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A New Double Fine Kickstarter

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TotalBiscuit's show Content Patch covered the new Kickstarter (00:41-06:01):

He seems to be pretty confused about things, as he claims that DFA has spent 3.5 million dollars of its budget.

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I am a direct and honest person, so that's the feedback you can expect from me.

Personally, I think it's in bad form to launch another kickstarter when you haven't delivered on the first.

Are you sure they haven't? Hours and hours of documentary, art being made, music drafts being shown...

I think they've delivered.

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TotalBiscuit's show Content Patch covered the new Kickstarter (00:41-06:01):

He seems to be pretty confused about things, as he claims that DFA has spent 3.5 million dollars of its budget.

i thought it was kind of clear that they had spent the kickstarter money and needed a bit more and that is how I'm a slacker backer

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Personally, I think it's in bad form to launch another kickstarter when you haven't delivered on the first.

I guess the key thing to look at here is that there are multiple teams within DF and having a second one (amongst more than two) which is making a project that is a better match for crowdfunding than other funding methods isn't a bad thing specifically.

I can understand though that DF's ability to deliver a finished product from a crowdfunded project is unproven, though I find it hard to not have faith in them based on their history and the content delivered via the DFA (I am happy to admit that I'm a totally biased fanperson though :D )

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I don't think it's ever bad form to launch a kickstarter, unless you're actively lying or misleading with it. That's the great thing about it. Nobody chooses what games get funded by kickstarter except all of us. If too many people didn't trust DF enough to double down on kickstarting before Broken Age was released, the campaign would have tanked, but it didn't. The fact that they've almost hit a pretty ambitious crowdfunding goal within just a few days is a vote of confidence in DF's approach, and so they were almost by definition right to do the kickstarter. The 3 things a developer needs to ask themselves before launching a kickstarter is:

Are you able to deliver on the goals?

Do you mean to deliver on the goals?

Will successful funding give you enough money to deliver on the goals?

If the answer to that is yes, there's no reason not to ask, honestly 'will you give me some money to make this thing?'. Further questions like 'Am I comfortable backing DF when they still have an unfinished Kickstarter project?' are not for Double Fine, they're for the backers. It's fine to decide you're not comfortable with that, but that doesn't mean they don't get to ask - and as you see, the response so far has been very positive.

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TotalBiscuit's show Content Patch covered the new Kickstarter (00:41-06:01):

He seems to be pretty confused about things, as he claims that DFA has spent 3.5 million dollars of its budget.

i thought it was kind of clear that they had spent the kickstarter money and needed a bit more and that is how I'm a slacker backer

No, that's not the case. A couple of months ago, they still had quite a lot of money left in the game budget from the initial kickstarter, however they are projecting into the future that they won't have enough to make the game all they want it to be. So they're getting extra funding from various places: Humble Bundle, Brutal Legend PC, Slacker Backers to help secure the budget, and also having discussions where they're trying to nail down the timetable and scope once and for all.

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They will never die. When their bodies start to grow old they'll just insert their brains into brain tanks and make excellent games until the end of times.

Also they will achieve world domination.

Double Fine was founded with Permadeath in mind. When Double Finers die, they leave behind a relic that can be equipped by future Double Finers, making them more powerful than their predecessors ;)

As far the controversy around them doing another Kickstarter, I think they are well within their rights to do it. As noted in that TotalHalibut video, if enough people like the sound of the game and wish to pay for it, there's clearly demand for it and therefore incentive to use Kickstarter. In addition to this, I don't see a big publisher like Sega, EA or Activision funding a game like this.

The only part of this Kickstarter that kinda bugs me a bit is the price raise for HD documentaries, it was $30 for DFA and seeing as the videos are going to be not in the same vain as the Broken Age documentary, I don't really see why the price has gone up. Then again, seeing as the updates are going to be more technical and less emphasis on story, it will be interesting to see the actual mechanics develop over the course of the project. have backed already for $20 for that reason, but will ponder over the next couple of days to see if the HD docs, early access and soundtrack are worth it.

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The only part of this Kickstarter that kinda bugs me a bit is the price raise for HD documentaries, it was $30 for DFA and seeing as the videos are going to be not in the same vain as the Broken Age documentary, I don't really see why the price has gone up.

They are not actually selling them on Kickstarter. It's just a reward for people who donate 50$. I'm sure you can get them cheaper after the game is finished.

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the whole relics left behind after death is an interesting idea but i was wondering if there were any specifics on how that would work, like for example are the relics going to be equipped in a special relic slot or will it be like pieces of armour or weapons? and will future generations be able to equip more than one relic? and will the relics be totally random or will they be based on some kind of statistic eg. battles won or enemies killed by the hero or amount of spells used etc.

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They are not actually selling them on Kickstarter. It's just a reward for people who donate 50$. I'm sure you can get them cheaper after the game is finished.

Yeah I know. To be honest another reason I'm annoyed is because I'm a little low on funds and trying to budget, with this announcement its making it really hard not to :P Might as well pay that wee bit extra, just means less drink at the pub next week. ;)

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Might as well pay that wee bit extra, just means less drink at the pub next week. ;)
Indeed, life is all about resource management! Ha.

Fun pills and sleds for everyone.

Smiles

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They will never die. When their bodies start to grow old they'll just insert their brains into brain tanks and make excellent games until the end of times.

Also they will achieve world domination.

Double Fine was founded with Permadeath in mind. When Double Finers die, they leave behind a relic that can be equipped by future Double Finers, making them more powerful than their predecessors ;)

As far the controversy around them doing another Kickstarter, I think they are well within their rights to do it. As noted in that TotalHalibut video, if enough people like the sound of the game and wish to pay for it, there's clearly demand for it and therefore incentive to use Kickstarter. In addition to this, I don't see a big publisher like Sega, EA or Activision funding a game like this.

The only part of this Kickstarter that kinda bugs me a bit is the price raise for HD documentaries, it was $30 for DFA and seeing as the videos are going to be not in the same vain as the Broken Age documentary, I don't really see why the price has gone up. Then again, seeing as the updates are going to be more technical and less emphasis on story, it will be interesting to see the actual mechanics develop over the course of the project. have backed already for $20 for that reason, but will ponder over the next couple of days to see if the HD docs, early access and soundtrack are worth it.

I believe the docs are still going to be HD for everyone, just not downloadable.

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I really like the genre and I think I will back this, too ^^

Very funny kickstarter video *g*

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I hope I don't get banned for saying this but...

I backed the new Kickstarter when it was launched in the small hope that it would be a good game because the concept does sound cool, but after that Interview video I have lost my confidence completely, and removed my pledge.

The idea sounds great but the guy in charge (despite coming off as really enthusiastic) doesn't seem to have any idea about strategy games in general or the fact that strategy games live or die by their mechanics. I was hoping that when he mentioned X-COM in the video he meant the old X-COM but unfortunately he seems to mean the new popamole consolized piece of garbage XCOM Enemy Unknown).

The list of games this team has under their belt also might be cool ideas but the mechanics behind them were terrible.

The pitch of this game seems to mostly be relying around 'clever' marketing tactics.

A recommendation to the team would be having a look at stuff like Crusader Kings 2 for the campaign map / lineage type stuff and games like Jagged Alliance 2 (or Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic) for a look at mechanics in a turn-based strategy done properly.

Anyway good luck with the game and I hope it's not terrible, but I am not optimistic at all at this point.

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I hope I don't get banned for saying this but...

I backed the new Kickstarter when it was launched in the small hope that it would be a good game because the concept does sound cool, but after that Interview video I have lost my confidence completely, and removed my pledge.

The idea sounds great but the guy in charge (despite coming off as really enthusiastic) doesn't seem to have any idea about strategy games in general or the fact that strategy games live or die by their mechanics. I was hoping that when he mentioned X-COM in the video he meant the old X-COM but unfortunately he seems to mean the new popamole consolized piece of garbage XCOM Enemy Unknown).

The list of games this team has under their belt also might be cool ideas but the mechanics behind them were terrible.

The pitch of this game seems to mostly be relying around 'clever' marketing tactics.

A recommendation to the team would be having a look at stuff like Crusader Kings 2 for the campaign map / lineage type stuff and games like Jagged Alliance 2 (or Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic) for a look at mechanics in a turn-based strategy done properly.

Anyway good luck with the game and I hope it's not terrible, but I am not optimistic at all at this point.

There certainly are no guarantees that Massive Chalice is going to be a great game. And while I really wanted to like Iron Brigade, the hectic gameplay was not made for me and I did not download it after playing the demo. Jagged Alliance 2 is briliant but so are Final Fantasy Tactics and Fire Emblem and X-Com, the old ones (the first two anyway) and in my opinion even the "new popamole consoled piece of garbage", as you call it. Fine by me if you don't like it, but I am. So. Sick. Of people accusing others of having no idea of this and that because they don't share their tastes. At this funding level I expect a streamlined, polished gameplay experience and I think DF will deliver.

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Anyway good luck with the game and I hope it's not terrible, but I am not optimistic at all at this point.

There certainly are no guarantees that Massive Chalice is going to be a great game.

Crowdfunding is about leaps of faith (on both sides of the fence). It's OK to not feel like a project is for you - it would be a pretty sad community indeed that banned you for voicing something like that ^_^

That said, if the idea was initially attractive to you, I'd suggest keeping an eye on the bits and pieces that come out with the updates. During the X-COM live stream, some differences between "Old X-COM" and "New X-COM" were discussed. It's possible that some of your concerns are addressed in there :)

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Anyway good luck with the game and I hope it's not terrible, but I am not optimistic at all at this point.

There certainly are no guarantees that Massive Chalice is going to be a great game.

Crowdfunding is about leaps of faith (on both sides of the fence). It's OK to not feel like a project is for you - it would be a pretty sad community indeed that banned you for voicing something like that ^_^

That said, if the idea was initially attractive to you, I'd suggest keeping an eye on the bits and pieces that come out with the updates. During the X-COM live stream, some differences between "Old X-COM" and "New X-COM" were discussed. It's possible that some of your concerns are addressed in there :)

Oh, I lept ;-) Just to be clear.

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It is fair critic and anyone can wait the the game comes out and see the review.

I think the critic about game mechanics is a fair one, even when you go on other Double Fine games.

The story, the world, the art often balance it to make something memorable.

The fortnights are helping on that side and I believe that game design star might rise from this studio because it is build in such a way that with time, the talents will emerged.

Get a German board game designer in-house and see how all the future game becomes master pieces ;D!

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It's just too far outside of the scope of what I expect from Double Fine for me to buy it sight unseen.

When Tim Schafer says "I'm going to make an adventure game," that's enough for me, because Tim has done a lot of that. When Brad Muir says "I'm going to make a strategy-RPG" it means nothing to me, because he's never done that before. If there were more of a game to show, then maybe that would be able to sway me, but if you just want to rely on your name alone, people are going to expect you to do the expected, unfortunately.

I've bought pretty much every Double Fine game sooner or later (minus the Kinect ones), so I might find this appealing once it's out, but it isn't at that "say no more" level for me.

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I hope I don't get banned for saying this but...

I backed the new Kickstarter when it was launched in the small hope that it would be a good game because the concept does sound cool, but after that Interview video I have lost my confidence completely, and removed my pledge.

The idea sounds great but the guy in charge (despite coming off as really enthusiastic) doesn't seem to have any idea about strategy games in general or the fact that strategy games live or die by their mechanics. I was hoping that when he mentioned X-COM in the video he meant the old X-COM but unfortunately he seems to mean the new popamole consolized piece of garbage XCOM Enemy Unknown).

The list of games this team has under their belt also might be cool ideas but the mechanics behind them were terrible.

The pitch of this game seems to mostly be relying around 'clever' marketing tactics.

A recommendation to the team would be having a look at stuff like Crusader Kings 2 for the campaign map / lineage type stuff and games like Jagged Alliance 2 (or Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic) for a look at mechanics in a turn-based strategy done properly.

Anyway good luck with the game and I hope it's not terrible, but I am not optimistic at all at this point.

There certainly are no guarantees that Massive Chalice is going to be a great game. And while I really wanted to like Iron Brigade, the hectic gameplay was not made for me and I did not download it after playing the demo. Jagged Alliance 2 is briliant but so are Final Fantasy Tactics and Fire Emblem and X-Com, the old ones (the first two anyway) and in my opinion even the "new popamole consoled piece of garbage", as you call it. Fine by me if you don't like it, but I am. So. Sick. Of people accusing others of having no idea of this and that because they don't share their tastes. At this funding level I expect a streamlined, polished gameplay experience and I think DF will deliver.

Yup, pretty much this. I think Brad knows exactly what he's doing. He might not have made this sort of game before, but he is, as far as I can tell, very interested in systems as a game designer, so perfectly equipped to think about the things he needs to think about. And it might not be great, but I think it has a fantastic fighting chance! If someone isn't confident his taste is good enough by their standards to make a good game, then that's their decision to make, but let's frame it that way instead of pretending that these people have no idea what they're doing because they like XCOM.

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I think it is great that they try to expand their range of games. You have to start somewhere.

I'm a fan of Disciples, Heroes of Might and Magic, Valkyria Chronicles (first one is an awsome turn based strategy game) and currently I'm waiting for Stoics "The Banner Saga" which sounds in some aspects a litte bit similiar like what they want to do in Massive Chalice if I'm not mistaken.

I will wait with backing until they release some more information and updates about the game ^^

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Honestly, one should only back, contribute, and follow things that are of interest! I don't back things I am not interested in or care to follow in more detail. Once the game gets farther along, one can always become a slacker backer if the game sounds enticing. Or, one could always wait until the game has been released, and grab it an eventual steam or humble bundle deal if the enticement happens later. :)

Smiles

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I hope I don't get banned for saying this but...

I backed the new Kickstarter when it was launched in the small hope that it would be a good game because the concept does sound cool, but after that Interview video I have lost my confidence completely, and removed my pledge.

The idea sounds great but the guy in charge (despite coming off as really enthusiastic) doesn't seem to have any idea about strategy games in general or the fact that strategy games live or die by their mechanics. I was hoping that when he mentioned X-COM in the video he meant the old X-COM but unfortunately he seems to mean the new popamole consolized piece of garbage XCOM Enemy Unknown).

The list of games this team has under their belt also might be cool ideas but the mechanics behind them were terrible.

The pitch of this game seems to mostly be relying around 'clever' marketing tactics.

A recommendation to the team would be having a look at stuff like Crusader Kings 2 for the campaign map / lineage type stuff and games like Jagged Alliance 2 (or Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic) for a look at mechanics in a turn-based strategy done properly.

Anyway good luck with the game and I hope it's not terrible, but I am not optimistic at all at this point.

That pretty well sums up my feelings on the subject too. I withdrew my pledge after all the gay marriage stuff came up. Not because of the idea of gay marriage per say, but because it confused even the initial soft pitch for the game on Kickstarter. (Now it's a game about lineage/bloodlines - that also features gay marriage...? huh?)

The bottom line is: I really like Double Fine but there are a lot more deserving projects (my opinion) on Kickstarter right now.

I might change my mind, depending on the updates... but if they don't nail down some ideas by the last day - I'm probably going to pass.

Our Darker Purpose

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That pretty well sums up my feelings on the subject too. I to withdrew my pledge after all the gay marriage stuff came up. Not because of the idea of gay marriage per say, but because it confused even the initial soft pitch for the game on Kickstarter. (Now it's a game about lineage/bloodlines - that also features gay marriage...? huh?)

The bottom line is: I really like Double Fine but there are a lot more deserving projects (my opinion) on Kickstarter right now.

I might change my mind, depending on the updates... but if they don't nail some ideas down by the last day - I'm probably going to pass.

Obviously we are all entitled to our opinion. Your reasoning doesn't make much sense, but I am not going to try to convince you. :)

Best of luck, and have fun.

Smiles

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How doesn't it make sense? There's a lot of people with that concern. I am one of them.

Adding homosexual marriage into a game about lineages is all sorts of confusing. How is the monarch going to reproduce? Adoption? Ok, I'm assuming this is not meant to be based on reality at all so let's say that's a socially acceptable thing in the game, but then how is a relic of an ancestor supposed to be linked to the adopted child? Can't be by blood now can it. So if it's "Just cause" then why couldn't any character etc use it and get the same power?

There's all sorts of issues with adding in something like that.

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How doesn't it make sense? There's a lot of people with that concern. I am one of them.

Adding homosexual marriage into a game about lineages is all sorts of confusing. How is the monarch going to reproduce? Adoption? Ok, I'm assuming this is not meant to be based on reality at all so let's say that's a socially acceptable thing in the game, but then how is a relic of an ancestor supposed to be linked to the adopted child? Can't be by blood now can it. So if it's "Just cause" then why couldn't any character etc use it and get the same power?

There's all sorts of issues with adding in something like that.

In one of the first posts brad made about it he said he was thinking about a nature/nurture system where they get the abilities by different things.

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