and that they give no garantee at all about the seriousness of the project, why would you more easily back a project of KS than on any other CF site?

I'm sorry, I realize that I may sound a little bit aggressive here, and that's not at all my intention. :-/

I'm genuinely trying to understand.

Is it just because you don't need to create a new account and all the projects that you are backing are managed from the same interface?

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I think there is some misunderstanding here.... will try to clarify my points..

When I first heard about Doublefine it was from gaming websites, I had *Never* heard of kickstarter before that (or visited any of the other sites). So having interest in that, I went to the site. I actually totally forgot to pledge and missed the closing date (fortunately I have been able to pledge after the event for DoubleFine), but the positive press for Double Fine continued... and shortly after, Wasteland 2 came along. Having played many games made by Brian Fargo.. i felt inclined to pledge as some of my greatest gaming moments have come from that studio. I have pledged for other Big name old school projects, because they have appeared on kickstarter also, it wasn't because they appeared on KS but because they were things i was really interested in.

Does that mean that you pledge to projects that you don't feel are *special* just because they are on Kickstarter?

Well anything i pledge to, I certainly have a reason to pledge to it... but ..

I don't have lots of time, i certainly don't have time to browse through multiple sites looking for things that i don't know of. The same reason i read only one gaming news website most of the time, the same reason i use a particular web search engine or browser or only read the BBC news website. Time and convenience.

So i won't go looking for projects, but if i read about one i really want to support, i will go visit that site and pledge on it... but so far nothing has been of interest, and the games i have been interested in have appeared on KS.. so why go anywhere else :D

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I happen to have a preference to Kickstarter projects over others. First of all, it's convenient to have all the projects I back in one place, with a single interface for updates and communication. Secondly, I like the payment system. I like it that I can change my pledge easily and don't get charged until the project is backed. It makes it feel easier for me to pledge. That's something that other crowd funding sites don't do.

Kickstarter isn't perfect, but I think I'll stay with it for now. (And BTW the first thing I ever backed was on Indiegogo.)

On this particular subject, Amazon.co.uk also provides a similar payment mechanism, and I'd imagine its other European subsidiaries do. I can only hope Kickstarter will take advantage of them.

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I agree with you on that, their payment system is clean and easy to use (except for people who don't have a credit card).

I don't know if other CF sites offer the same kind of functionality.

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While there are a lot of things I don't like about Kickstarter (there could be an entire thread dedicated to this topic), I like the fact that you can change your pledge multiple times and you only get charged when the project ends. The flexible funding option on Indiegogo is very dubious. It is the kind of thing that invites scams. There will surely be a strong contender to KS in the future, which will fix a lot of its problems and provide some healthy competition, but for now I guess I'm gonna stick with it.

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