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JediJedah

Swamp without snipers????

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I've done hospital solo w/out snipers using mines with a honeychurch. Lately I've been obsessed with clearing swamp doing the same thing. Its hectic nearly the whole time since the only way I see it being possible is with a selker I since super shredders, archies, and dampeners are vital.

My best is 56 so far. I got to 77 when I had a partner. I was wondering if anyone has tried doing this before and if there are any other spots aside from between blue and green where archies will hit the vault dropper. It always seems to boil down to either not enough mines or not enough archies....

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I believe our cop-out wave was 86 when the 'challenge fucks' gave it a run a while back.

Considering both our irrational thoughts and our rational thoughts (Our mathematical explanations and our "Yeah those suck" explanations) we came to believe it's not exactly possible. We milked it for maximum possible damage against volt dropper and no ground hits, and yet it still always ended in the 80s. Snipers are just too valuable.

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Also...factor that health goes up when you have a team....which is why i'd rather do it with only one other teammate at a time. It just sux soooo bad when I have to decide between building or collecting scrap during a few seconds before next wave. I wonder if theres any spots outside of the map where archies would hit the vault dropper too. I notice that if you put an archie on the square block in front of blue thats on the left of the tankers in the water, that archie will hit the vault.....but by then its already gotten its shot off. Maybe archies on the corner of the wall by the start of the bend would hit it???

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You probably want to roll out with a honeychurch/selker I and a karlsson fiesta load out for the volty and clean up. Add that with a little luck and it might work.

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A honeychurch with mines soloing hospital? Call me a skeptic.

And yeah, a two man team is probably the optimal number for swamp without snipers...if it's possible.

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A honeychurch with mines soloing hospital? Call me a skeptic.

And yeah, a two man team is probably the optimal number for swamp without snipers...if it's possible.

Honeychurch would never work solo....shredders AND archies is mandatory. Its why I solo with the selker I. Aside from the armor deficiency, it freakin' rules! Hospital is almost as frustrating as settlement when solo b/c of the friggin' snipe tuters w/ jakobs waves....on swamp I tend to lose large chunks of base health on blitzer waves if I don't pay attention whilst building.....maybe I should do patches of mines at the spawns and the bases before filling in the middles???? I abandon mission if the first vault dropper or first arty gets a shot off too. 2 shredders at the corners where you cut up to long path by the bridge and 1 dampener on bridge column closest to green...lead the blitzers in circles around the shredders, hide under the bridge so the noids get shredded....if done right, you can build 1 fully upgraded archie and an archie upgraded once by green before first vault comes out. I also notice more lately that when I upgrade that first dampener a lot of times it seems to cancel out down below, but still seems effective on top of the bridge....WTF!? Does anyone ever put it more towards the middle or end of the support column as opposed to the corner (or slightly to the right of the corner itself, if ya wanna get finicky about it)? I think the d-g on the right side may touch fields w/ the one closest to green. Also...the li'l tree by the front of the bridge...you can build a d-g there and it works pretty good and it gives you a sliver more space on the bridge to build on the left edge of it where shredders go...idk if anyone else does that when they goof around...I just think its funny.

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I've done hospital solo w/out snipers using mines with a honeychurch.

I can see it being possible with the Selker I. You mentioned doing it in the honeychurch in the OP and that threw me off. Good stuff.

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I just noticed my last run 20 minutes ago that a shredder on the right corner and one at the peak of the bend in the water work better against the noids and aerials....thats if the wave is kind enough to send them that way....i don't build anything around blue till after first arty, pretty much. Sometimes i wonder if 3 shredders would be a better idea...like the 2 corners at the cut-through and one on the bend, instead of a d-g at the right of the d-g triangle on the bridge. I've been driving myself insane the last 2 weeks working on this 'swamp w/out snipers thing'....settlement solo w/ snipers w/ a selker I wasn't this frustrating. I'm gonna try 3 shredders this time and see if i can get the archies up in time.

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3 shredders allowed me to make 2 archies upgraded once. I didn't get hit by a vault till the 40's...i had 70% on blue and green by mid 50's. Wave 60 or 61 was an amp and willy train from bridge spawn. The amp got knocked behind the mountain on the left of spawnpoint....

I go after the jakobs on the willy thinking the amp is stuck and a shredder on a tree patch will slowly take care of it....next thing i know ....

amp goes FLYING and lands RIGHT IN FRONT OF GREEN...i thought it'd be glitched and the shredders over there had it...nope. I look at base health and its down to 30!. I panicked too much and didn't think to hold the first willy and the 2nd willy finished off green. I exclaimed quite a bit of profanity loudly to myself (I'm sure the cat heard me wherever she was in the house) during the death scene. I never had base health that good at 50 before. If any of the wonderful DF ppl who does the code for this game reads this....you ppl are BRUTAL. Its like the amp is a towering stack of scrap like a gift or it flies somewhere ridiculous and its a matchwrecker...especially when it flies out the map and you can't even get the 100 b/c that glitches the entire match (its happened to me 3 times so far) and final wave never ends.

side-note: I put the dampener to the end of the support column closest to green right before the square block at the end of the bridge...it worked great till i maxed it out. I'm starting to really think that a lvl 3 d-g overlaps w/ the field of the d-g on the right of the bridge. I may never make it lvl 3 again.

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Did you try this with a team of 2? I really don't think it's possible solo

My best so far as a duo is 77....we could've done better, but at least 3 mistakes were made (not calling out, not paying attention b/c of building, etc.).

My best so far solo is 61 or 62....I'm not giving up till I figure this out. I spent weeks solo w/ a selker I on settlement till I got it (I had snipers....I'm skeptical if theres enough positions on settlement where archies hit the vault)....I'll spend months on this if thats what it takes.

I was experimenting last night and I noticed that archies placed on the buildings and tankers at the upper left in front of blue hit the vault. The vault will blast them, so they need to be upgraded.....which really sux when solo b/c of the time to build and trench positioning on the map issue since I have to get my own scrap w/ a selker I. This idea can't be too different than figuring out where shredders will hit the vault on hospital....but then again I put them wherever I'd put snipers once I get good scrap flow or 'if a mine don't go there...put a shredder', so it didn't take as much strategy as this in the end. I don't think hot pants are nearly as effective with the dinky li'l selker I either....a cathy will get pushed back (lulz), but blitzers still smash into you and you can't really force your way through the center of a pack of resisters to get to a jakob. I also figured out that if you put a shredder on the tree that is closest to bridge spawn in the cluster of trees between air/blitzer and bridge spawn, you can still put a shredder on the mountain to the left of the trees.

Side-note: Does anyone think doubling mines is more effective than one set of mines right at bridge spawn....I know this wouldn't allow for a dampener unless one was placed in a tree. I'm curious if anyone does that, considering most would spill off the sides, but jakobs tend to fall off off the path sometimes (left and right) or the amp hangs out near the tree cluster between the spawns occasionally which would draw jakobs that way when a willy basically says 'gtfo of my way.'

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A honeychurch with mines soloing hospital? Call me a skeptic.

And yeah, a two man team is probably the optimal number for swamp without snipers...if it's possible.

Honeychurch would never work solo....shredders AND archies is mandatory. Its why I solo with the selker I. Aside from the armor deficiency, it freakin' rules! Hospital is almost as frustrating as settlement when solo b/c of the friggin' snipe tuters w/ jakobs waves....on swamp I tend to lose large chunks of base health on blitzer waves if I don't pay attention whilst building.....maybe I should do patches of mines at the spawns and the bases before filling in the middles???? I abandon mission if the first vault dropper or first arty gets a shot off too. 2 shredders at the corners where you cut up to long path by the bridge and 1 dampener on bridge column closest to green...lead the blitzers in circles around the shredders, hide under the bridge so the noids get shredded....if done right, you can build 1 fully upgraded archie and an archie upgraded once by green before first vault comes out. I also notice more lately that when I upgrade that first dampener a lot of times it seems to cancel out down below, but still seems effective on top of the bridge....WTF!? Does anyone ever put it more towards the middle or end of the support column as opposed to the corner (or slightly to the right of the corner itself, if ya wanna get finicky about it)? I think the d-g on the right side may touch fields w/ the one closest to green. Also...the li'l tree by the front of the bridge...you can build a d-g there and it works pretty good and it gives you a sliver more space on the bridge to build on the left edge of it where shredders go...idk if anyone else does that when they goof around...I just think its funny.

Edit: I was meaning in this that a honeychurch would never work solo in swamp...I did beat hospital solo w/ a honey. I spent a week working on it.

Tip: shredders go before collectors by snipe spawns, so they can reach the snipes better.

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A honeychurch with mines soloing hospital? Call me a skeptic.

And yeah, a two man team is probably the optimal number for swamp without snipers...if it's possible.

Honeychurch would never work solo....shredders AND archies is mandatory. Its why I solo with the selker I. Aside from the armor deficiency, it freakin' rules! Hospital is almost as frustrating as settlement when solo b/c of the friggin' snipe tuters w/ jakobs waves....on swamp I tend to lose large chunks of base health on blitzer waves if I don't pay attention whilst building.....maybe I should do patches of mines at the spawns and the bases before filling in the middles???? I abandon mission if the first vault dropper or first arty gets a shot off too. 2 shredders at the corners where you cut up to long path by the bridge and 1 dampener on bridge column closest to green...lead the blitzers in circles around the shredders, hide under the bridge so the noids get shredded....if done right, you can build 1 fully upgraded archie and an archie upgraded once by green before first vault comes out. I also notice more lately that when I upgrade that first dampener a lot of times it seems to cancel out down below, but still seems effective on top of the bridge....WTF!? Does anyone ever put it more towards the middle or end of the support column as opposed to the corner (or slightly to the right of the corner itself, if ya wanna get finicky about it)? I think the d-g on the right side may touch fields w/ the one closest to green. Also...the li'l tree by the front of the bridge...you can build a d-g there and it works pretty good and it gives you a sliver more space on the bridge to build on the left edge of it where shredders go...idk if anyone else does that when they goof around...I just think its funny.

Edit: I was meaning in this that a honeychurch would never work solo in swamp...I did beat hospital solo w/ a honey. I spent a week working on it.

Tip: shredders go before collectors by snipe spawns, so they can reach the snipes better.

How many times did you get the Volt Dropper/Snipe Tuners with Jacobs/Blitzers with Jacobs wave? I've been to 96 with the Honeychurch solo with almost 75% base health using Lasers and Ironclad Flak, but that volt dropper wave beat the hell out of me every time I hit the 90's...hence the skepticism...and lack of interest in ever trying to complete it. If you used only mines and super shredders (substantially less effective vs. the Volt Dropper than the Ironclad Flak and Lasers combo...both in Range and DPS), I'm struggling to see how you could possibly take down the late game Volt Droppers unless you managed to avoid that wave type altogether...which is possible, I suppose...I guess I never bothered learning the wave patterns on hospital.

When we beat hospital without any orange emplacements we ran into the same problem with the late game Volt Dropper/Snipe Tuner/Blitzer waves. If I recall correctly, that particular wave type usually happened around 3-4 times per game...and when it happened, it usually took a good 30% of our base health every time...which meant we always prayed it'd only happen 3 times at MOST.

I'm still pretty skeptical. If you really did manage to pull it off, you must have gotten REALLY lucky with the waves thrown at you.

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When I go honeychurch I always use the albert, thats prolly what got me the win, baddest. I always prayed that the mines would take care of the ground during a vault wave. I tried going w/out snipers w/ the selker I, but you just don't get enough scrap to upgrade mines sufficiently in time what w/ the constant running around for scrap....had to give up archies for a collector. I put shredders EVERYWHERE (seriously) where mines would be pointless. I might've gotten some mercy from the game w/ later vaults...I think it was harder doing it with snipers in a selker I, honestly....snipe tutors with jakobs reign hell upon you (after a few jumps and only 1/6th health restored...one snipe shot and you gotta 'mash button' again...3-4 times in a row on some waves! WTF, indeed). I prolly had 7% base health w/out snipers (if even that much) when final wave was done.....but it was done.

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I'm gonna bet heavily that the winning factor was due to the wave patterns and not the use of an Albert. That's not to say that using a particular wave pattern isn't legit...because we did the same thing when we beat Settlement 100%.

There's probably no need explaining that the Fiestas have more than DOUBLE the DPS per slot (88 vs. 33) and have more than enough range to follow the Volt Dropper as it circles Hospital. The Albert is incredibly sub-optimal on a Honeychurch...even if the player can somehow average 2 hits per shot.

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I'm gonna bet heavily that the winning factor was due to the wave patterns and not the use of an Albert. That's not to say that using a particular wave pattern isn't legit...because we did the same thing when we beat Settlement 100%.

There's probably no need explaining that the Fiestas have more than DOUBLE the DPS per slot (88 vs. 33) and have more than enough range to follow the Volt Dropper as it circles Hospital. The Albert is incredibly sub-optimal on a Honeychurch...even if the player can somehow average 2 hits per shot.

Yea I see your point....like in swamp...I think I fare better when wave 1 gives me 2 pairs of tommies along w/ the bursts and blitzers. I also figured out I get more scrap if I run all the way down to long path spawn and get 'pulled' into the water path....the blitzers chase me longer so the shredders have more time to shred. I think one fully upgraded and one on first upgrade happened from only building 2 shredders and saving that 32 scrap, but I like building 3 in the beginning since I shoot at the vault and it goes down w/ 1 full upgrade and one not upgraded yet when it gets by green on the first vault. I have a lot more respect for the fiesta since I noticed I can shoot at blue from the bridge. "DPS"...damage per second...damage per shot? Albert does a hair less damage per shot (fiesta=108/albert=105.3), but the reload is atrocious on the albert...I go w/ the albert for 'range and piercing over power'. I do love being able to pick off a jakob from orange thats over at green on settlement...or taking out a row of resisters when they're lined up. Your 6 fiesta loadout is pretty friggin' sweet, though. Also....if anyone is interested in a duo on swamp w/out snipers, pm me and I could give you my skype or something. I'm in australia now....the time here is 14 hours ahead of east coast in north america. We get charged by amount data usage, not monthly flat rate for interwebs in my area, so I'm not on randomly all the time anymore. If timing is convenient for both parties, could give it a go. I'm thinking selker I with a honeychurch so we get 3 blues, both ppl can do mines, 2 ppl can do shredders, and one person do archies. But then again, it might be better for 2 ppl to build archies b/c you just need a god**** lot of them later on and the honey is taller so it can upgrade things that the tiny selker I can't reach over by blue (at least I think it can't.....its a pain trying to build by the buildings when theres so much going on and every second is vital due to scrap loss...so i throw 2 or 3 and upgrade first after i throw third and if i can't get it right away i gotta run back to the bridge or wherever). Toxic corrected me, btw....we made it to 78, not 77. thats who i did swamp as a duo w/.

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Damage per second per slot.

Basically, it's the calculated DPS of a weapon if it were to theoretically occupy only a single weapon slot on the trench. It's the only way we've come up with in the past to compare the DPS of 1, 2, and 3-slot weapons. While it's true that the Fiesta and Albert look like they almost do the same damage numerically, you have to factor in that the Albert takes up two weapon slots in comparison to the Fiesta. So in order to compare the two, you have to either divide the overall DPS of the Albert by two, or multiply the DPS of the Fiesta by two. But, in order to get the actual DPS of each weapon in the first place, you have to time an entire clip cycle for each weapon. A clip cycle being the time it takes between firing the first bullet until the time it takes to finish reloading. And as you mentioned, the Albert has a longer firing rate and reload time vs. the Fiesta, which is a huge factor in the DPS.

If you haven't already checked it out, I posted a thread a while back (linked after this paragraph) that covered major DPS comparisons between the various weapons. Included in the thread is a spreadsheet comparing the more popular weapons and how they rank damage wise. The Fiesta has a DPS per slot of ~88.76 and the Albert has a DPS per slot of ~33.96. Which is pretty much the same as saying two Fiestas deal 177.52 DPS, and one Albert does 67.92 DPS.

http://www.doublefine.com/forums/viewthread/5971/

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Very interesting and informative, baddest. Still...I prefer to sacrifice power for range and piercing....if only there was a piercing slug shotgun, the albert would be obsolete for me.

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I'd like to go back to the topic....managed to get out of map in time to put a dampener by water spawn w/ light base damage from whatever, which pretty much took care of jakobs and burst transmitters when paired w/ the mines. I need to figure out what the ratio is of the vault (health increases every 10 waves for everything supposedly) to figure out how many upgraded archies i need out. Between blue and green, the left of green, around the building in front of green, the wall at the bend, the left side around the buildings when you run up there by the wall at blue, the square in front of blue by the 3 tankers in the water are all places i've noticed an archie will hit the vault. i wonder if shredders in the water outside the map by green would hit the vault...i think that spot is too low for archies, plus the rockets might get caught up in the trees.

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Are you still trying to solo this challenge?

Ok, so first of all Archies flat out suck for killing the VD and so do Ironclad Flak. You're focusing too much of your time on the baby greens hoping they will do the job oranges will. Obviously you still need them but don't rely on them alone. You're gonna need some real firepower coming from your trench and not turrets.

With that in mind, I recommend you go out with 1 Karlsson and 1 Hamer all Fiestas. That way you'll still have MMs, all your blues, and Archies/Flak Turrets. I don't even think you really need SSMG's because you have no PST's on the field consuming all the scrap. There should be plenty to go around to upgrade all your greens and MM's. Plus, you hardly even need any blues considering how small Swamp is.

That Karlsson with 6 Fiestas is going to do some serious damage to the VD, about 6,500 each trip he makes. Throw the Hamer in there with half the damage and you've got 9,750 guaranteed every time. That amount should carry a duo team at least into the 80's without any real threat. If you've conserved enough base damage by then you should be able to skid by past wave 100. GL

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Archies don't really suck. 5 or 6 fully upgraded at the left of green will drop the vault early on...and make a few more every couple waves. If you do it right, you don't even have to shoot at the vault after the 3rd vault wave and it drops right over the archies. Around the 50's the vault gets a bit scary. I still haven't broken into the 70's yet solo. Not having collectors and 25 health are the main issues when I solo w/ the selker I.

and yes....still trying...got to 60 yesterday. i'm not really online that much lately in iron brigade...basically just for leaderboards on sunday and i solo on swamp when i'm not playing fallout 3, reading, or watching something (boardwalk empire, mainly).

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Anti Volt Dropper weapons (from most awesome to most sucking)

Ironclad Sniper > Piercing Sniper > Almost any other kind of Sniper > Ironclad Flak > Laser Emplacement > Lt. Archie Flak

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I'll try it with ironclad flak and see if the vault drops by green....

got to 61 yesterday....not my best....but i haven't been very lucky lately

i keep wondering how far i would've gotten if that friggin' amp didn't fly to green a week ago...

Also...with the bridge...the dampener triangle...I noticed that if I put the dampener on the right corner (left of the bridge perspective), its pretty effective putting it on that square box thats on the left at the end of the bridge. I get enough space for one more shredder on the bridge before the dampener (unless I put it on the top-left corner and I can fill the entire left side of the bridge with shredders except for that 1st dampener's position) whilst the bridge and the bend below still get slowed down. The only problem is that bursts take it out if they survive the minefield in the water. Too many times the right corner of the dampener triangle seems to stop working....I keep trying new positions for it, other than the safe one on the support column....just wish I knew why it shorts out occasionally after upgrades.

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Tried it w/ ironclad flak....made it to 50. Need a heck of a lot more flak than archies to bring down the vault w/out needing to shoot at it. This takes away from mine building scrap. I tried making a lot of mines instead of upgrading as I build them. I'll try the flak again, but upgrade mines as I build them and not build so many mines at first, so I can put more scrap towards the flak. I wish I had a partner in this that'd run a selker I also..that way we could have shredders, archies, ironclad flak, dampeners, crane, and there wouldn't be just one person building mines. I guess a honeychurch as a partner would work well too. Its a hassle w/out it, but a collector isn't really necessary. I've solo'd all 3 maps w/ a selker I already. Archies don't have as much range as the ironclad, but they do more damage in key areas around the bases. Anyone know spots aside from around the bases where the ironclad flak hits the vault? I don't think archies hit the vault outside the map in the water by green, ironclad flak might...i'm willing to gamble running out the map w/ 400 scrap one round to find out...

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It's really hard to understand where you're having trouble with your emplacements without some visuals, so I can't really help you there.

Aside from that, you really should focus on reinventing your strategy.. Making minor changes like switching from Archies to Ironclad isn't going to be the game changer you need. It's a good step forward, though.

I'm a bit confused about your interest in the Selker 1. Yes, it's the odd-ball chassis, but why would you want to use it after assuming a two man team? And then having a duo Selker 1 team? It just doesn't make sense unless of course you're just furthering the challenge, which I'm all for.

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