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Eujin

Brazen is Amazing. Here's some Ideas/suggestions that popped in my brain while playing.

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Many thanks to DFBurger for inviting me to his game tonight.

To get the most important bits out of the way: Brazen is fantastic. I really enjoy the old school movie motif infused with both seriousness and classic DF humor.

My only thought was that if a lot of this is based around movies that used to have those awesome battles and giant claymation monsters, maybe a few more classes originating from other movies in the same vein as the old school Hercules/Clash of the Titan movies. A mystical persian pirate/sailor similar to Sinbad from The Seventh Voyage of Sinbad, or some sort of reflectively dressed scientist like many of the millions of old school US stop-motion horror films?

The persian adventure would seemingly fill the only thing I don't see already in the class lineup, a finesse based melee class, as while the Beerzerker seems close, it almost seems more like a melee brute, while the stalwart is a melee guardian.

Regardless of any of my nonsensical ideas, I really love what is in the game already, and can't wait to see it develop more.

To all the DF folks and forum goers, have a great holiday.

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I like the idea of more classes (or rather playstyles), but think they should go the Monster Hunter/Demon's Souls route where your equipment determines your playstyle rather than a choice in class. Their youtube introduction showed they want you to return to a boat as a sort of base or hub where I think you should be able to switch out equipment and what not, changing your class based on what weapon you choose.

That way at any point you and a bunch of friends can decide to all go in as beerzerkers and then immediately afterwards try all going the archer class while staying the same character. This amounts to little to no change in the game if each class only has 1 set of gear but I'm assuming you get to either trade or craft your kills into new equipment, if that's the case making equipment the "class" changer would be my suggestion.

Either way, prototype is extremely fun, and challenging, but the controls are quite good giving the harder difficulties the feeling that there are no cheap attacks, only mistakes on the player's part. I can't wait for a full release of this game and anxiously await further news!

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I am going to share my first impressions and instincts from steam that I told a steam friend, as it came with a raw idea while I was playing:

Wreck-It Spacedad ♪ ☢: heres my impression of the game

Wreck-It Spacedad ♪ ☢: it should be like

Wreck-It Spacedad ♪ ☢: you get set up before going into a stage

Wreck-It Spacedad ♪ ☢: and then you go find the monster, fight the monster in this big staged battle, and move through some dangerous traps/puzzles/challenges together as a group

Wreck-It Spacedad ♪ ☢: before fighting another monster in another staged area

Wreck-It Spacedad ♪ ☢: and with this a slight exploration questing feel to it

Wreck-It Spacedad ♪ ☢: like when i was fighting him "wouldnt it be cool if after this we went into a temple worked our way underground past some traps and fought THE GORGON"

Wreck-It Spacedad ♪ ☢: and then went through other challenges and fought a titan that rises out of the sea

Anyway - I am saying this because I love the idea of exploring the WORLDS that harryhausen created to find the monsters, not merely just fighting them. I want to have the adventuring feel to it connecting up the big heroic battles. The earthy, solid feel of where we were fighting in this prototype made me want to explore the island more with my friends after the battle ended - and then find more heroic challenges to face!

I'm uncertain about RPG elements as I like the action focus, but it would be cool if you could complete little challenges in the game world DURING a session or acquire environment items to help you on your group's quest. Like you grab an enchanted spear from a statue to harpoon a snakeman monster with. Or even make use of some magical weapons that themselves have "Harryhausen magic" to them - remember the magical weapons heroes got in those films?

If anything persists for the players between sessions it should be just unlocked setups of starting loot and cosmetic items though - I definitely would want a more action focused experienced with the RPG stuff to a minimum.

I love keeping the battles focused on bosses - the adventuring/exploring side could just be the thread connecting them together, similar to shadow of the collosus's minimalism.

Oh and for a full game - special context-sensitive attacks where you grab onto or climb on top of the monster would own. As would teamwork combo attacks with limited use for cool 'flashy' moments that reward the players for good teamwork - think like 'fastball special' from the Xmen and dual/triple-techs from Chrono trigger. For example, as beerzerker, I'd like to grab hold of a monster by the jaws while my teammates wail on him. Or grab onto a leg and clutch for dear life as I work my way up to stab a weak point, with my teammates keeping the monster distracted and from shaking me off.

That said, one thing I really liked was that the monster's attacks were very well telegraphed. In my first play session I was able to react quite well to incoming charges and area attacks in time to *barely* dodge out of the way (while my teammates were smacked around) and this clarity of what the monster is doing is something that I am very happy to see - as in some games, sometimes the boss or creature does a poor job of communicating to the player what it's going to do next and I suffer a blow for not spotting the vague action in enough time. For me the monster's actions were pretty intuitive to read, which made it more involved and exciting as I was a bit more connected with what was going on that way and didn't feel cheated even when I took blows.

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Why not take that idea and run with it a bit further with the various maps having the monster roaming freely (already the prototype kind of has this with the shore and the raised area) and you have to use clues to find it or lure it out (maybe a short puzzle type section inside the cave in the prototype?). I may be biased from my time with Monster Hunter games but I like the no character leveling but more of a focus on improving your equipment load out. Customizing your equipment to suit an environment or monster could add another layer of depth to it rather than always using the same set of equipment. Would make sequential challenges even more engaging if you have to plan out what you're going to bring to fell a couple different monsters, deciding to make one fight a bit tougher to make the next one weaker.

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I think what monster hunter does is great, but for me I'd want the focus to be on the brutal action rather than shuffling with inventory and numbers and stats - I liked that it was pretty much a pick up and play experience. It should be all about the DRAMA and swift thinking on the fly with heroic running about, angering the monster, hopping on the monster, smashing the monster, using the environment, etc. etc. etc. How good are you at working as a team? How good are you at dodging the boss? How good are you at adapting to what the monster does? How good are you at seizing opportunities for greater damage? How good are you at heroically protecting your teammates? Stuff like this is what I'd like to see addressed in the course of a game rather than stats and numbers.

I'm cool with changing up your character's weapons or tactics a bit though. (With cosmetic and weapon unlockables - I could even see nerfed-up 'joke' weapons being a fun challenge to try.) But I love that you can feel like a heroic Greek Myth demi-god straight away without any fuss. Handing a controller to a friend who immediately gets to kick ass as a drunken boxer hercules is super rad.

I'd also LOVE it if the difficulty curve went from easy all the way up to 'dark souls' level of challenge - with the toughest monsters in the toughest game mode being absolutely brutal but also EPIC, requiring a great deal of teamwork and fast reflexes to clear. (And based far more on player skill challenge level rather than simple artificial difficulty.)

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They could make some sort of compromise, perhaps all the early monsters in the game are doable with the starter equipment but then from the rewards you get from those you improve your chances for the later ones. Or have part of the game be about building up your equipment stores but at the same time having an NPC that offers you missions where you only get the specific gear he gives you that way at any moment and for any monster you can just go straight in without worrying about what's in your inventory. This way you still get the progression from the one method of questing as well as the jump straight in without worrying about your gear in another quest line. They could even do something goofy with some of the quests given such as everyone in themed costumes that the quest giver for some reason demands, this could also prevent the game from ever getting to easy if you reach late game gear but still want a challenge on earlier monsters since you never level up your stats and these quests would have static gear.

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I would prefer a 'left 4 dead' kind of approach where it's less about your stats and leveling and permanent loot you acquire for your character account and more about what items you acquire over the course of that play session itself. Being able to choose your starting loadout and cosmetic items would be okay though.

I definitely would want the game to feel like you just sat down to watch a Harryhausen movie with friends, so it's all set up for you to move together in an hour long or so play session. A harryhausen boss battling answer to Left 4 dead's episodic/movie feel. It would also give the opportunity to make it all much more story-oriented as you and your friends move through.

Anyway, I want an immediate feel where it's ALL about the gameplay and not really about grinding for better loot. Making the battles come down to player skill and teamwork rather than RPG stuff would be definitely what I'd want to see with this, for me personally.

If there are any RPG elements, they should basically just be 'fun new toys to play with' rather than stat based junk. Stuff that changes up gameplay in fun and satisfying ways, and offers different interesting ways to play.

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Hmmm, well either style is fine with me I suppose. Personally I'd prefer both options be present in the game (a "use your own gear" and a "here's your gear" approach) but I suppose its too early to really tell which way Double Fine is ultimately going to take it. As long as the gameplay remains similar to whats in the prototype I'll be buying the full version.

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Also the simplest way to handle all this is to just make a cool array of (possibly unlockable) different character types. So you get a new set of 'toys' to play with in each one, different playstyles, etc. Aside from that getting pick-up or special items when in the actual game and alternate skins would be nice.

As a side note, I'm often amazed by how well a lot of Harryhausen fight scenes hold up to this day - particularly this one:

In addition to the fantastic animation, the live actors really got into it and 'sold' the performance.

In this game, our avatars AND us - the players - will be the ones 'getting into it.' ;)

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I want to be able to cook the meat of beasts I've slain while I'm on my journey to slay other beasts. I also want the ability to pitch tents. If I've slain more beasts than my friends, I want my tent to be much larger than theirs. Also, I want to put up trophies of those beast around my tent so my friends know how much better I am than them.

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I want to be able to cook the meat of beasts I've slain while I'm on my journey to slay other beasts. I also want the ability to pitch tents. If I've slain more beasts than my friends, I want my tent to be much larger than theirs. Also, I want to put up trophies of those beast around my tent so my friends know how much better I am than them.

I'm way thumbs up on all of these suggestions.

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It's a really interesting idea to take the game in a more Left 4 Dead direction where there's no leveling up or loot. But! I think that the long term investment in your character and gear is an important part of this experience.

That doesn't mean that we're going to dumb down the action elements! I think that if you play the prototype you'll see what we're going for. Putting in levels and xp and crafted gear does not turn your game into a gear check MMO. We wouldn't let that happen. :D

Thanks for all the fine suggestions you guys! I hope you're digging the prototype!

Brad!

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Yeah if there are RPG things I would want them to take a backseat to player skill and be less about number crunchery.

I am a big fan of the idea of getting new toys to play with when you get new loot - instead of going from a +2 bow to a +3 bow, instead you go from a bow of spread attack lightning bolts to a bow of grappling hook tie-downs. I dislike it in fantasy gaming when the only thing that makes a weapon 'magical' is it gets a boring damage bonus or something similar - but I love it when you, say, get a sassy talking sword that you can use as a boomerang-like weapon to lop off heads from a distance. Magical weapons in my view should open up new gameplay possibilities rather than merely just be stat upgrades. I'm also a fan of sidegrades and situational specialization rather than mere upgrades.

Also I'm always worried about games based around loot and levels that when you level and gear up enough the challenge factor goes way down.

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We're definitely on the same page, Spacedad! Don't worry about the RPG elements dumbing down the game. I think they'll only serve to enhance the game and make it more interesting! More customization, more diversity, more choice, less stats. :D

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Just make sure there's an old world looking drinking helmet for the beerzerker as a cosmetic unlock item and I'll be happy.

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We're definitely on the same page, Spacedad! Don't worry about the RPG elements dumbing down the game. I think they'll only serve to enhance the game and make it more interesting! More customization, more diversity, more choice, less stats. :D

So, are you going to finish the development of this great game? *_*

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There is a great suggestion in the "So I loved Brazen forum" by “Cygnus2122”.

The Golden Owl called Bubo could be added, as a counter balance to the rough and tough of the heroes. That owl was heaps annoying in the original film, kinda’ like C-3PO in Star Wars. Except it had the most derpy' way of communicating- flap wings, spin head and whistle.

I like it when annoying things get beat up, even if it is by accident. The owl could also serve as semi useful to the heroes and be the butt of some good slapstick comedy.

Can you please add the owl so it can get smashed, fixed then smashed again. I would love to see that over and over and over.....

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There is a great suggestion in the "So I loved Brazen forum" by “Cygnus2122”.

The Golden Owl called Bubo could be added, as a counter balance to the rough and tough of the heroes. That owl was heaps annoying in the original film, kinda’ like C-3PO in Star Wars. Except it had the most derpy' way of communicating- flap wings, spin head and whistle.

I like it when annoying things get beat up, even if it is by accident. The owl could also serve as semi useful to the heroes and be the butt of some good slapstick comedy.

Can you please add the owl so it can get smashed, fixed then smashed again. I would love to see that over and over and over.....

When I was a kid I loved that stupid owl. :lol:

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I love Bubo! :D! I was SO ANGRY with what they did to him in the new Clash of the Titans. I'm going to meet that director one day and give him a piece of my mind!

We talked a bit about the possibility of Companions that could accompany you on missions to help out. Or maybe they could just be cool vanity things that follow you around on board the ship?

Lots of ideas! :D!

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Maybe something along the lines of the fairy in ocarina of time - where it has an actual functional use as a cursor or something similar.

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With the extra keys we got I was able to drag a bunch of people into a multi-player game and we took down the Gorgoth. I wouldn't say it was easy but I wouldn't say it was hard either. Near the second stage when he started charging around we were taking some big hits.

Everyone seemed to enjoy it and I could probably convince them to pick up the full game. Most of the people in the group I play with are into character advancement and would like equipment or trophies. One of my friends who loves "winning" would love to see a stats screen after the fight broken down by each player.

I like the idea of a hub-world, you could take inspiration from different sources for each "world" you traveled to. From the more serious Harryhausen stuff to weirdness of Luigi Cozzi's Hercules (

)

I'd like to echo what I've heard others request, which was to get rid of the health bar for the monsters. Perhaps replace it with physical damage to the mesh/textures of the monsters.

In regards to the fights themselves, environment damage and traps would be nice. Say, have one player lure the monster over a pit and have two other players chopping at supports ready to drop the monster onto a lower level. But there's always the chance you could damage another player by accident. Branching fights would cool as well. For example: If you cut off one of the Gorgoth's head early he takes a lot of damage at once, but the neck stump sprays blood around for the rest of the fight which is poisonous.

Nice work!

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