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ThunderPeel

Cave Paintings Look Ugly... Why?

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I love the Cave Paintings, but they're distorted in the game... No idea why!

Here's the original artwork next to a screenshot from the version I see in-game...

original-cave_zps5e7f56b0.jpg

original-cave-3_zpsc7158897.jpg

original-cave-2_zpsbf050d1b.jpg

Would be great if you could fix this!

(I'm playing the PC Steam version.)

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Yeah think they have a bug in upsampling when you have a higher rez then the picture is created in it looks ugly because at lower resolutions it looks fine.

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I think it looks like that because the art was sampled for console resolution (720p). It'd be cool if the PC versions could get high-definition cave painting assets patched into the game, though.

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Mine looked similar, even though I would have expected the difference from 720p to 1680x1050 I use on my desktop screen not to cause any concern. It's a pity, really.

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Thank You!

So it isn't it just me.

They really really need to fix this. It's making me wish I had not bought the game on Steam.

I actually thought the PC version would be the best looking and best to control version. (although there seems to be bugs galore on the PSN version being reported)...

This Cave Paintings resolution is my ONLY issue with the PC version.

If anyone can figure out how to extract the paintings from the game, then I'd at least be happy with that. I can't even figure out which file they'd be in in the steamapp files.

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I tried changing my resolution to 1280 X 720 and this did not help with the resolution on the Cave Paintings.

I'd say I hope DoubleFine tries to get them published as an artbook but since that Brutal Legend book isn't even coming out till March, the chances of this are slim to none.

I would say Double Fine should find an intern with expertise in PDF creation who would learn being at DF just through osmosis and then they could just start selling DRM high resolution PDF files in the store at like $5 or something since an intern is making them and the art is already paid for... but... yeah... I'm not saying we're entitled to this or anything.

It's just something I wish they could do.

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Agreed completely, Reid_Harris_Cooper. There's been a lot of fantastic artists involved with all of the games that Double Fine has made and it's a shame that all of that art can't be seen by others. Hopefully more art books, or something like PDF releases, are something they have planned one day.

Or maybe there's legal reasons as to why the art can't be put out? I don't know.

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To be honest, I thought it was just intentional. It reminds me of the type of artwork you'd find in old RPGs. I thought it was done for a nostalgia factor.

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Yup, these are definitely resampling artifacts. It's always a tradeoff between speed and quality. There are plenty of well-known techniques that will avoid these problems but they are slow (on the order of a second or two). You can notice this whenever you transform a clip in photoshop. While you are scaling or rotating it they use a very fast but crude approach (probably bi-linear interpolation) but once you commit the transformation it pauses for a split second while it computes a much more accurate version. When it's finished it looks MUCH better!

This sure seams a case where they aught to be using something more accurate (a split second to resample the image would not be noticed) but maybe the engine just wasn't designed for it. Most of the time in a game image assets need to scale quickly!

Seth B.

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^seems pretty important to fix to me, seeing as practically the entire story is told through them

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^seems pretty important to fix to me, seeing as practically the entire story is told through them

You still see them only look worse. While game breaking bugs are really needed to be fixed.

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It would be nice if future DF productions would be released more when they are also ready instead of coming with serious bugs and a bag full of glitches. If a certain lack of QA is happening more on regular basis you're developing kind of a bad feeling for new releases. There are devs where you know, if you buy one of their games all will be fine and you can just enjoy the game and then there are the others were you evolve a habit over time to better wait a few further weeks/months in order to be able to enjoy a game also the way it was meant to be played.

I would prefer if DF would try to be in the first category.

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It would be nice if future DF productions would be released more when they are also ready instead of coming with serious bugs and a bag full of glitches. If a certain lack of QA is happening more on regular basis you're developing kind of a bad feeling for new releases. There are devs where you know, if you buy one of their games all will be fine and you can just enjoy the game and then there are the others were you evolve a habit over time to better wait a few further weeks/months in order to be able to enjoy a game also the way it was meant to be played.

I would prefer if DF would try to be in the first category.

Its really hard to find all the bugs in games they are big and allot is going on. Allot of the bugs where also machine specific. On my play through I had almost 0 problems except the cave painting look maybe. Unlimited testing time still doesn't mean no bugs think overall this game compared to allot of other games doesn't have that many bugs.

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This might be true for the Windows release but not for the Mac version. Yep, testing, hunting down and squishing bugs takes time but it's also something which you can expect, at least to a certain degree (minor quirks might always show up), from a good developer. The Mac version felt rushed, maybe to get it parallel out with the Win version. You need to find a proper position between let's say a Super Mario game and Ultima IX. And again, there are devs, where a V1.0 feels a lot more mature than a V1.47 from other devs. I also remember that Psychonauts had some crashes&issues; on the Mac. Personally i would prefer if DF would be aware of this instead of releasing one game after another in a state where you first need to apply a couple of patches until it's a no brainer to play a game.

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This might be true for the Windows release but not for the Mac version. Yep, testing, hunting down and squishing bugs takes time but it's also something which you can expect, at least to a certain degree (minor quirks might always show up), from a good developer. The Mac version felt rushed, maybe to get it parallel out with the Win version. You need to find a proper position between let's say a Super Mario game and Ultima IX. And again, there are devs, where a V1.0 feels a lot more mature than a V1.47 from other devs. I also remember that Psychonauts had some crashes&issues; on the Mac. Personally i would prefer if DF would be aware of this instead of releasing one game after another in a state where you first need to apply a couple of patches until it's a no brainer to play a game.

Psychonauts and the cave are build on totally different engines. And 1 mayor bug on Mac was because of crappy drivers which they had to make an exception for to make it work. And when they get this working fine on mac it also means there will be a bigger chance for ports for their other games.

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Uhm, sorry, but as a consumer i don't care about which engine is used, the only thing i care about is if something works or not. Making workarounds for something like driver bugs is more common than you might know.

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Uhm, sorry, but as a consumer i don't care about which engine is used, the only thing i care about is if something works or not. Making workarounds for something like driver bugs is more common than you might know.

Yep but you can't test for every system available unless you have a really big company.

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That's what system requirements are for. But if i find my system in the "supported" list then i also expect it to be tested and working on that system. If it has not been tested for that system, then don't include it until it has been tested and fixed properly. There is no reason to misuse early adopters unasked as crashtest dummies, unless the release was more meant as some open beta. Beside of this we aren't talking about some esoteric issues here which might show up after playing the game for 17 hours and trying out something weird. These are things which are noticeable right from the start.

I fail to see the logic behind your argumentation and why the production of a game (its technical side) should be different from any other product. If you buy a car and it doesn't drive, are you afterwards satisfied if the salesman tells you something like "Oh, you need to know this is a new car. It's just normal that certain components might not work at this early stage and we really haven't had the time to test everything like if the wheel is steering properly or if the screwdrivers are working if it rains." Do you then return satisfied to your new car, lock it (if the keys are working), take the bus and then after a couple of weeks return to where you once locked your car and mechanics meanwhile where trying their best? I don't think so.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not upset about this and know about the complexity and pressure which can be behind but i think that just because it's software and just because it's a game, this shouldn't give you some excuses not trying to treat a release as responsible as you can and this involves trying to come up with a, by reasonable measurements, mature and tested product. And by such standards the Mac release wasn't ready. Psychonauts was a compareable experience on the Mac. So, if there will be another game from DF for the Mac, what can a customer expect? Another more buggy release or will DF have learned from this? You see, it's easy to developed a certain negative feeling about it and that's not good. DF for sure doesn't want to get famous for making more unique and interesting games but which don't work either.

If The Cave gets fixed at some point properly and if the next Mac releases will be (more) mature, great. There are a number of games which could be ported and which i would be interested in buying but only if they also work.

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That's what system requirements are for. But if i find my system in the "supported" list then i also expect it to be tested and working on that system. If it has not been tested for that system, then don't include it until it has been tested and fixed properly. There is no reason to misuse early adopters unasked as crashtest dummies, unless the release was more meant as some open beta. Beside of this we aren't talking about some esoteric issues here which might show up after playing the game for 17 hours and trying out something weird. These are things which are noticeable right from the start.

I fail to see the logic behind your argumentation and why the production of a game (its technical side) should be different from any other product. If you buy a car and it doesn't drive, are you afterwards satisfied if the salesman tells you something like "Oh, you need to know this is a new car. It's just normal that certain components might not work at this early stage and we really haven't had the time to test everything like if the wheel is steering properly or if the screwdrivers are working if it rains." Do you then return satisfied to your new car, lock it (if the keys are working), take the bus and then after a couple of weeks return to where you once locked your car and mechanics meanwhile where trying their best? I don't think so.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not upset about this and know about the complexity and pressure which can be behind but i think that just because it's software and just because it's a game, this shouldn't give you some excuses not trying to treat a release as responsible as you can and this involves trying to come up with a, by reasonable measurements, mature and tested product. And by such standards the Mac release wasn't ready. Psychonauts was a compareable experience on the Mac. So, if there will be another game from DF for the Mac, what can a customer expect? Another more buggy release or will DF have learned from this? You see, it's easy to developed a certain negative feeling about it and that's not good. DF for sure doesn't want to get famous for making more unique and interesting games but which don't work either.

If The Cave gets fixed at some point properly and if the next Mac releases will be (more) mature, great. There are a number of games which could be ported and which i would be interested in buying but only if they also work.

Sorry but they can't buy every type of mac that is available just to test it maybe they should just pick 1 mac and say it works on that rest we don't know. And yes other games on the same engine as the cave will be easier to port because of the bug fixes done to the cave version. At least the games still run better then what Bethesda or tell tale games delivers on average.

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I didn't say that it needs to run on every type of Mac, only on those they also include into their system requirements. The OS X market also is a lot less complex than the Windows market is when it comes to fragmentation. It's up to you if you want to compare yourself more with the bad or good examples in the industry.

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I didn't say that it needs to run on every type of Mac, only on those they also include into their system requirements. The OS X market also is a lot less complex than the Windows market is when it comes to fragmentation. It's up to you if you want to compare yourself more with the bad or good examples in the industry.

The thing is most of the good examples use engines like unreal 3 etc. Which means they have allot of people testing and updating the codebase while doublefine needs to do it with limited budget and then you really cant test it all. Even though it was in minimum spec they could have tested it on a version that had just a little different driver version or something small other thing different and it could have worked fine. In real world there are so many combinations/configurations out it is impossible to test it all.

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No matter if you're standing on the shoulders of some battle proofed middleware or wrote your own engine, it doesn't change a fact about what i wrote before. Products which aren't tested properly shouldn't be released. It's not the job of the customer to care about why this might not be the case, it's the devs job. There are industries where this is more common sense than in others. And if you're looking at other games or the history of video games it's also doable (asymptote) once you have the proper mindset.

You can't sell something which doesn't work, i'm sorry but no matter how much of a DF fan you are, you won't convince me in this aspect.

I didn't mean to turn this into an ongoing discussion but whilst writing this i was thinking about that buying a game, a software product, and not knowing if it works properly destroys a part of its magic. Beside of technical issues this also alters the way you think inside a game. When you know a game is running rock solid then you can much better concentrate on solving also hard riddles because you know there is a solution, you just haven't found it yet. If you know a game is buggy you're insecure, less creative and insistent because you never know if it's you or just some stupid bug. At some point you consult a walkthrough, get dissapointed and once the next harder puzzle comes up all the fun is gone because you never know if it's you or just another bug. This can ruin a game.

Therefore, again, imo it's insanely important to put a lot of effort into testing and releasing a game as bug free as possible without the internet/patching mentality.

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Therefore, again, imo it's insanely important to put a lot of effort into testing and releasing a game as bug free as possible without the internet/patching mentality.

There isn't a software engineer, producer, or publisher out there that would disagree, especially since patching releases on modern consoles can be incredibly expensive.

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I actually would not be surprised if this was done on purpose. To make them look you know actually painted, instead of digital image :)

either way they are pretty damn cool.

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No matter if you're standing on the shoulders of some battle proofed middleware or wrote your own engine, it doesn't change a fact about what i wrote before. Products which aren't tested properly shouldn't be released. It's not the job of the customer to care about why this might not be the case, it's the devs job. There are industries where this is more common sense than in others. And if you're looking at other games or the history of video games it's also doable (asymptote) once you have the proper mindset.

You can't sell something which doesn't work, i'm sorry but no matter how much of a DF fan you are, you won't convince me in this aspect.

I didn't mean to turn this into an ongoing discussion but whilst writing this i was thinking about that buying a game, a software product, and not knowing if it works properly destroys a part of its magic. Beside of technical issues this also alters the way you think inside a game. When you know a game is running rock solid then you can much better concentrate on solving also hard riddles because you know there is a solution, you just haven't found it yet. If you know a game is buggy you're insecure, less creative and insistent because you never know if it's you or just some stupid bug. At some point you consult a walkthrough, get dissapointed and once the next harder puzzle comes up all the fun is gone because you never know if it's you or just another bug. This can ruin a game.

Therefore, again, imo it's insanely important to put a lot of effort into testing and releasing a game as bug free as possible without the internet/patching mentality.

And again i'm sure they tested the game a fair bit but there is always a limit to how much money you wanna spend on testing and when you think its ready to release. As soon as on their side with testing they don't find any game breaking bugs anymore they release a game. But a product is so big that minor differences in consoles and other stuff can give trouble its impossible to test everything.

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