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Lead protagonists who are female! (The White Birch, Black Lake)

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I'm not arguing that these games shouldn't ever have a female lead, just that choices should be given where ever feasible. Batman is batman, not Batgirl, but when creating new characters, it's pretty simple to allow a choice in most cases, it only needs an extra voice actor and an extra character model.

In an ideal world games would sell equally as well with male or female leads, but we don't live in an ideal world, so allowing the choice caters to both sides of the audience without damaging your sales. Is is really fair, well no, but me being born deaf wasn't fair either but it still happened. Work with what you have rather than to ideology and you are far more likely to make progress.

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Although if you want to use original characters as an example, God of War would be an entirely different game if the protagonist was a woman. It might have had the same gameplay elements, but it would feel drastically different.

Well You wouldn't expect for male to look like female or mage to feel like brute (warrior). You could have real "steel woman" there xD and nothing would change, only "what You think" could mess all around in Your head, or playing could feel totally different, but my point is that switching f/m doesn't means that games mood needs to be totally different, just because now protagonist is female or male. I'm pinpointing directly to what he said in first place:

Once the story gets more important it works better if the character is predefined. If you want a character to feel real and relatable you have to embrace all the things up that make a person, this includes things like gender, sexuality and relations between persons.

what points to stereotyping. God of War of course would be harder to crack, but what is the reason to not even try? That's probably bigger question behind. And there would be 2 protagonists, choose which style You like better. I don't know, I kind of don't see the problem with not having gender locked protagonist. Well, maybe in "gender" targeted games, but I don't know :D

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then, you want games with female protagonists and that is kinda difficult for guys (especially for guys like this) to do...right.

Write a male character. Make it a female. You're welcome.

Or if you feel that is truly disingenuous, find a female writer and ask for her to write the character. There are plenty of female writers around.

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Can I just say, I'm really excited to see people at Double Fine considering making female characters the sole playable leads of their respective video games. Especially after reading this article:

Games with exclusively female heroes don’t sell (because publishers don’t support them)

There are so few representations of women and girls as characters in video games who aren't ridiculously sexualized or relegated to "support" roles. It's nice to know that Double Fine doesn't feel that female characters can only play the male lead's love interest!

I can't wait to see The White Birch and Black Lake!

Good luck, everyone!

But most of those games listed are bad or at lest sub par. I think it's kinda unfair to be blaming it all on the idea that no one likes girls when most of these games in general were just not good to start with.

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Can I just say, I'm really excited to see people at Double Fine considering making female characters the sole playable leads of their respective video games. Especially after reading this article:

Games with exclusively female heroes don’t sell (because publishers don’t support them)

There are so few representations of women and girls as characters in video games who aren't ridiculously sexualized or relegated to "support" roles. It's nice to know that Double Fine doesn't feel that female characters can only play the male lead's love interest!

I can't wait to see The White Birch and Black Lake!

Good luck, everyone!

But most of those games listed are bad or at lest sub par. I think it's kinda unfair to be blaming it all on the idea that no one likes girls when most of these games in general were just not good to start with.
I didn't see any games listed in the article. The only thing I saw were pictures of Faith from Mirror's Edge (which is an excellent game) and Jade from Beyond Good & Evil (which is a God damn masterpiece).

Edit:It also mentions Tomb Raider and Portal. Neither of which are bad games.

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Can I just say, I'm really excited to see people at Double Fine considering making female characters the sole playable leads of their respective video games. Especially after reading this article:

Games with exclusively female heroes don’t sell (because publishers don’t support them)

There are so few representations of women and girls as characters in video games who aren't ridiculously sexualized or relegated to "support" roles. It's nice to know that Double Fine doesn't feel that female characters can only play the male lead's love interest!

I can't wait to see The White Birch and Black Lake!

Good luck, everyone!

But most of those games listed are bad or at lest sub par. I think it's kinda unfair to be blaming it all on the idea that no one likes girls when most of these games in general were just not good to start with.
I didn't see any games listed in the article. The only thing I saw were pictures of Faith from Mirror's Edge (which is an excellent game) and Jade from Beyond Good & Evil (which is a God damn masterpiece).
Both of those games got pretty bad user reviews, specially Mirriors Edge.

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True, but you start the game as Lightning, she's the only one on the box art, and she's the most interesting character in the game. Just because you don't control her 100% of the time, doesn't mean she's not the protagonist.

I always considered the hallways to be the protagonist in that game. They had the most screen time.

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I'm not arguing that these games shouldn't ever have a female lead, just that choices should be given where ever feasible. Batman is batman, not Batgirl, but when creating new characters, it's pretty simple to allow a choice in most cases, it only needs an extra voice actor and an extra character model.

In an ideal world games would sell equally as well with male or female leads, but we don't live in an ideal world, so allowing the choice caters to both sides of the audience without damaging your sales. Is is really fair, well no, but me being born deaf wasn't fair either but it still happened. Work with what you have rather than to ideology and you are far more likely to make progress.

I'm all for not "gender locking" characters when feasible. It usually prevents bad sexist, limiting writing that's often applied to female characters.

In my books though, marketing a female protagonist is about expanding your market and is an intelligent business move. Women are a LARGE market that hasn't even thrown half their purchasing power at the gaming industry yet. There's not many men left that you're going to convince to buy video games, because a large portion of them already do. Most of them are already established faithful consumer of video games and expending resources appealing to a market you've already got instead of new markets often leads to the death or decline of a company/industry. There are plenty of women/young girls who aren't yet gamers and they are gaining purchasing power at a quick rate. If I was a publisher, I would be foaming at the mouth to get my hands on the money from the market that I haven't reached yet and doing everything I could to make them JOINNNN USSS.

Edit: Just to be clear, I'm providing a counter-money/marketing argument to the "making female protagonists damages sales" marketing slogan. Fightin' sloppy generalization logic arguing the disadvantages with sloppy generalization logic arguing the advantages seems fair to me.

The 3 games with female protagonists were in the top 5 out of 23? which represents that most people don't really mind or may even like the female protagonists. The whole "there's no money/interest in titles with female leads" thing is just nonsense. This same nonsense is spread in the movie industry and prevents female lead movies from getting good budgets (same thing happens in gaming). We have some movies that prove that female protagonists can make money ~ times b' a changin ; brave, twilight, the hunger games all made mad profits.

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Female lead does not equal a game for girls. The two are separate and need to be thought of as separate. Capturing the female market will not be done through female leads alone.

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I've always been of the opinion that when creating art there should be no thought given to capturing any demographic of any kind. Art shouldn't be made to fit a specific sub set of a population's idea of what is good. It should be allowed to grow organically. If someone were to ask a developer why they had a female protagonist in their game, I would hope that the response would be to look at them like they are stupid, and reply "Because she's a girl." And companies that don't concern themselves about the artistic aspect typically are just going to go after the demographics they already know how to exploit.

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I've always been of the opinion that when creating art there should be no thought given to capturing any demographic of any kind. Art shouldn't be made to fit a specific sub set of a population's idea of what is good. It should be allowed to grow organically. If someone were to ask a developer why they had a female protagonist in their game, I would hope that the response would be to look at them like they are stupid, and reply "Because she's a girl." And companies that don't concern themselves about the artistic aspect typically are just going to go after the demographics they already know how to exploit.

Quite true. The issue here is most games are developed as commercial products, not as art.

Double Fine, to the bane of many publishers before, doesn't really see our games first and foremost as "products", which is also why it's funny when Tim one time internally referred to ourselves as a "non-profit" entity. HA!

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I've always been of the opinion that when creating art there should be no thought given to capturing any demographic of any kind. Art shouldn't be made to fit a specific sub set of a population's idea of what is good. It should be allowed to grow organically. If someone were to ask a developer why they had a female protagonist in their game, I would hope that the response would be to look at them like they are stupid, and reply "Because she's a girl." And companies that don't concern themselves about the artistic aspect typically are just going to go after the demographics they already know how to exploit.

Quite true. The issue here is most games are developed as commercial products, not as art.

Double Fine, to the bane of many publishers before, doesn't really see our games first and foremost as "products", which is also why it's funny when Tim one time internally referred to ourselves as a "non-profit" entity. HA!

I know, and I feel for you guys. What's clear about the games that Double Fine, and companies that seem to share your outlook on games make is that even when you make changes to a game for commercial reasons it tends to be because of publisher, or monetary pressure. The greatest artists throughout history have had to do the same thing. Michelangelo had the Pope literally beating him while painting the Sistine Chapel. The point is that you set out to make something beautiful, and as cheesy as this sounds, pure. It shows. The original concept, and vision may become diluted for one reason or another, but the finished product always stands out as being a work of love, and joy. And that's why I play your games, and spend all my money in your store, and tell everyone I meet to do the same. Because you aren't just making a product. You're doing something special.

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Female lead does not equal a game for girls. The two are separate and need to be thought of as separate. Capturing the female market will not be done through female leads alone.

Absolutely true. A title with a female lead character is no more an automatic favorite for a female consumer than a male lead is for a male consumer. People, male and female, clearly evaluate more than the gender of a game's character when considering if they like a game or not.

The issue here isn't that the game industry needs to make female-lead games if they ever want women to play games -- women are already playing games in as many varieties as men play games -- the issue is that there's an overrepresentation of men in games compared to women in games.

It's not a new problem by any means. Look at the "male gaze" issue in the movie industry and it's the same thing: the largest proportion of movies made in the last eight decades or so have a diverse array of male protagonists that objectify women characters. You could argue that things have been steadily shifting for the past several decades to make room for more and more films from a female perspective, especially in art cinema, international cinema, and independent cinema.

The real bummer, though, is that it's always an uphill battle for significant portrayals of women in any media to go from being considered niche or atypical into being more typical or mainstream. And if I were to hazard a guess, I would say that it's because less women are actually making games (in the same way that movie writers and directors are disproportionately men, most of whom write from a male perspective).

Which is why THIS is one of the most important points hit upon in this thread:

I am however, very much in favour of more representation of females in the industry.

...

I'd love to see more girls being encouraged to take up programming by introducing it in schools, rather then making it an optional subject once you hit college level.

Let's encourage more women to enter the games industry by not treating them like dirt!

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I just started thinking about these female-protagonist games and noticed that quite a few are quite passive (for want of a better word); with combat either non-existent or secondary to the main game mechanics.

Interesting realisation or utter rubbish? :)

I believe some of the ones anemone listed are adventure games so there wouldn't be much combat in those. Then there's Tomb Raider, Metroid, Bayonetta, and Lollipop Chainsaw which are all combat heavy. Beyond Good & Evil has plenty of combat, though it's primarily a stealth game. Final Fantasy is arguably combat heavy even though it's turn based combat. Maybe the rest have passive combat, but I'm not familiar enough to know.

Ah. I don't really know a lot of those games. I was going by the ones I did know - Portal, Mirror's Edge, Dreamfall, Syberia...

I will argue for Tomb Raider having combat as secondary though. I would have described them as primarily jumping-puzzle games. Figure out how to get from A to B, sometimes as fast as possible. The enemies to shoot seemed pretty secondary to me. At least, that's my memories of the earlier games, I don't know much about the later ones.

I guess I was just thinking that maybe there is a subconscious thought in writers that female characters suit puzzle and atmospheric games more and male characters suit violence more. Uh well, it would be hard to prove either way :)

Write a male character. Make it a female. You're welcome.

Some writers have done that, and I find the results interesting. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Delenn from Babylon 5.

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There's so many problems with female protagonists in general in games that I don't even know where to begin. I guess I can list some of them:

-Male action character in a female body...this is just lazy

-Floaty little waif types who are almost completely powerless...this is just cheap

-Girls using their emotions as a source of their superpowers...this just seems insulting

-Freaking stripper heroines. Stop. This. Please.

I also freaking hate boobplate and chainmail bikinis type outfits. This is just plain bad art and inexcusable exploitation.

What I want to see is a better representation of women in games as human beings. The objectification combined with writers/developers/artists unwillingness to put the effort into interacting with or researching how to portray women in a more human manner is, I feel, a major problem in the entertainment industry as a whole. Not just games, but just about any entertainment medium.

I also feel like there is this active laziness on the part of *CERTAIN CREATORS* to not want to put the effort in to actually talk to women in-depth or change their prejudices about women - it would explain why when stereotypes are exposed to developers, they seem to exhibit these feelings of emasculation and discouragement, as though 'oh god i have to do research about how women actually are in real life now??? But that's so harrrrrrd' were going through their heads. The privelege of being in a male dominated culture is that men don't "have" to pay attention to women very much - so a lot what you see entertainment creators make is based on ignorant assumption and stereotype.

That's not very surprising given that, like anything, if you don't even make the first step to research something or shape your understanding of it, you literally will have to begin with square one baby steps, which can be daunting to writers/creators/artists who (often somewhat incorrectly) think themselves accomplished and worldly or whatever. When the reality is, when it comes to insight regarding the opposite sex, they've been kidding themselves all this time and been basically never left the 6th grade classroom. Suddenly being told you have to do calculus when you always thought you could get by adding on your toes and fingers is of course a rude awakening, so many creators take the easy way out and just keep perpetuating stereotypes, often even claiming the stereotypes are 'ironic.' Please. Irony would involve having actual insight. Reinforcing a stereotype and then going 'BUT I WAS BEING IRONIC' is a 'dog ate my homework' excuse. Do your freaking research and get better at creating women characters, creators. Please.

Does this mean we can't have sexy female characters in games? Or politically incorrect possibly sexist humor that deliberately pushes the envelope? No, of course not - but it does mean that creators should make a major effort to get a well-rounded view regarding women, instead of relying on tired old cliches. It's possible to even make a game that pushes the envelope without reinforcing stereotypes - by being conscious of those stereotypes from a well-rounded view, and therefore knowing what envelope to push; stuff like that can become really good satire too. (Quite frankly, I think an envelope that needs pushing is taking male privelege down several pegs. Especially in video game "culture.")

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I don't think a female protagonist necessarily has to be any certain way. I feel like we just lack variety. We're actually starting to lose variety in our male heroes now, too, mostly in AAA space, not surprisingly.

I think that the ratio of playable females to playable males is so lopsided that whenever a playable female does emerge, we pin all of the things we want out of a female character onto that single character, and mostly end up disappointed, because she can't be everything. If there were more of them and there were more variety, we wouldn't need to have most of the conversations and rants we end up having.

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I don't think a female protagonist necessarily has to be any certain way. I feel like we just lack variety. We're actually starting to lose variety in our male heroes now, too, mostly in AAA space, not surprisingly.

I think that the ratio of playable females to playable males is so lopsided that whenever a playable female does emerge, we pin all of the things we want out of a female character onto that single character, and mostly end up disappointed, because she can't be everything. If there were more of them and there were more variety, we wouldn't need to have most of the conversations and rants we end up having.

Haha - no kidding. The same damn buzz-cut and grizzled features. Their personalities and situations the game stories put them in are often quite similar too.

Also, the IGN article that image is from puts heroes on top of one another to show how freaking slapdash they are: http://www.ign.com/articles/2011/06/22/the-devolution-of-character-designs

I feel kind of good in that I haven't really played much of any of the games they listed. And my Mass Effect 1-3 Shepard was given sensitive looking features and a spiky bright red haircut because I wanted someone with a positive outlook on his face and a hairdo that looked like something out of a French graphic novel. Wherever the game gave me the option to avoid combat and seek a peaceful route, I took it. (Which wasn't very often. One of the failings of the mass effect franchise to me is that the dialogue and diplomacy wasn't handled with as much depth as it could have been. I would have preferred getting through most of the game without firing a shot, and 'dueling' with my wits and tact. And when I AM forced into a fight, it should mean something big.)

Speaking of mass effect - this is a pretty good representation of how seriously I took the game's romance subplots:

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Speaking of mass effect - this is a pretty good representation of how seriously I took the game's romance subplots:

Bwahahahahaha!

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As a side note, for the next mass effect game, I'd like the gameplay to feel more like future tech stuff, and the battles to be more like solving puzzles involving chesslike opponents rather than cover-based FPS-ish action with timed powers. I'd like to be making use of scientific stuff to render straight-up weapon combat somewhat obsolete, and some characters to even fight weaponless, using tech and/or psi powers rather than firearms and soldiering. I'd like to feel a little bit like some kind of Doctor Who type at times where I'm taking the piss out of enemies who didn't think ahead of me, or who were relying on their boring and outmoded "weapons" and "aggression." I feel there was an opportunity to push the science ficiton aspect in the combat of mass effect games that was missed - and they instead gave you future laserific versions of shotguns and snipers and pistols and hurrdurr...basically they're just conventional firearms but they do neato transformers things. Yawn. Give me a mobile chemlab that I can use to mess with the environment physics or something instead please - such as discovering a way to reverse the polarity of the enemy's weapons and have them explode and melt on them, etc.

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Speaking of mass effect - this is a pretty good representation of how seriously I took the game's romance subplots:

Jeez, this is like a David Lynch movie or something.

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Anemone: youre an exception then. and i didnt know that youre a game dev or an aspiring one. im not saying that this is universal, but this is the prevailing case. and if you think that im arguing against female protagonists, then youre deeply mistaken. i myself love beyond good & evil. if i can choose in an rpg, i usually pick a female char (femshep for example).

emirizilla: lol as that would be a good solution :) (i mean the first half). ok female writers are there, but that is not something with a huge history. it takes time to shift the prevailing tropes. and still there is a vast majority of guys in the industry. and dont forget that writing for games is something as different as writing a story for a book and a story for a movie.

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Other female-protagonist games I can think of - Hydrophobia, Silent Hill 3, Heavenly Sword, Parasite Eve, Um Jammer Lammy and the wonderful, underrated No One Lives Forever (and sequel). I could also mention X-Blades but I don't really want to :P

Also shout out to Summoner 2 for very much revolving around a female character, though it's technically party based so doesn't fit the criteria. Also wanting to mention Eternal Darkness, but excluding it for the body-hopping.

Some writers have done that, and I find the results interesting. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Delenn from Babylon 5.

The classic example is Alien - all the characters (including Ripley) were written as men with a note that the crew was unisex, the best actors for the job of either gender should be cast and the roles interpreted accordingly.

But yes, I only just noticed myself that all the winning concepts with defined characters have female protagonists and it makes me very happy.

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Speaking of mass effect - this is a pretty good representation of how seriously I took the game's romance subplots:

Hehehe, I had the same sort of thing happen in Old Republic last night oddly enough. Started boogying backwards and forwards all over a Sith Lord's desk, really weird thing was she appeared to be following me with her eyes the whole time.

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Anemone: youre an exception then. and i didnt know that youre a game dev or an aspiring one. im not saying that this is universal, but this is the prevailing case. and if you think that im arguing against female protagonists, then youre deeply mistaken. i myself love beyond good & evil. if i can choose in an rpg, i usually pick a female char (femshep for example).

emirizilla: lol as that would be a good solution :) (i mean the first half). ok female writers are there, but that is not something with a huge history. it takes time to shift the prevailing tropes. and still there is a vast majority of guys in the industry. and dont forget that writing for games is something as different as writing a story for a book and a story for a movie.

Oh no worries. I was just making conversation. Not so much arguing. =]

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Tomb Raider

Portal

Beyond Good & Evil

Mirror's Edge

Metroid

Dreamfall

Syberia

They Bleed Pixels

Final Fantasy X-2

Okami (if girl dogs count)

Bayonetta

Bloodrayne

Alice (game of the same name)

Recettear

Chantelise

Fortune Summoners

Aquaria

Resident Evil 3 and Codename: Veronica

Dino Crisis

Parasite Eve 1, 2 and 3rd birthday

Fear Effect 1 & 2

Silent Hill 3

UmJammer Lammy

Valkyrie Profile

Death By Degrees

Assassin's Creed III: Liberation

Clock Tower

Perfect Dark

D2

Some of the Atelier games

Eternal Darkness

Fatal Frame

Ghost In The Shell

Golden Axe: Beast Rider

Gravity Rush

Haunting Ground

Heavenly Sword

Hydrophobia

Hyperdimension Neptunia

Jeanne d'Arc

No One Lives Forever 1&2

Oni

Primal

Rogue Ops

WET

Koudelka?

The Longest Journey

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God the Penny Arcade Report is so depressing. I stopped reading it when they linked me to Critical Path, and then squeezed it into a really cynical, sensationalist headline about white people strangling creativity, as if Will Wright and Ken Levine are some kind of secret millitant racists and you should click here to find out more.

Am I missing something? I didn't read anything cynical in the article, and there was nothing about "white people strangling creativity" in the article or hinted at in the headline. It merely pointed out that most of the positions of creative power in the video game industry are held by white men, which, unfortunately, mirrors how things are in almost every job field. White guys have a lot of power and privilege that non-whites or non-guys don't. Now, this isn't because Will Wright made it this way, and it isn't because video games are evil or because white men are evil. But it's all a slice of a much larger inequality problem that exists almost everywhere in the world. You don't think it's a good idea to address it?

Marketing departments of big game publishers aren't the illuminati who are secretly phasing out women, PA Report. Marketing is about statistics and numbers, and there's more statistics and numbers telling you to make a game about men than there are to make one about women.

Don't you think this is a problem, though? That, statistically, games with exclusively male protagonists do 25% better in sales than games with an optional female protagonist, and 75% better than games with an exclusively female protagonist?

... give me some respect and just tell it straight! Don't-- put a picture of Mirror's Edge girl ontop of a pile of money next to Infamous man on stacks o dollars, I'm not a baby who needs this in the shape of a heroes and villains story, cos that's not real life. Mirror's Edge is a game about running and inFamous was a PS3 exclusive about a SUPER-POWERS, OPEN-WORLD, published by Sony Computer Entertainment...

I think the problem you're having here is you think that, merely by addressing the state of unequal gender representation in games, we're automatically villainizing people. Articles like this shouldn't be written off because they're "blaming" any specific person or persons for the problem -- they're not. They're merely addressing that there is a pervasive state of inequality and inspire us to ask questions about why this exists. And I think you'll find that it's a pattern that runs through most of society.

But even when we just focus on video games (global society is admittedly a bigger problem), we should all be inspired to ask questions after reading articles like this. Why does inFamous, and so many other AAA games, star a light-skinned guy with a shaved head and stubble? Why do games lead by male characters sell so much better? And, when something like 40% of people who play games are women, shouldn't there be more of an attempt to have an equal representation of women in games?

Try not to get so frustrated by reading articles like this. I think it's a mistake to think that their purpose is to blame people or be sensationalist. It should be an opportunity to become aware of the state of things and ask questions.

Staying in a safe-zone and only engineering games that sell can be a self-destructive direction for games, and that's an interesting topic that's 100% worth talking about. But packaging it into a black and white drama like this:

"Do publishers send female-lead games out to die without proper support? “I think it might be"

"it seems the very idea of a female-led game seems so toxic to publishers and marketing that there is barely enough examples from which to draw conclusions"

"Those that do are almost always sent out to die due to limited marketing budgets. "

"Games that allow you to choose your gender are reviewed better than games that offer male-only heroes, but the games with male only heroes sold better."

^Yeah that could be Mass Effect versus Super Meat Boy for all I know. There's a BILLION things that determine how much budget a game gets, and to just boil it down to gender of the main character and sales numbers is cartoonish. The idea that "publishers" are the only reason things are like this is even more silly! It's like writing an article showing that the Ford company caused global warming.

The story here is about the culture of people who play games and the backgrounds of designers, psychology in marketing and the danger of relying on risk assessment in marketing-- It's not that Sleeping Dogs sold more than WET or Hydrophobia had a lower budget than God of War.

The "wall of white dudes" article (which is goofy as hell to boil down Sid Mier and Hideo Kojima as that) is the same thing. It's taking the idea that most designers in the industry are of the same culture and background, which is a true and serious topic, then cramming it into a one-note story and pinning it on the evil all-seeing lizard-men. In this case "publishers"... which is about as vague as saying "companies" every time.

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Valkyrie Profile

Fatal Frame

Gravity Rush

Primal

Annoyed at myself for forgetting those

Koudelka?

Hah! That's a blast from the past, I bought it second hand on a whim. It was a mixed-gender static party IIRC, like the Shadow Hearts games that came after.

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Speaking of mass effect - this is a pretty good representation of how seriously I took the game's romance subplots:

Jeez, this is like a David Lynch movie or something.

Just a minor pet peeve from my film snob side - I'm starting to get a little annoyed with people over-using 'this is like a David Lynch film.' I feel like it's the new 'Kafkaesque' cliche these days.

Not every single thing that is weird or disturbing is 'like a David Lynch film.' There's also a lot more weird and disturbing artfilm out there that make Lynch only the tip of the iceberg. Or weirdberg.

That said, I can't stay too annoyed though because it usually means at the very least that person made the effort to watch and probably enjoy David Lynch films.

Anyway, the only thing I can think of that the video I linked is like is maybe "if Tim and Eric edited mass effect."

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That said, I can't stay too annoyed though because it usually means at the very least that person made the effort to watch and probably enjoy David Lynch films.

People enjoy David Lynch films? Why?

I'm kidding. I do enjoy watching them. I'm just not sure that I should.

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