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Tim Schafer

Art Update 7: Searching for Sacrifice Girl

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D and L are my favorites.

With the female character can't you basically change her look/style as the game progresses? Maybe as part of the sacrifice she cannot cut her hair so it is super long in the beginning, but later when she rebels then she can chop it short and look more punk...or maybe it's just the beer typing.

Thanks for the info Tim.

-C

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Loving the face/head on E, that looks perfect. Actually, all of E is fantastic (despite the lack of detail) in particular, I think her body shape there looks great and would fit really well with the type of character that you're trying to create. Love the idea that some people have brought up of starting her off with long hair and then her cutting it off to something like what's in P. Perhaps she could do that after escaping/outwitting/defeating the monster, or whatever the no-doubt awesome story plan is.

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P is my favorite. She looks like the kind of girl who doesn't care much about the so called honor. And I like the more rounded face. But I'm not sure about the bleached hair color.

The only problem I see is that see doesn't look as someone who is chosen by the village for this great honor. Maybe she should start with clothes like D and a hair style like O. And after she runs away she tears her dress to something like L and cuts her hair to style P.

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The only problem I see is that see doesn't look as someone who is chosen by the village for this great honor. Maybe she should start with clothes like D and a hair style like O. And after she runs away she tears her dress to something like L and cuts her hair to style P.

I dig the visual transformation angle. It seems to me pretty much a given that this game will have strong character development, and seeing it expressed visually as well could be really cool.

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M is my favorite.

I imagine her fantasizing about what her great honor is going to be, completely ignorant to the fact that she's gonna get sacrificed.

Her face also looks younger than most fo the other drawings.

I really want to see a polished version of this sketch regardless of it being in game or not.

Great work :)

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E and J realy like the feathery bustle

O has my favourite face

P is my favrouite hair but should be darker

not a fan of any of the hats, would rather free hair with feathers in it.

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I hope the costume of R gets into the game somehow, as the sacrificial garment she needs to wear but doesn't want to. Apart from that one, my favourites are F, G and P. To me those fits the description of the character in different ways that I like.

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Tim, Sacrifice Girl cannot be like Nausicäa or any other free-spirited girl you mentioned.

She can, maybe, become one during the adventure, but she definitely cannot start out as one: she was chosen to have the great honor to be hush mumble mumble, which means that she is rooted in tradition and fits into the customs of her clan. It's an honor, and she loves it, and takes pride in it, the other girls are all jealous of her and trying to take away her enjoyment and... well, then she finds out that she's gonna die.

No self-respecting clan leader picks the independent girl heroine for a sacrifice, simply because that one has already run away from jerk clan and is not available for picking anymore. Or she has actually run off to kill the monster herself, but that's an entirely different story.

In that light, I would look for a design that shows innocence and the potential (but only potential) to stand against her fate. I love design O because of the barbed hair: the barbs are not part of her body yet, but she's gonna need to integrate those barbs if she wants to survive. The face looks a bit mysterious and slightly mischievous, I would cut out the latter in the beginning and make it more docile, or perhaps prideful reflecting her being the chosen one. A barbie with barbs, so to speak. Err. The other design look either so docile that they are going to be eaten by the monster, or so independent that they already ran off.

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Tim, Sacrifice Girl cannot be like Nausicäa or any other free-spirited girl you mentioned.

She can, maybe, become one during the adventure, but she definitely cannot start out as one: she was chosen to have the great honor to be hush mumble mumble, which means that she is rooted in tradition and fits into the customs of her clan. It's an honor, and she loves it, and takes pride in it, the other girls are all jealous of her and trying to take away her enjoyment and... well, then she finds out that she's gonna die.

No self-respecting clan leader picks the independent girl heroine for a sacrifice, simply because that one has already run away from jerk clan and is not available for picking anymore. Or she has actually run off to kill the monster herself, but that's an entirely different story.

In that light, I would look for a design that shows innocence and the potential (but only potential) to stand against her fate. I love design O because of the barbed hair: the barbs are not part of her body yet, but she's gonna need to integrate those barbs if she wants to survive. The face looks a bit mysterious and slightly mischievous, I would cut out the latter in the beginning and make it more docile, or perhaps prideful reflecting her being the chosen one. A barbie with barbs, so to speak. Err. The other design look either so docile that they are going to be eaten by the monster, or so independent that they already ran off.

Aye, this. Well said.

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I really like the outfit on E and the leg shapes in the earlier drawings. The stockings/socks/segments on the legs in E are probably my favorite. S has this kind of wild girl feel to it, and I like that a lot. S girl seems really capable and independent. Has anyone read evan dahm's Vattu? Because I could see S acting a lot like vattu...

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Tim, Sacrifice Girl cannot be like Nausicäa or any other free-spirited girl you mentioned.

She can, maybe, become one during the adventure, but she definitely cannot start out as one: she was chosen to have the great honor to be hush mumble mumble, which means that she is rooted in tradition and fits into the customs of her clan. It's an honor, and she loves it, and takes pride in it, the other girls are all jealous of her and trying to take away her enjoyment and... well, then she finds out that she's gonna die.

No self-respecting clan leader picks the independent girl heroine for a sacrifice, simply because that one has already run away from jerk clan and is not available for picking anymore. Or she has actually run off to kill the monster herself, but that's an entirely different story.

In that light, I would look for a design that shows innocence and the potential (but only potential) to stand against her fate. I love design O because of the barbed hair: the barbs are not part of her body yet, but she's gonna need to integrate those barbs if she wants to survive. The face looks a bit mysterious and slightly mischievous, I would cut out the latter in the beginning and make it more docile, or perhaps prideful reflecting her being the chosen one. A barbie with barbs, so to speak. Err. The other design look either so docile that they are going to be eaten by the monster, or so independent that they already ran off.

Well, there's a lot of assumptions you make in that post.

For example, how do you know how they are selected? Maybe it's random, or someone sees who to select in a vision. Maybe she was selected owing to some sort of shenanigans? Maybe the people who choose know what the deal is with the eating any everything, so they tend to choose people who don't fit in. All we know is 'chosen by her village', we don't know what that means.

Also, how do you know what she's like in public as opposed to privately? Perhaps when she's with other people, she's the perfect villager, but when she can get on her own she displays her more independent, possibly mischievous side.

We know this is a coming of age story, so we know the character will go on some sort of journey into being able to control her own destiny, but we don't know very much at all about the circumstances in which the the girl finds herself in that position or what any of that really means. I'm sure all of this stuff is stuff that Tim has thought about, because it's been his stated intention to make that sort of story.

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My personal favorites are S and M (blob-thing is awesome!). I like the expression of girl S, as well as the eyes and the hair. The pose and the expression have a bit of a dark feel to them, but funnily enough there's also something playful about it. She seems to me to be someone that won't allow her fate to be decided by someone else. I like M mostly because of the blob-thing and because she and it seem to be very happy - maybe she's finally found a way to avert her fate with the help of her blob-thing friend?

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Tim, Sacrifice Girl cannot be like Nausicäa or any other free-spirited girl you mentioned.

She can, maybe, become one during the adventure, but she definitely cannot start out as one: she was chosen to have the great honor to be hush mumble mumble, which means that she is rooted in tradition and fits into the customs of her clan. It's an honor, and she loves it, and takes pride in it, the other girls are all jealous of her and trying to take away her enjoyment and... well, then she finds out that she's gonna die.

No self-respecting clan leader picks the independent girl heroine for a sacrifice, simply because that one has already run away from jerk clan and is not available for picking anymore. Or she has actually run off to kill the monster herself, but that's an entirely different story.

In that light, I would look for a design that shows innocence and the potential (but only potential) to stand against her fate. I love design O because of the barbed hair: the barbs are not part of her body yet, but she's gonna need to integrate those barbs if she wants to survive. The face looks a bit mysterious and slightly mischievous, I would cut out the latter in the beginning and make it more docile, or perhaps prideful reflecting her being the chosen one. A barbie with barbs, so to speak. Err. The other design look either so docile that they are going to be eaten by the monster, or so independent that they already ran off.

Well, there's a lot of assumptions you make in that post.

For example, how do you know how they are selected? Maybe it's random, or someone sees who to select in a vision. Maybe she was selected owing to some sort of shenanigans? Maybe the people who choose know what the deal is with the eating any everything, so they tend to choose people who don't fit in. All we know is 'chosen by her village', we don't know what that means.

Also, how do you know what she's like in public as opposed to privately? Perhaps when she's with other people, she's the perfect villager, but when she can get on her own she displays her more independent, possibly mischievous side.

We know this is a coming of age story, so we know the character will go on some sort of journey into being able to control her own destiny, but we don't know very much at all about the circumstances in which the the girl finds herself in that position or what any of that really means. I'm sure all of this stuff is stuff that Tim has thought about, because it's been his stated intention to make that sort of story.

^What he said. And to add my own questions:

Why can't a girl start out free-spirited? Plenty of girls (and boys) start out that way in adventures. It doesn't matter what your characters start out like, as long as they develop, and learn something, and are somehow better people by the end.

How do you know she would love being chosen for the ritual? Presumably you think so because it is a tradition of her people, but that doesn't matter. That is why we have words like "defector" and "apostate" and "rebellion" and "dissent" and "heretic", etc. People do that sort of thing all the time, and not just in stories. Didn't Pixar just make a movie called Brave about a young girl who rejects tradition? Does Pixar suck at telling stories? Does that movie's good reviews mean that nobody noticed that her actions didn't make sense? I think it's more likely that this is exactly the kind of thing that makes for an interesting start to a story.

You tell Tim that you can't have girl start out as ALREADY an independent, free-spirited heroine type character, but then you mention that a clan-leader would never pick her, because no self-respecting clan leader would pick a girl like that. How do you know what the clan leader is like? How do you have so much insight into the reasoning behind the behaviors of these fictional people you did not create? How would the clan leader know she was that kind of character if she's either not allowed to be yet (per your rule of thumb) or else hasn't had the opportunity to fully exhibit those qualities yet? And even if he did know, how do you know him so well to think he wouldn't pick a girl like that? How do you know he even HAS self-respect? Are you writing this story or is Tim?

You make a lot of assumptions about the way a story should be told and about the personalities and motivations of characters that you did not write and which have not been revealed yet.

I think we can trust by now that Tim knows how story telling works.

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D and J from the top...

O (love the hair, really catches your eye) and R from the bottom. I very much like the idea of them sticking her in some over the top outfit as a part of the ceremony.

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I looks vaguely Egyptian. I like.

(Also like L because of the can-do attitude, although I have no idea what's giving me those vibes)

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You make a lot of assumptions

You’re all making assumptions.

This is what we know:

The girl is destined to be food.

Her village seems to view that as a joyous event, given that her send of is tied to a birthday party, Peter Chan’s concept work showing signs that write “Be Yummy” and stuff like that.

On this very thread Tim described the basis of her personality as independent and free spirited.

That’s it basically.

We don’t know at this time if she defies her village and the monster on the way to his lair, starting the journey all willing and happy to be food, or if she escapes from the very start and her journey is one of comforting the monster so she doesn’t let her village hanging. Since if she defied them at the start, the monster was going to do whatever it is supposed to do when the monster doesn’t get his food (eat the whole village?).

It is safe to assume that the choice for her to be food is taken some time before the actual send off, or it wouldn’t be happening right as she reaches a certain age, it may have been a year before or from birth for all we know.

We also don’t know the nature of the monster and its need of sustenance, is it one of mere flesh? Or something deeper likes the soul of the girl or something.

With so many gaps missing I think any analysis of the story, and whether is right for her given her upbringing to be free spirited and independent from the start are moot.

Then there’s the concept of conventional design, I’m not sure if Tim is trying in any way to be original or provocative and deep with the story, so at the end we get some allegory about the monster being modern consumerism or some stuff like that.

Don’t think that’s his style, I expect comedy not another Ulysses.

I caution, given the ‘no spoiler’ clause the project currently has, not to be getting hanged up on story issues since were not getting much of the bigger picture until the beta at least, everything we going to learn until then will be bits and pieces from other work.

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You make a lot of assumptions

You’re all making assumptions.

Right, who knows? Is she really a girl? :roll:

Oh my, The Crying Game :gulp:

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You make a lot of assumptions

You’re all making assumptions.

I don't think I made any, except that which we've already been told.

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You make a lot of assumptions

You’re all making assumptions.

I don't think I made any, except that which we've already been told.

"Maybe it’s random, or someone sees who to select in a vision. Maybe she was selected owing to some sort of shenanigans?"

That is an assumption. For all we know Ettin makes a good point and Tim didn't really think about it (see assumptions are easy).

My general point is that we don't know enough about the story, to be making or refuting theories and most importantly this isn't right place to do it.

So if you guys have nothing better to do but argue the details of something you barely know the basic premise of, go ahead, just make your own thread in the feedback forum, last time I checked this was about concept art or something.

And that is my last word on this.

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Hands down, P is my absolute favorite. I like her kind of punk rock pose and her squinted eyes.

I have a much easier time imagining a voice and characteristics from her than from the other sketches.

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N, O, P and Q are better IMO. I think the other ones, particularly the earlier ones look too old for the characters intended age. I think it's because she looks too lanky.

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You make a lot of assumptions

You’re all making assumptions.

I don't think I made any, except that which we've already been told.

"Maybe it’s random, or someone sees who to select in a vision. Maybe she was selected owing to some sort of shenanigans?"

That is an assumption. For all we know Ettin makes a good point and Tim didn't really think about it (see assumptions are easy).

My general point is that we don't know enough about the story, to be making or refuting theories and most importantly this isn't right place to do it.

So if you guys have nothing better to do but argue the details of something you barely know the basic premise of, go ahead, just make your own thread in the feedback forum, last time I checked this was about concept art or something.

And that is my last word on this.

"Maybe it’s random, or someone sees who to select in a vision. Maybe she was selected owing to some sort of shenanigans?"

I know you said that's your last word... but again, how is that an assumption? The whole point of what we were writing, which you surely would have gleaned had you been paying attention, was to point out that the other guy was making a lot of assumptions, and then speculating on how those assumptions might (might!) be wrong. That's just about the opposite of making assumptions. Maybe he does have a good point, but he made it based on a whole bunch of assumptions, and our point in replying to him was to show (with some speculative examples that were clearly marked as such), how we don't know enough yet to really know for sure.

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R really gets the sentiment across, though is more relevant to a specific moment at which we'll see her.

O seems great.

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I have to say i do like the face on O but something about L speaks to me as well. I think its the outfit, kinda like she tore her costume off. I think maybe the best would be a mix of some of both maybe. Just my 2 cents.

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First off thanks for this opportunity to add to the game. I hope my views can be of some help to you.

The following seem to me to be the best examples of a spirited and brave young girl without her becoming a caricature too comical in her bravery to be taken seriously.

D, N, Q

From what I understand of the concept this is a girl who's trying to defy social conventions in her society, that is choose an alternative to the "be eaten alive" option that's been practiced for centuries previous. Under this guiding point:

N seems to be the best option.

D at first seems appealing, she seems a bright and cheerful sort of girl who you could easily see choosing her own life over the social customs and religion of her people. But her wardrobe and cheerful demeanor detract too much from the independence that's so central to the bravery being shown by her actions in the game. She's way too much of a caricature to be what's needed.

Q does solve the caricature problem with a more low key appearance and a facial and body expression that reeks of defiance. This though I can't say I prefer for two reasons: one, she looks too much like Raz. The most obvious part of this reason are her eyes but her over-all appearance and evoked emotions just are too similar to the Psychonauts protagonist to support one of the over-arching purposes of this project: that is as a brand new adventure game IP. The second reason is that she's too serious. She'd be too much of a contrast from the old school art style you guys are going for and would be more of an impediment to the humor than a help.

So N is the best choice from what I can see. She has the air of independence that you'd need in order to show off the bravery of the character while also possessing a laid back quality. This latter element I see playing well with the overall painterly art style you're going for based on the Lumberjack test vids you've shown us so far. That and also I can see her being someone that you'd generally admire, a trait that can easily play with the boy in the space ship who is your game's second protagonist. I hope this helps.

FFSamurai05

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