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gsm

MASSIVE CHALICE - are you backing?

Are you going to be a MASSIVE CHALICE backer?  

426 members have voted

  1. 1. Are you going to be a MASSIVE CHALICE backer?

    • Yes, already a backer.
      228
    • Yes, I intend to be a backer.
      48
    • I would, but it’s too expensive.
      14
    • No, this one is enough for me.
      65
    • I haven’t decided yet, maybe I’ll be a slacker backer.
      62
    • Kickstarter? Polls? What is this, like, 2012?
      9


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I already backed it. To be 100% honest about it... I did kind of pause for a second when I got the DFA update saying they put up another Kickstarter. I was immediately skeptical. I think I would have rather they waited until Broken Age is released... This almost feels like "Broken Age might suck - so we need to get this in there while the getting's good." I'm not saying that's what's going on... but that's kind of what if felt like at the moment. Anyway, I got over it and backed.

It's more like, they have multiple projects going on at any single moment.

Fun pills and sleds for everyone!

Smiles

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It's more like, they have multiple projects going on at any single moment.

Fun pills and sleds for everyone!

Smiles

I'm aware of that... but do they all need to be on Kickstarter? Like I said, I got over it...

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It's more like, they have multiple projects going on at any single moment.

Fun pills and sleds for everyone!

Smiles

I'm aware of that... but do they all need to be on Kickstarter? Like I said, I got over it...

Well, we're glad you're on board, meisjoe!

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It's more like, they have multiple projects going on at any single moment.

Fun pills and sleds for everyone!

Smiles

I'm aware of that... but do they all need to be on Kickstarter? Like I said, I got over it...

There seems to be this idea that Kickstarter is supposed to be a final resort when all other funding methods fail, but in reality, it's the best funding method out there right now for what Double Fine wants to do.

Double Fine wants to be close to the fans, open out what they do, and they don't want to be shackled to a publisher that may demand things like the IP/publishing rights or force in terrible changes in an attempt to make the game more mass-marketable. Double Fine doesn't yet make enough money to self-fund a game as large as Massive Chalice, so they still have to look to outside funding for a project of its size, and what other viable funding method currently allows for the level of freedom and openness that they want aside from Kickstarter?

This Polygon article explains in further detail why Double Fine went back to Kickstarter again. There's also a good interview on Kotaku that goes into that as well.

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Yes, they want to be close, but isn't the Kickstarter project story the same every time? Something like, "we went to the publishers, things didn't work out, so we are doing a Kickstarter".

Crowdfunding is certainly a possible business model, but so far DF has presented it as last resort, so I don't know if they also think that way or just think it's the best way to get people on board.

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It was another no brainer for me. A genre I love, from my favourite developer. And this seems the best method of keeping DF free from ties to potential financial backing that might place demands on the games that don't have the games own interests in mind. I can well understand some being a little sceptical since BA is yet to be released, but I prefer to come from a stand point that until they disapoint me in some way I'll keep on backing. Plus I LOVE the 2PP vids from BA, so another chance to get to know other members of the DF family is fantastic. Hence me ensuring I went for the HD download option, despite not earning any money so far this year! :D

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@gsm

I believe it when DF says so but i also know about devs who said the same but never got in contact with a publisher and just used it as a selling argument for their pitch, which is kind of unfair against those who really went through all this and tried to get a deal with reasonable conditions.

Reading the polygon article, i would be interested to know how much funding DF would need for making Brazen.

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I backed, a bit annoyed that the prices seem higher this time around, but I've got so much enjoyment out of Broken Age already (and I don't know if you've noticed, it's not even out yet) that I decided it was worth it.

Like a lot of people I was slightly put off by another Kickstarter so soon, Broken Age would have been a proof of concept; this is a Kickstarter funded game we made, it's great, now back another one. If it has been anybody else I wouldn't have backed another project without them finishing the previous project, this is something even Kickstarter itself encourages, but having seen that Broken Age is coming along nicely and knowing that the studio has multiple projects going on all the time this feeling was gone by the end I watched the video.

Plus this is why I was excited about Kickstarter in the first place; no more publishers and studios creating games they want to make for people who want to play them, and dammit I want to play that game!

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@Syd That Polygon article was really good!

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I backed, a bit annoyed that the prices seem higher this time around

The thing is that rewards cost money to produce. Remember how 1 million dollars of the DFA-budget has to be spent on manufacturing and shipping of rewards. That's probably why the 725,000 dollar-budget allows them to have a much longer production cycle compared to what they could have done with a similar budget on Broken Age. I agree that this Kickstarter could do with some more (easy to produce digital) awards, however.

I backed this project primarily because of the fun I'm having with DFA and because I really enjoyed Amnesia Fortnight. Not sure if the genre appeals to me (I've never played XCOM), but at least it has a campaign mode and a setting I like. Seeing more of 2PPs stuff on a more mechanics-focused game is going to be awesome!

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This reminds me of the old joke in academia - take your ideas from one place and it's plagiarism, take them from multiple places and it's research.

Seriously, though, it does sound like a fun and promising idea, although it would have been nice to see a video with more game content, even if it could only be early concept art or whatever. I feel like most Kickstarter videos try and have more to show so they aren't asking on faith quite so much. We know by now DF/2PP can make funny videos, but it's neither here nor there in the grand scheme of things.

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This reminds me of the old joke in academia - take your ideas from one place and it's plagiarism, take them from multiple places and it's research.

Seriously, though, it does sound like a fun and promising idea, although it would have been nice to see a video with more game content, even if it could only be early concept art or whatever. I feel like most Kickstarter videos try and have more to show so they aren't asking on faith quite so much. We know by now DF/2PP can make funny videos, but it's neither here nor there in the grand scheme of things.

To quote the Polygon article:

Massive Chalice's Kickstarter campaign launched today with no gameplay footage, no complicated reward tiers and only a few pieces of concept art. Muir says they have what they would normally take to publishers, except they're now pitching the game directly to potential backers in the hope of making it a collaborative effort.

The team wants to bring the game to Kickstarter in a very early state so it can get the community involved right away. Muir says the reason they are bringing such a bare bones pitch to Kickstarter isn't because they have an under-developed idea — it's because they want their community's feedback on even the earliest game ideas.

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But I go back and forth with the DFA experience, and agree with Arenegeth on several points -- In the end, I think DFA would have been a great experience at the $15 level, but backing at $100+ has been a cautionary tale about getting too "enthusiastic" - especially when corporations are involved - and a touch disillusioning. Damn those expectations/hopes for ruining things.

I've mentioned this elsewhere, this sort of feeling reminds me of those who set a 5 or 10 year plan for their future, and if life takes them in another direction, they feel disillusioned and dejected. Personally, I know I've learned to enjoy life (and games) much more when you sort of takes things as they come. The trick is not necessarily to go into things without any expectations and hopes, since we will always have expectations and hopes, but that life (and games) are dynamic, and so are your experiences throughout life (and games).

I don't mean to necessarily single you out as well! The sentiment you expressed is immensely understandable. Best of luck.

Fun pills and sleds for everyone.

Smiles

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Not backing. I would never back more than one concurrent project from the same studio, just on principle. I don't want Kickstarter to be the default way games get made/bought, and Double Fine has plenty of other options, even if this one has some major benefits to them.

Plus, they just netted a million dollars from the last humble bundle and even with that and all the other deals they've had recently, they're still struggling to keep Broken Age on budget without pulling the scope back.

But even beyond that, Massive Chalice in particular doesn't appeal to me much. I like Double Fine for their humor and originality, and this seems to have neither. And there are a lot of other turn-based strategy RPGs coming up already, even if I was into that genre.

Don't get me wrong, I wish them well with it, but I'm not automatically going to back just because I like Double Fine.

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Considering how many games was ruined by publishers, i personally wouldn't mind if all their future games are launched as kickstarters.

It gives them full artistic freedom, and people are free to back, or treat it as any other game and buy at launch.

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Sure I'm backing it. Great art needs great patrons.

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I think DFA would have been a great experience at the $15 level, but backing at $100+ has been a cautionary tale

That’s exactly it. If I had pledged $15 for this Kickstarter whatever happened on the way would be a non-issue to me. It’s $15, the sandwich I eat for breakfast costs more than that.

But at $100+ it becomes an investment. Even the bloated AAA industry doesn’t charge more than $60 per copy on average (at least before the DLC and online passess kick in).

Though as we’ve seen with Kickstarter trends, the bulk of the backers usually come at the lowest entry point ($10-20), but the bulk of the money comes from the $100-200 backers.

Of course nobody forces us to pledge that high, but it is obviously encouraged by the creators, with various incentives, and since the option is there, is only natural for some of those who take it to build certain expectations. Though this should be a cautionary tale to both creators and backers.

serious movement in the right direction over the last month, hope it isn't just tied to prepping the base for this Kickstarter

I’ve noticed that as well, The Project Update threads for example is something I and others suggested some time last year, it has been so long I had assumed they thought it unnecessary, so I’m glad to see them added. A bit late for me since my interest has waned, but it looks like other backers appreciate it. I hope their progress is a natural realization that some improvements were needed than some attempt to sugar the pill before they’ve asked for money again. Because I’ve seen it happen with other projects, developers were very welcoming and communicative during the pitch, but as soon as the money was in the bank, they closed up like a clamshell.

Considering how many games was ruined by publishers, i personally wouldn't mind if all their future games are launched as kickstarters.

It gives them full artistic freedom, and people are free to back, or treat it as any other game and buy at launch.

The reason why that wouldn’t be good, is very simple. Kickstarter as a pure method of commerce is the absolute worst nightmare scenario for a consumer.

-Everything is overpriced.

- Little to no accountability besides potential career suicide.

-Limited and convoluted legal recourse in case things go wrong on a business model still tested in courts.

-Pre-pre-pre-pre order, with a big fat ? on when the game will actually get in your hands since almost every Kickstarter project suffered a delay.

Now imagine all those bullet points applied to a game that is in no way outside the norm of what a Publisher would release right now, imagine a big movie studio for example with several million dollars in the bank, fleecing it’s own fanbase to minimize the risk in order to give them something they wanted, oh wait that already happened...

Kickstarter is great for supporting entrepreneurs, inventors, artists and and small companies in order to get a headstart and become competitive, it is not a fully sustainable model, like all good things though people will start to treat it like that and ruin it before long...

The general idea among some of the gaming core public that Developers=Good Publishers=Evil and other ignorant behavior needs to STOP, period. It gives ammunition to those same loathed executives to describe us as Neanderthal homophobes and thus worthy only of disregard than honest discourse.

Also, Gearbox, Silicon Knights, 3D Realms, there’s some good guys for ya.

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I backed, a bit annoyed that the prices seem higher this time around, but I've got so much enjoyment out of Broken Age already (and I don't know if you've noticed, it's not even out yet) that I decided it was worth it.

I think the project they're planning is bigger than they were originally planning for Broken age.

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Haven't backed it. I'd back with a small sum ($5 tops) if I was promised posts with development insights similar to Broken Age's. I contacted Double Fine about that through Kickstarter but didn't get a reply. I might also back if they add Android as a platform for the game.

As is, I don't think I'll play this game, and I have more interesting Kickstarter projects I'm backing, so I'll pass.

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-Everything is overpriced.

- Little to no accountability besides potential career suicide.

-Limited and convoluted legal recourse in case things go wrong on a business model still tested in courts.

-Pre-pre-pre-pre order, with a big fat ? on when the game will actually get in your hands since almost every Kickstarter project suffered a delay.

If a consumer looks at Kickstarter as store, then yes. But that's one's own fault if one doesn't understand the PBS solicitation of funds + rewards model.

For those unsure, you can always just wait until the game comes out and gets reviewed. Chances are eventually, it will be knocked down in price on Steam or Gog.com, and you can get it for a steal. It is all about using your resources thoughtfully.

Smiles

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That’s exactly it. If I had pledged $15 for this Kickstarter whatever happened on the way would be a non-issue to me. It’s $15, the sandwich I eat for breakfast costs more than that.

You made me really curious: What kind of sandwiches do you eat that cost more than 15 bucks a piece? I'm assuming you don't eat your breakfast at a restaurant on a regular basis.

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Of course I'm in. Brad is an amazing game designer, so I will gladly throw money at his ideas.

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I'm backing it. I've adored Double Fine's output thus far, so a total no-brainer for me.

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You made me really curious: What kind of sandwiches do you eat that cost more than 15 bucks a piece? I'm assuming you don't eat your breakfast at a restaurant on a regular basis.

I don’t cook, or construct food in any way and all my meals are ordered in or eaten out, and some gourmet sandwiches cost more than $15 though I don’t eat them every day. On average though $10-20 seems like a good ballpark for a breakfast, I mean just the coffee in a Starbucks if I go that route is like $7.

If a consumer looks at Kickstarter as store, then yes. But that's one's own fault if one doesn't understand the PBS solicitation of funds + rewards model.

You are right that at the end of the day, it is the consumer’s fault for treating KS like pre-order service. All the anti-consumer practices in the game industry can also be traced back to the ignorant consumer.

That is the freaking problem, a business is a business, it will do anything to minimize costs and maximize profits, the problem is all the people that allow them to get away with the crap they do because they absolutely need that new shiny and their updated rosters and their fancy DLC swimsuits.

I recently started to notice better consumer awareness when it comes to video games, but I’m not too hopeful, whatever the case I’m crossing my fingers that the great Kickstarter-hope is not also ruined by greed and impatience.

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Hmm, i guess i've never eaten a sandwich for $15 but this kind of reminds me of Pulp Fiction now.

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I was in for $20 for sure, I love Tactical Strategy, and stuff like XCOM. But Brad's being awesome on the forums and everything, too, so I decided to up my pledge to $100 based on his really encouraging responses to various things.

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