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Shadi Lahham

The cave on GOG/HB

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I want the cave. Can't wait to play it!

But I want it on GOG. I want it DRM free.

I hate that I have to buy games on steam with DRM and am forced to use their client. Many games are steam exclusive and I don't buy them for that reason alone even when they are on deep promotions. That is the reason I will not be getting 'the cave' pre-order even though it's quite cheap on steam now.

On the other hand I would even be willing to pay Extra for no DRM, even more than the full price of the game, because for me DRM-Free is 'added value' and because I respect companies that trust my integrity!

Will SEGA ever allow doublefine to release 'the cave' on GOG or even the HumbleBundle ?

Nothing says 'we trust and love our games' like DRM-Free does!

Doublefine has had relations with GOG and the Humblebundle on psychonauts, stacking, costume quest and recently AF, but usually those are old releases, meaning 'the cave' might make it on GOG/HB in 2016! I would love to see it there NOW and am willing to put my money where my mouth is!

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Only if they sign a deal with gog. It's not really used by Sega as DRM, people demand Steam versions, for it's convinence and centralized nature, and that buying off of 3rd party retailers still gets you on Steam.

GOG is nice and I endorse efforts to bring games out on it, but there's a certain point where I feel that you cause more inconvinence for yourself trying to avoid DRM, than it would ever cause you to just use it.

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Steam doesn't force DRM on the games sold on that platform. Steamworks is optional and it's up to the devs/publishers to include it. There's actually a pretty large number of games on Steam that don't require Steam to be running. You can launch them straight from the .exe and they'll run just fine without Steam.

As for The Cave, it's going to have Steam achievements, so unless Sega let Double Fine do what they did with Psychonauts (the Steam version of Psychonauts has a "smart" .exe that detects whether Steam is running or not. If Steam is on, it'll run with Steamworks so you get achievements, cloud saves, and what-not, if Steam is not running, then Psychonauts will happy run in DRM-free mode), The Cave will probably be using Steamworks.

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I sorta feel the same. Something about having to go through a middle man to get to my games.

I'm most like going to get a console version, but if the Mac version releases DRM-free I'd pick that up as well.

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Because Xbox live is not a middleman. Also, by that logic SEGA is also a middleman, and any non self-published game falls under that category.

If you just don't like using clients, i still don't see how Steam is any more intrusive than xbox live ever was, or the mac app store for that matter. Ufortunately, there is no mac version though, so the xbox version seems to be the one for you.

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Advantages of steam client:

1. For the few games that support it, cloud save so you don't have to carry your save games with you if you switch computers. Plus, it's nice to know that your saves are back-up somewhere. (I don't play on multiple computers)

2. Useful if you play multiplayer games and need to find other players quickly, build in chat, etc (I have 2 friends on steam and I never played multiplayer)

3. You can also connect your steam account and games to your playstation? (not sure about this)

Irrelevant advantages:

1. Achievments; lots of games have built in achievements which work better than the steam version and also work when you're offline

2. Sometimes steam has deep discounts; this really varies a lot and for me is not a good thing. If i like a game I WANT to developer to get more money from me, if I pay $5 for a game that I think is worth $50 that feels like taking away from the developer. Also, GOG/HB and others have huge discounts as well.

3. Collectionism: you can buy lots of discounted packages of games on steam and boast a huge library. (I buy games to play them, not to put them on a virtual shelf and count them)

Disadvantages of steam client:

1. Client required for download and install

2. Client always resident in memory for games that have DRM (less memory for your game and other supporting apps)

3. Steam decided which folder in install you game to, no control

4. When you start a game steam starts and needs to log into your account (another few seconds of waiting)

5. Sometimes the client needs to update itself (more minutes lost)

6. The client needs to 'sync' with the network

7. You MUST be online to play games.

8. You can play in offline mode but that's limited to at most a month and doesn't always work smoothly, you still need the steam client

9. Even with games that run fine without the steam client, you still need to install the steam client to be able to download and install the games (Why do you need a client to install and run stuff ? I expect to do that from the browser like any other software)

10. No default privacy, everybody can see which games you play as well as other info about you.

11. Prices that varry from region to region and also change based on which currency you pay with

12. Slow download speed for games (as compared to GOG)

13. Steam can block access to your account/games at any moment for any reason they decide is valid! (true and happens to people more than you think)

Advantages of GOG (and HB)

1. No DRM! You can install the game on any device you want as many times as you want. Your integrity is the only guarantee that you don't abuse your rights.

2. The game is yours forever. You can download your entire colletion, burn to a DVD and install it whenever you want. Even if GOG shuts down, changes policies you don't loose your game

3. The game is also available for download forever digitally on GOG from anywhere in the world

4. No need to be online for any reason

5. No extra client in the background

6. GOG doesn't collect any information about you, about your computers and nobody has information about what games you play (GOG knows which games you buy of course)

7. Super fast download speeds (as compared to GOG) - Took me 3 hours to download 'The witcher 2' from GOG, took me a day to download 'DeusEx3' from steam on the same computer/connection

8. GOG has an OPTIONAL download client, if you choose to use it

9. A good feeling inside that you have done the right thing and supported people that have a progressive view on digital media and trust their users to act responsibly

10. Same price in any currency and in any country in the world!

Anyway, just to make my point clear, I'm not saying 'the cave' should be on GOG instead of steam, I'm saying it should be on steam as well as GOG, the humble indie store, and other platforms.

Now steam and SEGA might say that making it available on other platforms takes away the exclusivity of steam and degrades sales on steam, but that's the whole point! Games should be as universal as possible, on all platforms and operating systems.

Steam is not an alternative to retail, it maintains the same 'control freak' 'exclusivity' and 'high price point' as the old model. There are new models that are taking a big risk taking a DRM-free approach and I think that both gamers and game developers should support them as much as possible, because both have a lot to gain.

'The cave' DRM-Free now please !

I'm willing to pay a lot more than the 13 euros steam is asking for a pre-order :)

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Viva La Revolucion!

With that out of the way, I'm not saying I don't want a gog version. I as a consumer want any given product to be available as widely as possible. For various reasons, it's not gonna happen though, not anytime soon.

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Latest version of steam allows you to select different folder though its not real game folder yet its steam library folder.

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I love steam and enjoy using it as a unified game library, but I also like having a DRM free version I can back up and run in future with or without internet, so I at times buy a game on both steam and gog (or directly from the developer if possible) at separate times. I did this with Machinarium for instance, and I'm more than happy to do it for games whose developers I respect and wish to support. Games which are not so important to me I tend to just pick up when they are at their cheapest in a steam sale or something, and don't make an effort to have a more preservable copy. I would enthusiastically buy The Cave again on gog. Nowadays I can't justify to myself, or find time for, playing games for as many hours as I used to, so I rarely buy games anymore which don't embody the kind of creativity and attitude I want to see more of in gaming.. so when I find games which do, and which inspire me in some way, I'm happy to spend a bit more supporting the devs, be it through copies on different platforms, USB special editions, etc etc.

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I love steam and enjoy using it as a unified game library...

What does a 'unified game library' mean exactly ? I'm trying to understand what advantage people attach to steam ? detailed answer welcome.

does that mean anything more than:

- see a list of games I own / have installed on my computer

- re-download games on new machines

- update games when patches are available.

- launch games

How is that different from going to your GOG shelf where you see:

- list of games owned

- can re-download all games + digital contents

- get notifications when patches and new content is available.

PS. sorry I think this topic is digressing from 'The Cave', which still seems like a great adventure game that should be out on other platforms besides steamworks ;)

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Well, by 'unified game library' I simply mean that... if I feel like playing a game, I open steam and all of my options are instantly in front of me. GoG does not have that advantage as the catalog is more limited, and it's interface being a website rather than a client exe, it's not the kind of thing you would add your non-gog, already installed games to. Auto patching is also much nicer than notifications about patches, in my experience. I'm yet to have an auto patch mess up my game or corrupt saves or something, although it is of course on the cards.

For me it's not so much that steam does anything that no other service or approach can do, but that it does most things I could want from it, including having a community\chat client which just about anyone I've ever played a multiplayer game with happens to use, all at once in a cohesive way. I enjoy using it, I enjoy Valve's games and respect their company ethos and structure, Steam prices beat my local game store prices by a long stretch in the majority of cases, I dig features such a cloud saves where they are used, etc. I dig that it's become a strong platform for indie games. I'm not a "steam is the only option" fanboy, but I like it and I always hope everything I'm interested in is released on it.

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I don't have a steam account and I don't want one. So i hope in the future this game won't have to have a steam account. Shame. I liked the look of the game.

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I don't have a steam account and I don't want one. So i hope in the future this game won't have to have a steam account. Shame. I liked the look of the game.

Sadly, the number of people that love steam is much larger than the number of people that hate steam.

So I think it will be a long time before 'The Cave' will be available elsewhere.

Shame

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But why is it a problem to release the game on GOG or HS in addition to Steam. Then everybody can buy the game just where he wants it to buy. I also would prefer GOG/HS.

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But why is it a problem to release the game on GOG or HS in addition to Steam. Then everybody can buy the game just where he wants it to buy. I also would prefer GOG/HS.

Because GOG/HB are DRM free, which potentially increases the change for piracy (in theory) ... and that is not good for operators like Steam which rely on DRM to makre sure that more people buy the game rather the pirate it. Also, releasing it Steam only means steam exclusivity, which in turn means more money for Steam since they are the only ones to control the price.

Other shops can sell it (e.g. GM) but they all have to use Steamworks, meaning you have to pass via Steam in any case, meaning Steam controls user demand and pricing.

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Steam/Valve does not control pricing on Steam, the publisher of the game does. If a game is priced poorly on Steam, the publisher is to blame.

Also, it was Sega's decision to make the PC version Steam exclusive (for the time being, at least). Double Fine can't really do anything about it since Sega's the publisher, thus Sega calls the shots.

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Linux gamer opinion here (grains of salt ready?)... I have no specific love for Steam. In fact, my dozens and dozens of games are mostly managed in Desura, with another hefty stack in the Humble Store (which are now all collected in a list on my Humble account profile), and a couple of game packs on GOG which were gifted to me as Kickstarter rewards.

However, I'm a huge supporter of Schafer and Gilbert. And now, after participating in Amnesia Fortnight, I feel like I really know some of the team, and feel closer to them as a fan.

Then, Grumpy Gamer Ron basically made my month when he announced the Linux port on Twitter... how can I not support that? Has Sega ever published a Linux game before? If it does well enough, and piracy isn't observed to be a huge problem, then it's far more likely that The Cave will be included in a nice game bundle down the road (once revenue becomes long-tailish), and also more likely that both Sega and Double Fine will publish more Linux games.

It may well be the only game I buy on Steam, who knows? I did also use it to install the "free-to-play" Team Fortress 2 game, but it's not really my kind of game. I suppose that in the coming weeks, I'll come to find out what sort of experience it, and Steam, can provide.

Wish me luck, folks! :)

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Good luck :)

That's another plus for steam from my perspective... Their support for linux will hopefully encourage more games and gamers to the platform. I'm keen as ever to get off this dicey windows thingo.. Windows 8 looks pretty awful for how I use a PC too, and it seems to be transforming toward being a closed platform. It's only some audio software keeping me on this OS. When I get some more time (after finishing the projects I'm involved in at the moment) I'll dual boot and explore alternatives.

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Ideally you release simultaneously on Steam, GOG and on your own site via the Humble Store.

This way everyone is free to choose the way he feels most comfortable with. People who are used to the Steam client, buy there. People who value a DRM free option, buy on GOG. By buying through the third option from the devs site directly you normally get the most benefit like DRM free, like crossy support for Win, OS X and Linux, like Steam key on top, like one price for everyone, like knowing that more money goes to the developer.

If i would be free to choose then i would buy in this order: Humble Store, GOG, Steam.

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I wasn't aware the Humble Bundle guys offered ways for products to be sold outside of the bundles. That's really cool if that's the case. Humble Bundle purchases are pretty ultimate.. DRM free plus Steam codes for one purchase price. Lovely. I'd probably still be all over the bundles if they were fixed-priced.

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I wasn't aware the Humble Bundle guys offered ways for products to be sold outside of the bundles. That's really cool if that's the case. Humble Bundle purchases are pretty ultimate.. DRM free plus Steam codes for one purchase price. Lovely. I'd probably still be all over the bundles if they were fixed-priced.

Yes the Humble Store has existed for more than a year. ( I got Trine2 from it last year I think, and then several other games).

It works like the humble bundle, DRM-free + SteamKey, win/mac/linux, google-wallet/amazon/paypal, game executable hosted for you forever and patched.

The only difference is that the price is set by the developer and the money goes only to them (no charity)

They plan to expand to a full fledged store at some point in the future.

http://www.indiegamemag.com/jeff-rosen-the-humble-store-is-something-we-are-working-on/

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I'd buy The Cave if DRM free, but I won't buy it on Steam.

I wonder if we'll get an official DF comment about this. double SEGA would let them, but here's hoping.

Would be nice to know if there are plans for a DRM version even if in the far future ...

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Steam/Valve does not control pricing on Steam, the publisher of the game does. If a game is priced poorly on Steam, the publisher is to blame.

Actually, not entirely. It's based on a deal between a publisher and a store. Other store can offer same conditions for all but Steam obviously cannot be blamed for its "Some are more equal than others" policy #sarcasm. That service is good as a choice, not as the only way.

I second the request. I'd love to buy the game on GOG too. Or in HB.

By the way, good luck with sales! :)

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