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TwoSe7enFive

This is getting ridiculous

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I know I'm going to get bashed for being impatient but I don't care.

Come on DF, really ... how hard is it just to say

"Hi, don't worry ... we haven't forgotten about you guys"

Not demanding or even asking for the video update, just a brief text update. I don't think that's asking too much.

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It's pandelirium! Makes you almost appreciate the publisher model, at least the $$$ is tied to them responsibly updating the investors even if most games made that way lack any compelling gameplay elements or creativity. New business model: Get kickstarter money, don't update backers, ?????, PROFIT!

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It's pandelirium! Makes you almost appreciate the publisher model, at least the $$$ is tied to them responsibly updating the investors even if most games made that way lack any compelling gameplay elements or creativity. New business model: Get kickstarter money, don't update backers, ?????, PROFIT!

You obviously miss my point :( you can go away now.

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It's pandelirium! Makes you almost appreciate the publisher model, at least the $$$ is tied to them responsibly updating the investors even if most games made that way lack any compelling gameplay elements or creativity. New business model: Get kickstarter money, don't update backers, ?????, PROFIT!

As Aliens: Colonial Marines recently taught us, even under Publisher scrutiny Developers can go astray.

Something people might not have realized is that this project, like any other project, was never guaranteed to succeed; Tim even said so in the pitch video, “it could all go horribly wrong”.

Though I don’t think this project is a failure, or is going to be at any time, it was always a possibility, I think we lulled ourselves in a dream of adventure and forgot the real consequences of game development, or DF’s own precedent for not meeting budget/time.

Chiiillax people, and wait for the next Episode, I’m sure it will be reassuring to us all.

EDIT: I can’t believe I used the word “Chillax”.

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I'm sure they have good reasons, but as you say TwoSe7enFive, any kind of update would suffice, even if Episode 8 isn't ready yet. As cool as the documentary is, it has been ages since we even had any kind of art or programming update. Even just a quick 'Hey guys, this week we implemented 3 rooms and a puzzle' would be great. Just something that shows us they are still actually working on the thing.

I tweeted Tim and a few others yesterday. Just a friendly tweet to try to eke some kind of clue out of them. I got a reply, which was a great fanboy moment to get a reply from one of my adventure game heroes, but unfortunately it wasn't very helpful.

I got a slightly more helpful reply from Anna who kindly informed me that we will be able to click on things in the game. Thanks for that. That may be another way of saying that she has been implementing some hotspot interactions or something, which would be cool... but the way she worded it gives us no information... it's just stating an obvious fact about point and click games. (

)

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I'm dying for updates, any updates, too but I also know that there might be situations where they simply can't write anything useful to us. I suppose a simple "hello world" would suffice at some point. After all, we were supposed to be following the process as backers of the project and it's been a while now where all of us have been kept in the dark. It's unnecessary and only serves to create tension.

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It's pandelirium! Makes you almost appreciate the publisher model, at least the $$$ is tied to them responsibly updating the investors even if most games made that way lack any compelling gameplay elements or creativity. New business model: Get kickstarter money, don't update backers, ?????, PROFIT!

As Aliens: Colonial Marines recently taught us, even under Publisher scrutiny Developers can go astray.

Something people might not have realized is that this project, like any other project, was never guaranteed to succeed; Tim even said so in the pitch video, “it could all go horribly wrong”.

Though I don’t think this project is a failure, or is going to be at any time, it was always a possibility, I think we lulled ourselves in a dream of adventure and forgot the real consequences of game development, or DF’s own precedent for not meeting budget/time.

Chiiillax people, and wait for the next Episode, I’m sure it will be reassuring to us all.

EDIT: I can’t believe I used the word “Chillax”.

Yeah my post was dripping with sarcasm, but I agree with the OP on updating us more. Alternatively, I'd argue A:CM teaches us not to pre-order/back kickstarter projects. ;)

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I'm sure they have good reasons, but as you say TwoSe7enFive, any kind of update would suffice, even if Episode 8 isn't ready yet. As cool as the documentary is, it has been ages since we even had any kind of art or programming update. Even just a quick 'Hey guys, this week we implemented 3 rooms and a puzzle' would be great. Just something that shows us they are still actually working on the thing.

I tweeted Tim and a few others yesterday. Just a friendly tweet to try to eke some kind of clue out of them. I got a reply, which was a great fanboy moment to get a reply from one of my adventure game heroes, but unfortunately it wasn't very helpful.

I got a slightly more helpful reply from Anna who kindly informed me that we will be able to click on things in the game. Thanks for that. That may be another way of saying that she has been implementing some hotspot interactions or something, which would be cool... but the way she worded it gives us no information... it's just stating an obvious fact about point and click games. (

)
Aren't the updates supposed to be for backers only. If you ask them over Twitter they can't really respond to you, unless you DM them.

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I don't really like to speculate too much in the absence of information, but my guess is that one of the reasons for the lack of updates is the desire for some good news to solidify that can be included. Backers are understandably anxious to know what's going on after the last update, and the people at Doublefine may not want them to conclude that the sky is falling if the situation hasn't changed yet. Generally speaking, people are prone to jump to conclusions if they don't know much about how a complicated process works. So, Doublefine could be making sure they have their ducks in a row, and then the documentary people have to edit footage of them getting their ducks in a row, and add music.

One piece of good news that we do know is that this game was announced to be console exclusive to the Ouya a few weeks ago. That could mean an additional source of funding. Someone in the last update said, "Now I have to go find money." I don't know particularly about game development, but I do know that finding money for a project takes a certain amount of time, and until that process is complete it can be a good idea to show some discretion, or you'll look like you're flailing by saying "Now I have to go find money" repeatedly (which, when you are looking for investment, is not how you want to look).

That general idea leaves me content, for now.

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I have to agree with aratuk on this one, sure we haven't heard but a few snippets from DF in the past month or so. But we have heard news the problem with the documentary being slow or under updated would unfortunately fall on P2P who is in charge of releasing the episodes.

Let me make it clear i'm not calling them out, they've repeatedly said that they were finishing other exclusive content like the amnesia fortnight coverage. They also stated that episode eight would be released around the end of February (which has past) but that should mean the episode is coming within a week or so. As a favorite quote for anyone that does any writing, "I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by." - Douglas Adams

instead of getting on tim's case (who is most likely busy as all hell with everything about this project), start by asking the P2P guys first. Or just do what the other 79,980 backers are doing and wait, just like we do with every other game that has ever been made.

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I have to agree with aratuk on this one, sure we haven't heard but a few snippets from DF in the past month or so. But we have heard news the problem with the documentary being slow or under updated would unfortunately fall on P2P who is in charge of releasing the episodes.

Let me make it clear i'm not calling them out, they've repeatedly said that they were finishing other exclusive content like the amnesia fortnight coverage. They also stated that episode eight would be released around the end of February (which has past) but that should mean the episode is coming within a week or so. As a favorite quote for anyone that does any writing, "I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by." - Douglas Adams

instead of getting on tim's case (who is most likely busy as all hell with everything about this project), start by asking the P2P guys first. Or just do what the other 79,980 backers are doing and wait, just like we do with every other game that has ever been made.

This has been gone over a lot on other threads (so I'm not sure why we need a new one, honestly), but essentially it's less the delays (which actually when you take in to consideration all the mitigating factors like the time off of Reds that DF has had at the end of last year, are not particularly severe). It's just that it would have been nice for someone from DF to pop in and say 'hey, we're still alive, we should have an update soon, but we're holding off for now because [blah].'

As for 2PP I think their communication has actually been not too bad. They released a sidequest on the 8th of Feb where they said they were editing the episode and it shouldn't be much longer, and otherwise said it'd be the end of Feb. When the end of Feb passed, they were a bit slow in letting us know, but they did, and we can indeed expect the episode this week.

I think someone in DF needs to be in charge, or each week a different person needs to be charge of small-scale communication. The big updates are all very well, but at a busy time like this it seems they're not getting them out, so what'd be nice instead is if someone just popped their head in once in a while who can just spend a little time engaging with the backers in the discussion thread. Nothing crazy, just a bit more of a staff presence on the forums would probably be all it'd take to keep people happy that they were still part of the process.

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I'm sure they have good reasons, but as you say TwoSe7enFive, any kind of update would suffice, even if Episode 8 isn't ready yet. As cool as the documentary is, it has been ages since we even had any kind of art or programming update. Even just a quick 'Hey guys, this week we implemented 3 rooms and a puzzle' would be great. Just something that shows us they are still actually working on the thing.

I tweeted Tim and a few others yesterday. Just a friendly tweet to try to eke some kind of clue out of them. I got a reply, which was a great fanboy moment to get a reply from one of my adventure game heroes, but unfortunately it wasn't very helpful.

I got a slightly more helpful reply from Anna who kindly informed me that we will be able to click on things in the game. Thanks for that. That may be another way of saying that she has been implementing some hotspot interactions or something, which would be cool... but the way she worded it gives us no information... it's just stating an obvious fact about point and click games. (

)
Aren't the updates supposed to be for backers only. If you ask them over Twitter they can't really respond to you, unless you DM them.

I'm happy I got a response at all. I can add Tim to the list of adventure game heroes who have replied to me on Twitter (along with Ron Gilbert and Steve Ince \o/). But my tweet was mainly a plea for some kind of clue, Twitter or otherwise, backer-only or otherwise... just... something.

[Edit] Just seen the above post. Yay! \o/

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As Aliens: Colonial Marines recently taught us, even under Publisher scrutiny Developers can go astray.

A:CM is actually a good example of a publisher giving a developer trust and independence and having that betrayed.

I never supported the Kickstarter thing because I'm anti-publisher. I want publishers to continue to be an important part of the industry. But I understand why they're risk averse, and I also see why that's creates problems.

So I think it's great that there's this alternative to publisher funding that can exist alongside it. I certainly wouldn't want to take on the risk for EVERY game production out there, and I hope publishers continue to be the normal way that games get made, but I'm also really glad there's a way for those exceptional games that don't fit that system to get made now.

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Yeah my post was dripping with sarcasm, but I agree with the OP on updating us more. Alternatively, I'd argue A:CM teaches us not to pre-order/back kickstarter projects. ;)

You certainly shouldn't pledge more than you're prepared to lose. Every Kickstarter is a gamble; a tiny "investment" that may pay off in a great game, or may go bust with a crappy one or a cancellation. It's not really like buying a game.

I'm not particularly worried about DFA though, and 2PP update on Saturday was enough communication for the next few days, at least. If it gets to be the weekend and we still haven't heard anything, I'll start to wonder.

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As we wait for episode 8's imminent arrival I'm just going to add my voice to the general sentiment I'm seeing around the forum. While I'm not posting a new point of view, I think it's important as Double Fine is hopefully paying attention to what has been said, and how many different people are saying it.

I'm not disappointed in 2PP. They have done fairly well in communicating, the project is running a lot longer than originally intended and they had other outstanding commitments like the Minecraft movie which if the project had wrapped up in October? like was originally projected in the Kickstarter they would have been clear of.

My disappointment is the lack of sausage we've been seeing (get your mind out of the gutter! yes, you). I backed this project for the sausage. I invested for the process as much as the game. More so than the game actually. I don't care about spoilers. I'd like there to be a section which talks about all elements of the project. I think it should be in a marked section which warns people that here be SPOILERS!

There should at the very least have been some word or communication that things have been delayed, or that things are progressing and there will be something soon.

To the point I've just seen about pre-orders, I agree. Absolutely do not pre-order games. But that is never what I'm doing with Kickstarter. I'm assisting a game that would not be made to be realised. That is not pre-ordering. That is backing people I trust to attempt something interesting to proceed. I rarely back games which will be made by other means if the Kickstarter fails. I haven't invested in a traditional sense as that's not what it's about either. I don't expect a monetary return. I don't even 100% expect a product.

I still have trust in Double Fine, this has been badly managed but they haven't broken trust. They're still making the game, they're still planning on communicating with us. It hasn't however met my expectations. Perhaps I'll have to adjust them, we'll see, but I hope not. I hope that when they assess what happened here, and if they're smart they will be reviewing this period and the forum reaction, and that they open up more as a result.

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As we wait for episode 8's imminent arrival I'm just going to add my voice to the general sentiment I'm seeing around the forum. While I'm not posting a new point of view, I think it's important as Double Fine is hopefully paying attention to what has been said, and how many different people are saying it.

I'm not disappointed in 2PP. They have done fairly well in communicating, the project is running a lot longer than originally intended and they had other outstanding commitments like the Minecraft movie which if the project had wrapped up in October? like was originally projected in the Kickstarter they would have been clear of.

My disappointment is the lack of sausage we've been seeing (get your mind out of the gutter! yes, you). I backed this project for the sausage. I invested for the process as much as the game. More so than the game actually. I don't care about spoilers. I'd like there to be a section which talks about all elements of the project. I think it should be in a marked section which warns people that here be SPOILERS!

There should at the very least have been some word or communication that things have been delayed, or that things are progressing and there will be something soon.

To the point I've just seen about pre-orders, I agree. Absolutely do not pre-order games. But that is never what I'm doing with Kickstarter. I'm assisting a game that would not be made to be realised. That is not pre-ordering. That is backing people I trust to attempt something interesting to proceed. I rarely back games which will be made by other means if the Kickstarter fails. I haven't invested in a traditional sense as that's not what it's about either. I don't expect a monetary return. I don't even 100% expect a product.

I still have trust in Double Fine, this has been badly managed but they haven't broken trust. They're still making the game, they're still planning on communicating with us. It hasn't however met my expectations. Perhaps I'll have to adjust them, we'll see, but I hope not. I hope that when they assess what happened here, and if they're smart they will be reviewing this period and the forum reaction, and that they open up more as a result.

I mostly agree with this assessment, but I wonder, have you browsed the From Double Fine and 2 Player Productions forum much? They haven't been posting in it for a while, but up until then I think it was a really cool way of supplementing for more narrative style of the documentary with detail.

Examples of cool things we've seen:

* Tim asking for ideas for locations, and seeing some of those locations made into concept art

* Concept art for one of the main characters being discussed in detail

* A lot of very detailed posts about how the art in the game will be constructed, complete with demo videos and pictures to illustrate

* A lot of pretty detailed posts about how the game is being programmed

* A smattering of updates from Tim about how he approaches the writing.

I think that's pretty good, and in the region of what I expected. The only things that haven't really gone into at the moment are puzzle design (and Tim does in fact talk about that a little in the Full Throttle sidequest video) and details about the actual story beyond the very basics... and I think given where they are with the project, now, we're likely to see more of that very soon.

Personally I'm quite happy for the documentary and sidequests to carry on how they are, as long as they start up a regular schedule of supplementing that with the forum content again. I still think what we're seeing here is a sort of calm before the storm - and I know the communication from DF has been poor, but I think the execution has been good, recent silence aside.

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As we wait for episode 8's imminent arrival I'm just going to add my voice to the general sentiment I'm seeing around the forum. While I'm not posting a new point of view, I think it's important as Double Fine is hopefully paying attention to what has been said, and how many different people are saying it.

I'm not disappointed in 2PP. They have done fairly well in communicating, the project is running a lot longer than originally intended and they had other outstanding commitments like the Minecraft movie which if the project had wrapped up in October? like was originally projected in the Kickstarter they would have been clear of.

My disappointment is the lack of sausage we've been seeing (get your mind out of the gutter! yes, you). I backed this project for the sausage. I invested for the process as much as the game. More so than the game actually. I don't care about spoilers. I'd like there to be a section which talks about all elements of the project. I think it should be in a marked section which warns people that here be SPOILERS!

There should at the very least have been some word or communication that things have been delayed, or that things are progressing and there will be something soon.

To the point I've just seen about pre-orders, I agree. Absolutely do not pre-order games. But that is never what I'm doing with Kickstarter. I'm assisting a game that would not be made to be realised. That is not pre-ordering. That is backing people I trust to attempt something interesting to proceed. I rarely back games which will be made by other means if the Kickstarter fails. I haven't invested in a traditional sense as that's not what it's about either. I don't expect a monetary return. I don't even 100% expect a product.

I still have trust in Double Fine, this has been badly managed but they haven't broken trust. They're still making the game, they're still planning on communicating with us. It hasn't however met my expectations. Perhaps I'll have to adjust them, we'll see, but I hope not. I hope that when they assess what happened here, and if they're smart they will be reviewing this period and the forum reaction, and that they open up more as a result.

Great post. Not enough sausage.

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Great post. Not enough sausage.

It never will be enough for some people.

Showing the paying public some of the actual game development process must be absolutely terrifying for the people involved as now everything they say and do isn't just judged by their fellow workers & bosses but by the people who are going to be playing the product they are making. It's no real wonder that they are careful with what they show while also trying to keep within their own remit to document the process.

And then there's the fact that generally a lot of what they do will be considered boring to watch - stuff like debugging and making various iterations of a design, fixing small almost invisible issues. Fill a video with stuff like that and people will stop watching and then the whole experiment fails.

But my initial point stands, however much they show it'll never be enough for some.

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Great post. Not enough sausage.

It never will be enough for some people.

Showing the paying public some of the actual game development process must be absolutely terrifying for the people involved as now everything they say and do isn't just judged by their fellow workers & bosses but by the people who are going to be playing the product they are making. It's no real wonder that they are careful with what they show while also trying to keep within their own remit to document the process.

And then there's the fact that generally a lot of what they do will be considered boring to watch - stuff like debugging and making various iterations of a design, fixing small almost invisible issues. Fill a video with stuff like that and people will stop watching and then the whole experiment fails.

But my initial point stands, however much they show it'll never be enough for some.

I think that people are just particularly feeling it now, because it has been a while since a DF update. I think they're gearing up for something, but it would be nice for them to say so at least.

There was a time where we were getting 1 or 2 updates every week, either on the forum, or from 2PP, and the DF staff who posted were very happy to spend time answering questions about their thread. I think if there's anyone who doesn't think thinks were open enough back then, they should go back and look over those posts and remind themselves of how cool they really were. So in that sense I agree with you - I think this has been a rare level of access, and while it's not quite the always-on access of Amnesia Fortnight, at its best it was about as good as could be expected for a long development process. But it's been a little while since it was that good now, so I can understand why people feel like they're missing out on a big chunk of the development.

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I understand people wanting more updates about the game itself, but keep in mind, any time they spend writing lengthy updates for us, is time they could be spending actually working on the game. There were more updates earlier on, because they were still in the idea phase. Its natural they would have had more free time to tell us what was going on.

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I understand people wanting more updates about the game itself, but keep in mind, any time they spend writing lengthy updates for us, is time they could be spending actually working on the game. There were more updates earlier on, because they were still in the idea phase. Its natural they would have had more free time to tell us what was going on.

Let's see what the Kickstarter page says:

Over a six-to-eight month period, a small team under Tim Schafer's supervision will develop Double Fine's next game, a classic point-and-click adventure. Where it goes from there will unfold in real time for all the backers to see.

2 Player Productions will be documenting the creative process and releasing monthly video updates exclusively to the Kickstarter backers. This documentary series will strive to make the viewer as much a part of the process as possible by showing a game grow from start to finish, with all the passion, humor, and heartbreak that happens along the way. Double Fine is committed to total transparency with this project, ensuring it is one of the most honest depictions of game development ever conceived.

There will be a private online community set up for the backers to discuss the project with the devs and submit their thoughts and feelings about the game's content and direction, sometimes even voting on decisions when the dev team can't decide.

As it stands right now, we don't really have any idea what is going on behind closed doors, doors that were open some months back. Had we had continuing contact with the people working on the game, it wouldn't be a problem with a delayed episode, but as we're in a information vacuum atm, I personally don't feel comfortable anymore.

Edit: But I'll probably love all Double Finers after what I've seen so far, no matter what happens. They already made a profound impression on me. I just feel sad about being left out of the information flow we had earlier.

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I'm just saying I would rather have them spending there time making the game better rather than telling us about it.

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I don't know how good a point that is; there's a whole team of people involved, they have someone appointed for community relations or whatever anyway, and while it might take time and energy to give a long and detailed update it seems people mainly want more than nothing. It wouldn't take more than an hour at the outside to give a casual, brief update.

Edit: furthermore, one of the reasons 2PP gave for not letting us download the documentary episodes is because they didn't want different edits floating around, where they reserved the right to make changes to the episodes as they are now prior to final release. So it's already established that 1) we have accepted the possibility of rough updates and 2) that people involved in the production and/or documentation of Reds are prepared to give rough, which is to say non-final, updates. So why not a weekly update of even just one or two sentences?

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Weird, the forum ate my reply. Well, anyway I just wanted to say that I think before it went quiet, the level of info and interaction was actually pretty cool, and I'm pretty optimistic that it'll get back to that, and maybe they're holding out for this new episode so that they can start talking about cool stuff that would otherwise spoil the episode. (As always, I think they should be clear with us when they're doing this, so we're not just left hanging).

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I would definitely agree that it has slowed down on the communication front, but by the same token that probably means their dumping all their time into overdrive to get the game down. I'm also pretty sure once they finish the large portion their working on they'll have loads of new content and topics to discuss about. previous posters have pointed out they are keeping informed if you make the effort to contract them, but sometimes certain things need to slow down for others to speed up, keep in mind more people are worried about the game taking a lot longer to get released then to hear about a few updates.

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Like Double Fine, we use scrum to develop our games at the SMU Guildhall.

We do so in order to 1. promote communication within the group (the social aspect being, honestly, one of the most important uses of scrum) 2. to make sure we're meeting milestones 3. to reevaluate and adjust milestones and expectations when necessary

There are times, even within the manifest structures of academic game development, when we, as developers, put our heads down and prep for milestones (either self-assigned or producer/professor assigned). These days we are, to our detriment perhaps, a little more lax with scrum, a little less devoted to updating documentation, and very focused on preparing for the next play-test or showing of our game.

If, as some have speculated, there is an intent to show any of the game during PAX or a GDC talk, then they might be motivated to reach those real world milestones rather than hedge on communication.

One of the benefits of this type of situation is that it's meant to give us insight into the process. One of the disadvantages is that not everyone was sold on that aspect, but rather on the promise of an adventure game at their doorstep.

I sympathize with those who cannot wait for new information, or a new game. However, as someone who frequently gets tunnel vision while working with my team on our own milestones, I completely understand. Our producer often has to yell at us to get a working build of our game ready to playtest, because we just want, "five more minutes to fix this last thing," which continues for hours if we allow it.

All that said, there is a community manager at DF, so it probably wouldn't be too hard to meet the requests of people like Aristotlol. Yes, I know, I'm tagging my post with a little devil's advocacy, but the reality is I follow the community manager on Twitter. He finds time to take cheap shots at people for live tweeting the PS4 press conference, and gearing up for SimCity, so he could probably drift to the DF forums and say a few words. I say that with great affection for Chris by the way.

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