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DF Chris Remo

Broken Age First Teaser Trailer

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Expectations are everything.

All those millions invested in Kickstarter mostly fuelled by nostalgia and a lot of people following the bandwagon.

I placed my expectations realistically regarding all these projects and that’s why I’m not disappointed with any of them (well with this project I have some doubts) so far.

Yeah, for whatever reason, I think I kept my expectations for the projects I backed much more attainable than a lot of people did. If anything, they were on the low side, and results so far have been much better than I expected.

Which isn't to say I didn't expect them to be great, but they're graphically a lot better than I anticipated. Even Moebius and SpaceVenture, I thought were going to be 2D and very low-budget, and they look much nicer than that. Leisure Suit Larry I don't love all the art, but it looks a lot better than the demo they showed during the campaign. Tex Murphy has utterly blown me away; I had a very low expectation for that game's graphics based on Big Finish's earlier games, and it actually looks really good.

Keep your expectations in check and you'll never be disappointed.

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One could argue both ways regarding the art style and whether or not it looks mature or not. I've just come back from visiting an art museum with my kids today, and many paintings there looked a bit like the art style of the DFA. And i would think that mostly "mature" people go visit this art collection. On the other hand it also resembles some cartoons and kids shows i've seen.

Its not my favorite art style but i've seen a loooot worse too - it has grown on me quite a bit since the first look at the trailer. However...im still a little worried about the animations. Specifically, the "cheering" animations and those 2 "creatures" on the train. It looks...um..weird and a bit like a puppet cartoon. Which of course many might like...i just dont :)

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I love the primitivism many Paul Klee paintings share. Well, i generally love his work. Children as well as adults can enjoy his paintings because there is something in them which you can grok intuitively, some invisible relationships/meaning which makes them interesting to look at. Once you give attention to the thoughts and theory behind the paintings you also know why they were/are interesting to watch.

Obviously there also exists great art where you need to be grown up first in order to appreciate it.

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My own impressions are very good - wonderful visuals + an intriguing connection between the two main characters. One thing that doesn't entirely fit is that the music has an air of mystery and tension about it, while the shown scenes seem rather straightforward and innocent. The closest to "creepy" that the visuals went was the girl feeling uncomfortable with her happy family and the fairly disturbing faces of the toys in the train. It felt something's missing in the presentation.

From the development point of view I like that this is just an intriguing teaser and you guys didn't bother with spending production time on some extravaganza, but are already back to working on the game itself. The behind-the-scenes documentary probably steals a lot of your time anyway.

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Amazing WORK!! Nathan's style is AWESOME!

Breaking the ground in terms of graphics!

The animations are also awesome!

BRAVO!!!

BRAVO!!!

and

BRAVO!!!

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After seeing some of the paintings on Nathan Stapley's website I must say that I would feel really sorry for any young kid who read a children's book with that kind of images...

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There are quite a lot of other kickstarter projects that will get a lot of backlash based on the low budgets.

And the general public seems to completely forget that much/most of the $$$ pledged goes to backer rewards. They're all like "Oh, so and so is a millionaire now". Drives me up the wall. Sorry for ranting...

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One thing that doesn't entirely fit is that the music has an air of mystery and tension about it, while the shown scenes seem rather straightforward and innocent. The closest to "creepy" that the visuals went was the girl feeling uncomfortable with her happy family and the fairly disturbing faces of the toys in the train. It felt something's missing in the presentation.

The girl knows she's about to be sacrificed and the boy is a "prisoner" on his spaceship. I think music with an air of tension and claustrophobia is entirely fitting. Of course the video doesn't convey this backstory as it's only a teaser. It's meant to make us wonder.

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Am I the only one that feels a little depressed after going through this thread? I mean, I'll try to be as clear as I can. Everyone, backer or not, has the right to like or not this small peek of the game we now have (and the final game). This is respectable, the game being something you don't like. But I'm finding the discussion so sad... In the sense that it actually saddens me, not trying to be offensive here.

Some thoughts I've been having

1) Re: "the art is childish, or even (gasp) bad or (double gasp!) really bad". MAYBE you could argue that art like Bagel's can be found on children's books. But if that's the case, those certainly are the most exquisite of children's books. Many little lullabies for children are on the same boat, we find them simplistic because they are for children, but they are actually SO solid when it comes to their craftsmanship, it's almost scary. Bagel's art is amazing art. Maybe you don't think it's good VIDEOGAME art. I think it is, but maybe that is a bit more open for debate, though that's not exactly the argument I'm reading over here, I think.

2)This KickStarter was an IMMENSE risk. It is the only one to date that so boldly decided to go with "we don't have a game in mind, we just have no idea whatsoever what we'll do". This is coming back to bite us in the rear, as many people chose to back, only to have their expectations not met. This is lifted directly from the KS page's FAQ section: Q: What will the game be? A: Other than that it will be an old school adventure, we're not sure. That's the beauty of it! Everything will unfold in front of the cameras with help from you!". I'd like to applaud Double Fine for this. This was not the same as being lazy: the project IS the discovery and the documentary, as much (or even more) as it is a final game. It's funny to see how most projects are APPARENTLY doing the same thing and showing backers the work being done behind the scenes, but then this only means the description of a system or the pondering of a couple of technical solutions. Nothing wrong with that, of course, just that this was something ENTIRELY different. We ALL (team included!!!) went in blind, and THAT is the true Double Fine Adventure we had unfolding before us. I think we would all pound to the ground someone on KS saying nowadays they have no clue what they are going to do, but want our money anyway. That first step has been DECISIVE and sets a stronger difference with everyone else than you might see at first glance.

3) The thing that I am feeling THE MOST right now is a HUGE NEED to have some sort of direct channel with the entire team (and Tim in particular, and Bagel) to offer my most sincere and heartfelt admiration for their work, and the decisions taken along the way. I don't want a reply from the team, I just need to know they know some of us are amazingly grateful for their work, and for being a part of this journey. I honestly feel like if the project ended now (without a playable game at all), it would be the project from which I got the most out. I just hope the team knows, I really really hope they do.

Sorry for the long post, needed to get it off my chest.

Cheers,

Juan Miguel

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Hey Juan, just want to quickly pop in here to say thanks for the post! I'm not on DFA but I can reassure you that the team, and in fact the whole studio, including those of us on other projects, are constantly uplifted and amazed by the support of our fans on this journey. It is equally nerve wrecking, exciting, and rewarding all at once for everybody here. I think it is kind of overwhelming to keep up with all the forum posts, esp those on DfA since they are so busy, but trust me they know, and really really really do appreciate the love. Glad to hear you have gotten so much out of this adventure already!

Also, if you want to directly tell any team members, for example Tim, he is very easily reachable on Twitter @timoflegend.

Cheers,

DFJane

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Still have no clue as to what the game is about. The title would be more meaningful in context.The music sounds like something from one of the Wild Tangent hidden object games.

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My own impressions are very good - wonderful visuals + an intriguing connection between the two main characters. One thing that doesn't entirely fit is that the music has an air of mystery and tension about it, while the shown scenes seem rather straightforward and innocent. The closest to "creepy" that the visuals went was the girl feeling uncomfortable with her happy family and the fairly disturbing faces of the toys in the train. It felt something's missing in the presentation.

From the development point of view I like that this is just an intriguing teaser and you guys didn't bother with spending production time on some extravaganza, but are already back to working on the game itself. The behind-the-scenes documentary probably steals a lot of your time anyway.

Maybe it's just because I know a little about the story (but then so does anyone who has read anything about the game, now) but I thought the mystery and tension was there throughout.

There was the girl, looking worried while her family seem all proud and happy and laughing, there was the boy calmly eating his cereal while there's red alert lights flashing in the background, then him on the rollercoaster looking fed up while those weird things in the back are freaking out, it all points towards something being very off in these kids' lives, while the imagery itself is quite strange and other-worldly.

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The part I liked the most in the trailer seeing the boy in a cushioned spacesuit, what looks like a seat-belt and a scarf (you know, space is cold). Made me laugh. Obviously he's being over-protected (it's surprising the spacesuit doesn't also have reflective lights).

I'm guessing his only way out is to blow the spaceship or something like that.

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Can't say I am blown away by the trailer. I am ok with the art style, but it gave so little in terms of content. There is a boy and a girl, he is in a spaceship, she is in some other place and... that's kind of it. Without the knowledge picked up reading these forums and watching the backer videos, that's all I would have seen there - meaning, that's what the rest of the world likely saw. Yes, if you go back and re-watch carefully, you will pick up a few more interesting details, but most people aren't going to do that. So for me, as a piece of promotional material for the game, the trailer was too nuanced and didn't do enough to draw in a potential audience. Reading between the lines, it feels like Broken Age knows its main characters, but still doesn't really know it's full story, and so it isn't really ready to "tease" the world about it. Not yet, anyway. I am sure there will be more trailers in the future that will fill the gap in time, but from this perspective, the Moebius trailer actually did a better job than the Broken Age one, in my opinion.

Having said all that, I still have 100% faith in Tim and the rest of the team, and would like to express my ongoing appreciation and support for their talent, courage, and work. Go Reds!

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Hey jmexio I hear ya, but everybody has a right to their opinion, positive or negative, I don’t want to live a world full of yes men, where everybody conforms to the same thing and we end in a circle congratulating ourselves for breathing.

There’s already this unnecessary (which I’m also part of I guess) need to argue or refute someone simply because they have an opposite view rather than let it pass as subjective opinion. An opinion on art is possibly the perfect example of subjectivity, there’s not good taste or bad taste, there just is.

The best way to show your appreciation for a creator is to support their work, words are wind they’ll make you feel good/bad on one day you’ll forget them the next, but on going support is an entity of its own, is the entity that kept DF alive to this day and it’s the entity that funded this project.

I don’t want people to be afraid to speak their minds (as long as they do so civilly) because they may hurt somebody’s feelings, professional developers should have a hard enough hide to withstand criticism just or unjust, just as they shouldn’t delude themselves that they can do no wrong.

I’m sure the developers of Superman 64 worked hard and did not intend to make one of the most awful games in history so I can reference it now, but they did. Should we have praised them instead? Professional game development is not a bunch of 6 year old kids playing soccer, they can’t all be winners.

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Hey jmexio I hear ya, but everybody has a right to their opinion, positive or negative, I don’t want to live a world full of yes men, where everybody conforms to the same thing and we end in a circle congratulating ourselves for breathing.

There’s already this unnecessary (which I’m also part of I guess) need to argue or refute someone simply because they have an opposite view rather than let it pass as subjective opinion. An opinion on art is possibly the perfect example of subjectivity, there’s not good taste or bad taste, there just is.

(...)

I’m sure the developers of Superman 64 worked hard and did not intend to make one of the most awful games in history so I can reference it now, but they did. Should we have praised them instead? Professional game development is not a bunch of 6 year old kids playing soccer, they can’t all be winners.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, Arenageth :)

Regarding the first paragraph, I agree, everyone has a right to their own opinions, I tried to state that as early as possible also (maybe it wasn't clear enough).

Now, the thing is, I see this as a bit more nuanced than just opinions... We can all disagree on what we like and dislike, and that is a beautiful thing.

But not everything is subjective.

There are standards, parameters. You can say you hate Bagel's take on something, and that falls into personal opinion. But saying the art is bad is not the same thing at all. There is an objective degree of technical competence, an amount of personal visions and philosophies weaved in that should prevent it from being labeled "childish", which is very clearly here a derogatory term (ie "lack of maturity", and not just aimed at children). This art is mature, from a technical, aesthetic, I'd guess even philosophical point of view.

Now, of course you can say you disagree with that, but art itself has a set of skills, values and traditions you can refer to and be measured by. If someone is not aware of them I would suggest that that "opinion" is not as valid, especially when it's not really a personal opinion but a judgement of value. Again, not liking the work is different that thinking the work is bad work. Liking/disliking gets a free pass on any kind of analysis, critiquing/evaluating not so much.

This is different, probably, than the Superman 64 example. I haven't had the pleasure of playing it (heard it's horrible, of course) but I'd guess there were some clear objective flaws with it as a whole. I won't go further because of (blissful it seems) ignorance on this case, sorry :lol:

So, I think there is a line between opinion and fact (let's not get too phenomenological, please), which might be, ironically enough, subjective to locate exactly. But there should be a difference between saying you find something beautiful and saying that your nose is on your knee, the first one is a personal observation, the second one just a factual mistake (or a very elaborate metaphor for something I don't get :lol: ).

The game's art being childish and immature falls into the "nose in knee" camp for me, I'd love to see arguments for the opposite view, as I consider saying something is immature is not a subjective evaluation, but an objective evaluation of some sort.

Cheers,

Juan Miguel

PS: Of course we can write books about this (any indeed many have been written). It's easy enough to try to poke holes in my argument a million ways, which would require extensive discussion. I think my main line of reasoning is clear though, some apparent criticism is actually not just "opinion", but most likely a deficient (ignorant? even non-existant?) evaluation of accepted/conventional cultural and technical practices, or an extremely lazy/misleading/just-plain-wrong way of expressing dissent/personal preference.

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Can't say I am blown away by the trailer. I am ok with the art style, but it gave so little in terms of content. There is a boy and a girl, he is in a spaceship, she is in some other place and... that's kind of it. Without the knowledge picked up reading these forums and watching the backer videos, that's all I would have seen there - meaning, that's what the rest of the world likely saw. Yes, if you go back and re-watch carefully, you will pick up a few more interesting details, but most people aren't going to do that. So for me, as a piece of promotional material for the game, the trailer was too nuanced and didn't do enough to draw in a potential audience. Reading between the lines, it feels like Broken Age knows its main characters, but still doesn't really know it's full story, and so it isn't really ready to "tease" the world about it. Not yet, anyway. I am sure there will be more trailers in the future that will fill the gap in time, but from this perspective, the Moebius trailer actually did a better job than the Broken Age one, in my opinion.

Having said all that, I still have 100% faith in Tim and the rest of the team, and would like to express my ongoing appreciation and support for their talent, courage, and work. Go Reds!

This is really a teaser. They usually don't show you anything except something to tease you. Like for example the first teaser for the first new star trek movie
it had nothing but showing the enterprise.

Moebius they said it was a trailer and I found it pretty confusing one.

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Hey jmexio I hear ya, but everybody has a right to their opinion, positive or negative, I don’t want to live a world full of yes men, where everybody conforms to the same thing and we end in a circle congratulating ourselves for breathing.

...

I’ll try to be as clear as I can. Everyone, backer or not, has the right to like or not this small peek of the game we now have (and the final game). This is respectable, the game being something you don’t like. But I’m finding the discussion so sad… In the sense that it actually saddens me, not trying to be offensive here.

It's literally the first thing he says, that he's not trying to say people 'shouldn't' dislike it or whatever, but just that he is finding the amount negativity saddening.

Personally, I agree and disagree.

I agree in that a lot of the negative comments I'm finding a little sad because they're often based on either :

a) a real lack of appreciation of the work that has gone into into creating the visual style we've got (these are the comments that are along the lines of the art style looking cheap or simplistic when it's really just demonstrably anything but)*

or b) an assumption that because the art is very stylized and and individualistic, they're not going to get the classic adventure game they wanted, when there's no reason to think that based on what we know. It has always been the case that they were trying to make a game that recalls classic adventure games without being a museum piece, and Tim's adventure games of old have worked with a wide variety of art styles.

But as for someone just not being into the art style - well, whatever. I love it but I wouldn't expect everyone to. I do hope it grows on them, but I can't get mad or even sad if someone's just honestly not into it. And I can't get that sad in general because as far as I can tell the reaction to the trailer has, on the whole, been very positive.

* and to be clear here I'm not saying because it was worked hard on it has to be good, I'm just saying that comments along the line of it being cheap or simplistic are ignorant.

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I agree that some things can be measured, in fact I said that before, but bad art and good art are not one of them.

One man’s garbage is another man’s treasure you can’t objectively judge the personal lens we see things through, because each and everyone is different.

Let’s create a simple example using fruits, let’s say I like bananas but hate grapes, they’re fruit, the same yet so very different, obviously when I eat grapes they leave a bad taste in my mouth, thus I think grapes are bad. Are they bad though really? Millions of people eat them everyday, but what does that matter when they are bad for me.

Now, if you try to argue that grapes are bigger than bananas then, you can be proven wrong by measurable facts, there’s no subjectivity to it, bananas are just bigger than grapes, fact.

Art is the same way, if some people find the art childish they find it childish is, who are you me or they to tell them otherwise? The thought police?

Now if somebody said, that the art is badly drawn (and I don’t think any backer said that, others might have), as in lacks technique attributed to that particular style, then you can prove them wrong using color correction or line symmetry or whatever.

Superman 64 was just an example, you can swap it with anything in any entertainment experience you found awful and it was commonly critically panned.

You went through life laughing and bowing to everything? You never had a bad experience with some food, a movie a game and said this is bad I don’t like it?

Or nothing is ever bad, everything is great and we should appreciate the plague because the rat that spread it might be offended?

Hell is paved with good intentions, everybody works hard (well not really but let’s delude ourselves for a bit) but not everyone is rewarded accordingly, some of the greatest artists of the past are a good example of that.

To reiterate, opinion is a selfish thing, make no mistake about it, as it should be, we are a vast amount of individuals not a hive mind.

You judge people who may have a certain negative opinion as emotionally biased ignorant or whatever, someone could say the same exact thing to you…

EDIT: PS: If I come off a bit aggressive forgive me I mean no offence.

It's literally the first thing he says, that he's not trying to say people 'shouldn't' dislike it or whatever, but just that he is finding the amount negativity saddening.

I realized that, the rest of his post makes it sound as if people should be ashamed to be negative if that’s what they genuinely feel because somebody’s feelings might get hurt.

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@SurplusGamer: I agree with you, and thanks for using a bit of my message to expand on some things.

@Arenegeth: I understand what you say, rest assured. But what you think I'm saying and the things you assume I think, if I read you correctly, is really *really* far from what I'm trying to convey. I'm most certainly not doing the best of jobs explaining, so sorry about that. Again, thanks for taking the time to reply, it's always interesting to engage in thoughtful conversations,

Cheers,

Juan Miguel

PS: Double Fine rules! :)

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Haha should never have watched this, now im even more hyped! xD

Simply cannot wait to play this game, it just looks better and better.

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Woohoo!

On the lighter side, is the music the first time we hear something from the in-game music?

Basically. There's been very little mention of the music so far in the documentaries, in the latest episode it looked like they were just getting started with full production on the music side.

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Woohoo!

On the lighter side, is the music the first time we hear something from the in-game music?

Basically. There's been very little mention of the music so far in the documentaries, in the latest episode it looked like they were just getting started with full production on the music side.

Some of the music in the documentary episodes was early stuff from the game.

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Arenegoth, just wanted to state that i agree with you completely - and so far i havent seen anyone inhere actually hating the game or behaving like a "hater". There's been a bit of (imo constructive) criticism regarding the art style mostly which is to be expect with every game during a development. A wise man once said that the best form of criticism is the negative one - this is more useful than only receiving praise.

A wild thought (in an optimal world) would have been giving the backers a bit of power in choosing an art style from the very early beginning of development - but even then, it would most surely show that the backers have different taste in art and we'd probably have the same debate we're having right now :)

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I think both sides of this recent debate make good points. People should feel free to express their views and opinions, positive or negative. In fact they should be encouraged to do so. I think the issue that some people have taken with some of the negative posts has less to do with the fact that they're negative and more to do with the way they're phrased/presented. From reading this thread it seemed like a lot of the people who had a negative opinion made very short posts that presented subjective judgement or opinions as facts. To be fair, a lot of the people who had positive things to say pretty much did the same.

I definitely agree that the quality of art is completely subjective, but at the same time many of the negative opinions expressed here completely discount or are dismissive of the technical execution and skill required to make the visuals of the game. I think everyone could get along better if there was less "the art is childish/bad" and more "I don't like the art style because the aesthetic reminds me of childish things." Obviously I'd love it if people wanted to elaborate further, but you get the idea.

A wild thought (in an optimal world) would have been giving the backers a bit of power in choosing an art style from the very early beginning of development - but even then, it would most surely show that the backers have different taste in art and we'd probably have the same debate we're having right now :)

Please NEVER this. My biggest fear for this project was that they would give too much control, or solicit too much feedback, or put too much weight on feedback from backers. Who among us really thinks they should be telling Tim (or anyone at Double Fine) what they should make? In my opinion, the BEST thing about crowd funding is that brilliant creative people can make the things they are inspired to make without influence from outside parties. Traditionally in the context of videogames, those outside parties have been publishers, but I honestly believe that backers could have an even more destructive effect on projects.

I think you're right-on in that last sentence. You can't please everyone. While I love that DF is giving us a window into this project from the very beginning (it's one of my favourite things about it, even), I think that one of their biggest challenges/obstacles will be dealing with backer disappointment. Not that I think the game will be bad, but every single one of us 90,000 or so backers had a different vision in our head when they said "point and click adventure." With projects that are further along, people can look at the art style, or read the synopsis, or sometimes even play the demo, and say whether or not it's something they would like. Leaving it ambiguous means they didn't turn anyone away at the start, but it also means that not all of those people will be happy with where the game winds up.

For whatever it's worth, I'm still really looking forward to it.

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You can't compare fruits with art, that's a rather bad comparison. You're free to like and dislike whatever you want but just because you like something doesn't make it art. Despite that people are still struggling to find one proper definition for art, there do exist certain interpretations which sound rather reasonable. Maybe it's a little bit like with the string theory, one theory to rule them all is still too complex to deal with on a daily basis so we have less accurate smaller but in their specialised fields nonetheless good enough working theories.

Art triggers emotions, makes you thinking, has a certain kind of depth, includes truth and knowledge we somehow all can rely to due to that we all are humans living in the same universe, ... to shorten this up, you're entitled to your opinion but whilst taste is subjective, your taste as well as art is based on some fundamental objective laws and truths beyond craftsmanship were, speaking of paintings, the composition of colours, shapes, proportions, placement, the stroke, ... can make the difference.

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(...) A wild thought (in an optimal world) would have been giving the backers a bit of power in choosing an art style from the very early beginning of development (...)

OK, I actually wrote quite a long message to reply, but I erased it to spare everyone :)

I'll just say this, I don't think having such a central part of the game voted on would have been a good idea. I want a Double Fine game, coming from Double Fine. A "design by committee" mindset could lead us somewhere else... And I prefer these guys to work with the people they want to work, on the things they want to work on. Even if the end result is not to my liking (not the case so far, but could very well still happen), it will be an original, unique, and above all authentic set of choices, playing to all of Double Fine's strengths.

I find that worth backing, even if I don't enjoy the final game (KS is a gamble...).

Oh, and just in case, this IS a matter of personal preference, so I'll state for the record (taps on mic: "is this on?") that I'm not trying to say anyone is wrong at all. Just hope you'll let me express my views... Can I? Thanks a bunch. :)

EDIT: I had not seen taumel's nor SlothOnFire's posts before mine. @taumel, I'm with you mate!. @SlothOnFire brilliant post!! I was composing a more verbose reply like yours, but decided I had bored you to death already for the day. So glad you went ahead with a longer (and very well written) reply!

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...I've just realized, I've never seen a 2D adventure game that had in-engine cinematics

Is that a first?

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