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KestrelPi

Massive Chalice and same sex couples

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SAME SEX COUPLES ARE IN THE GAME BUT CANNOT PROCREATE OR BE SURROGETS

I don't really know anyone who wants this option. It obviously creates a strong imbalance (stronger than the situation with surrogates) and has the same problems. Doing nothing to address the imbalance causes same sex couples to be a limitation, and trying to address the imbalance creates optimal strategy.

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These are my reasons for why same sex couples should not be part of the bloodline mechanic. Please note that at no point did I say that they CANT do any of these things, only that they hurt the concept of the original pitch.

I agree with most of what you said except this part. Childless relationships can still have an impact on bloodlines in a very different way from the creation of children as I mentioned earlier in a blip...

Although now that I think about it, they could tie something more important than research to the side effect. Say House A/B has children Brandon and Adam and House C/D has children Amanda and Nathan. Then Brandon and Amanda get married and have children. If Adam and Nathan married other houses you branch out your tree of bloodlines giving more kids of more families a bigger pool of relics to choose. If they married each other and you just got good research it seems like it would be a big downside. You are cutting off their bloodlines and not getting a big return. But if they got something more awesome there could be a nice incentive like if Adam and Nathan got married and you could select certain studies, they could enhance their bloodline relic to be much stronger. So then you would have less bloodline relic options in exchange for the children of Brandon and Amanda having very powerful relics from their uncles. If you don't want same sex marriages they could have the identical option for straight marriages. I would think that would be a sweet strategic option.

Basically you have the strategic option to branch out your bloodline into several other bloodlines, or use more powerful bloodline relics to enhance your narrower bloodline. You could do it with straight or gay couples and it provides and extra layer of character choices. Do you have a warrior with an amazing relic from his gay uncle or do you have a warrior who has a cousin mixing into a magic house giving you more characters on the field? Do you risk your bloodline dying off in exchange for power? (less descendants = danger of permadeath the only child left in a line) This makes couples who have no children very useful to a bloodline without design issues of surrogates or the flaw of leaving them out of the bloodline process altogether.

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Finally made it to the end! Took hours... I am a pragmatic man, with views on stuff like what I think would be a cool game to play.

I got an image of sending my ageing warrior away on one final journey and at the end of that journey he will be sending back a young newly trained warrior of the same class grasping the sword of his now deceased master, bearing on his back the sacred cloth of house Aishavin, in his eyes the righteousness of this duty to serve the Lord Eternal until his dying breath.

This image is very clear to me and inspired by the awesome art that is being made for MC.

Why am I putting this in the same sex thread? Because I get the same picture seeing two characters leaving together, two male, two female, one of each or single like in the part above. I think it would be a satisfying way of ending a glorious character. All is not in the blood in my book at least. And in battle the images of the ones who came before will ride at the back of the new character.

And since I am at it, why is sex so important? Could we skip the whole thing by adding a gender ZXY that is the childbearing gender perhaps?

Or perhaps the appearance of gender is completely coincidental, some look male, some female and some something in between. It's a fantasy world, evolution could be out of the picture. Maybe female-lumps-in-the-front are used for shooting lasers? ;) And male in-between-the-legs-things are for fishing, who knows, show some imagination!

Another cool thing to have is the Sacred Band of Thebes (already mentioned, I know but it was one of the coolest images I got), it could possibly only be obtained at a stage where the civilisation is overpopulated, or not. I don't know what the statistics on homosexuality in any population is but if it is anything like having lefthanded people that would be cool to have as a mechanic. As long as the rewards are awesome, like an unparalleled elite fighting unit where the paired members will fight to the death if their partner is slain.

Don't judge me for liking a certain comic strip containing quite explicit sexual content, and humour. But a certain barbarian named Kronar makes a wonderful speech: "I am Kronar son of man. For a hundred generations my fathers have kept the bloodline pure. Free from woman's taint. Today my son is born." at which point the male midwife having delivered a child from a male viking exclaims: "What... sorcery... is this?" "Kronar... your son... is a woman!" And Kronar replies: "Affix the bow of shame. Cast her into the wolf pit." The strip has a continuation but the point being is that I get a wonderful Kronar feeling thanks to the bloodline theme :D

If anyone still cares after reading my bit, I would like to give thanks to Finvara and Oberyn, for making good ideas I like if not necessarily agree upon, and also Lycander, majugi and vaniver for trying to make some sense of this thread. Sorry if I left anyone out.

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(Haven't had time yet to read more than the first five and last couple pages of this thread, so sorry if someone's already brought this up. Rad discussion though!)

Have seen some mention of using gay couples as surrogates, which is usually the opposite of what happens when gay couples have kids. But there is a way to bring things (slightly) closer to reality while also giving you an additional strategic option:

Why not have it so that if you retire a gay couple to sire children and research stuff, that only one member of that couple is the genetic father/mother per offspring, while the other genetic mother/father (ie. the surrogate) is another hero of the opposite gender that you can keep on the battlefield? So maybe that surrogate just gets retired for a round and then gets straight back out there, leaving the happy couple to raise their child and research some sweet demon gear.

Any thoughts? Also I have no idea how any of this would work unless heroes have pre-assigned sexual preferences in their stats either from the start of their life or once they come of age, and you as king/queen can only marry like with like. Would be kinda weird otherwise, as you'd basically be deciding their sexual preferences for them, plus you'd then be able to game the system.

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Did this thread die or is everyone on vacation?

Haha, I'm sorry Aishavin. I did read your post, but I just didn't get round to replying because I've been a little burnt out talking about it.

Finally made it to the end! Took hours… I am a pragmatic man, with views on stuff like what I think would be a cool game to play.

Thanks for reading it all! I appreciate that people would do that. I'm a sort of design-oriented guy, and so I tend to think about in the context of 'okay, what's this game trying to do, and how could this work in a way that serves what the game is trying to do.' Which is basically a roundabout way of saying 'views on stuff like what I think would be a cool game to play.' ;)

I got an image of sending my ageing warrior away on one final journey and at the end of that journey he will be sending back a young newly trained warrior of the same class grasping the sword of his now deceased master, bearing on his back the sacred cloth of house Aishavin, in his eyes the righteousness of this duty to serve the Lord Eternal until his dying breath.

This image is very clear to me and inspired by the awesome art that is being made for MC.

Why am I putting this in the same sex thread? Because I get the same picture seeing two characters leaving together, two male, two female, one of each or single like in the part above. I think it would be a satisfying way of ending a glorious character. All is not in the blood in my book at least. And in battle the images of the ones who came before will ride at the back of the new character.

And since I am at it, why is sex so important? Could we skip the whole thing by adding a gender ZXY that is the childbearing gender perhaps?

Or perhaps the appearance of gender is completely coincidental, some look male, some female and some something in between. It’s a fantasy world, evolution could be out of the picture. Maybe female-lumps-in-the-front are used for shooting lasers? And male in-between-the-legs-things are for fishing, who knows, show some imagination!

In the recent reddit, Brad commented on this a little bit - saying that they've talked about various solutions, one of which being just totally ignoring the gritty details of how the baby arrives - but in the end he felt he wanted to make a more grounded fantasy world than that. And I think he agrees with me that there are ways to be inclusive that don't involve childbearing (such as the nature/nurture mechanics they're really looking into right now, and the idea of hero-led research that I mentioned in the first post). So I think the way there's coming down on this right now is that children come from male-female couples, but childten are potentially not the only reason to put two people together. I think I can respect that.

Another cool thing to have is the Sacred Band of Thebes (already mentioned, I know but it was one of the coolest images I got), it could possibly only be obtained at a stage where the civilisation is overpopulated, or not. I don’t know what the statistics on homosexuality in any population is but if it is anything like having lefthanded people that would be cool to have as a mechanic. As long as the rewards are awesome, like an unparalleled elite fighting unit where the paired members will fight to the death if their partner is slain.

Don’t judge me for liking a certain comic strip containing quite explicit sexual content, and humour. But a certain barbarian named Kronar makes a wonderful speech: “I am Kronar son of man. For a hundred generations my fathers have kept the bloodline pure. Free from woman’s taint. Today my son is born.” at which point the male midwife having delivered a child from a male viking exclaims: “What… sorcery… is this?” “Kronar… your son… is a woman!” And Kronar replies: “Affix the bow of shame. Cast her into the wolf pit.” The strip has a continuation but the point being is that I get a wonderful Kronar feeling thanks to the bloodline theme :D

If anyone still cares after reading my bit, I would like to give thanks to Finvara and Oberyn, for making good ideas I like if not necessarily agree upon, and also Lycander, majugi and vaniver for trying to make some sense of this thread. Sorry if I left anyone out.

That Kronar thing is pretty funny. Also you missed me. I started this mess! ;)

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@Aishavin: I'd never judge anyone for reading Oglaf. It's pretty damn funny and it's even recommended by XKCD.

I wonder if Brad's read any of it. The overall story is pretty epic and some of that quirky humorous style might translate well into minor story bits in a game like MC. Not all the adult jokes and explicit drawings specifically of course, but I do get sort of a Game of Thrones vibe from reading it, only a lot more silly in a good way.

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Well, then :) Thank you SurplusGamer får starting this mess ;)

And I agree with you flesk that some oglaf might/should make it into MC...

"Oh Brad? Have you seen this nice comic called Oglaf?"

Anyways, I can live with the grounded fantasy-world thing, but still, having your last hero of the line walk away and getting another to take his/her/their place wouldn't be to bad now would it?

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After reading most of this thread, maybe this game shouldn't even be made using people - maybe it should be using robots or aliens or something. (kidding)

Nevertheless, maybe kids can be delivered by storks, wizards, or dragons - something outside the norm, especially if its going to go outside the norms of how kids arrived back in the time of kings and castles (i.e. before test-tube babies).

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Nevertheless, maybe kids can be delivered by storks, wizards, or dragons - something outside the norm, especially if its going to go outside the norms of how kids arrived back in the time of kings and castles (i.e. before test-tube babies).

I'd be fine with this. I was just thinking that I'd be okay with same sex houses being able to "sire" and rear offspring just as opposite sex houses do. Definitely makes it balanced that way to just do everything equally.

+1 for the stork baby delivery program.

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I'm of two minds on the matter.

On the one side, being unable to join two bloodlines you want to join due to gender incompatibilities is potentially an interesting problem strategically. On the other hand, it could be not fun and we'd be better off with some handwavy 'babies come from magic/storks/whatever' explanation to let you merge whatever bloodlines that you want.

However, you already have an issue where your heroes who are retired to their castles to breed are being charged by their Heroic Duty to their Liege and Nation to bear the next generation of Heroes. Thus, it would make sense for these pairing to only exist between men and women, so that goal can be reasonably attained. The thing to bear in mind, is that since the primary reason for these couplings are the production of offspring, love and the characters sexual preferences need not be the primary factor in the coupling. History and Fantasy both are filled with loveless marriages forged out of necessity and duty, particularly among the noble classes.

There is a fine balance between making the bloodlines system, and the merging of bloodlines simple and elegant, and making it a free-for-all micromanaging your heroes copulations, and for that reason I lean toward a single coupling that a hero can be involved in that produces heroic offspring, because it keeps more value to the strategic nature of the decision, and it's for simplicity's sake, and for the potential for being unable to merge bloodlines due to biological incompatibility to that task that I lean toward same sex couplings being unable to produce offspring (though the nature/nuture question is still hugely interesting in this case).

I guess the real question is how vital to the strategic nature of the game is bloodlines that there is value in the breeding limitations?

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I'm of two minds on the matter.

On the one side, being unable to join two bloodlines you want to join due to gender incompatibilities is potentially an interesting problem strategically. On the other hand, it could be not fun and we'd be better off with some handwavy 'babies come from magic/storks/whatever' explanation to let you merge whatever bloodlines that you want.

However, you already have an issue where your heroes who are retired to their castles to breed are being charged by their Heroic Duty to their Liege and Nation to bear the next generation of Heroes. Thus, it would make sense for these pairing to only exist between men and women, so that goal can be reasonably attained. The thing to bear in mind, is that since the primary reason for these couplings are the production of offspring, love and the characters sexual preferences need not be the primary factor in the coupling. History and Fantasy both are filled with loveless marriages forged out of necessity and duty, particularly among the noble classes.

There is a fine balance between making the bloodlines system, and the merging of bloodlines simple and elegant, and making it a free-for-all micromanaging your heroes copulations, and for that reason I lean toward a single coupling that a hero can be involved in that produces heroic offspring, because it keeps more value to the strategic nature of the decision, and it's for simplicity's sake, and for the potential for being unable to merge bloodlines due to biological incompatibility to that task that I lean toward same sex couplings being unable to produce offspring (though the nature/nuture question is still hugely interesting in this case).

I guess the real question is how vital to the strategic nature of the game is bloodlines that there is value in the breeding limitations?

Mm. I suspect that these are questions that are only going to be answered through design iteration.

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Depending on how they design the game with "genetical heritage", they could take a gander at CK2 for a great feature, namely guardians, people who educate the young until they reach maturity and start ruling on their own. Gay people might not be all that great at reproducing, but if you get to assign guardians to help foster your children then even though homosexuals aren't able to reproduce themselves they will still have a role to play in the upbringing of future heroes, even though it might not be as influential as the act of conception. But why should it? If you want your sexuality represented it should at least be true to what it is.

I haven't read what kind of systems they are using for developing characters, but I figure it could be something like attributes, (STR, DEX, INT etc.) inheritable traits (Dwarf, Ginger, Bulky or stuff like that) and traits that you can get from training. Like (Proficient Swordfighter, Master Blocker, Skilled Basher), and possibly skills/traits you only get by surviving combat. (Survivor, Pincushion, Skullcleaver, Bloodrage, Battlefrenzy)

Also, homosexual males should totally have a bonus to fighting with polearms.

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I guess the social experiment fell flat from the look of sales sadly. You cannot crowdsource based on an idea, expound on that idea, have no stretch goals, then throw it all out the window on a whim. You can say well I think we can add this feature in a cool way but I don't know these devs this is the first double fine game that made me go 'Awesome I want some of this'. If you are going to say we won't have stretch goals instead we have awesome surprises then your announcements should make people go 'OMG wow thats awesome', not 'WTF how does that even fit in this game'. The could have done so much more with an extra million in sales and cool features for everyone and instead....ah well what can you do. Enjoy your game.

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I guess the social experiment fell flat from the look of sales sadly.

*Looks at $1,147,419 pledged of $725,000 goal*

*Peers at*

Yeah, no, I'm going to guess if a million dollars in pledges was something laying thick on the ground for anyone, you'd be posting from the floating laptop in your 2nd story pool and in a slightly better mood.

These are results, and damned good ones.

Some of us pledged to the idea of another Doublefine game. Some of us pledged because we knew Brad's work. Some of us pledged because we wanted to argue about same-sex couples in a lineage-focused videogame.

A lot of pledges have happened, and this is a very successful campaign.

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I guess the social experiment fell flat from the look of sales sadly.

I wholeheartedly disagree.

Of the video games projects that have broken $1,000,000 in funding, this is the only one that is a completely new IP, that doesn't have a 'rockstar' name like Tim's directly associated with it. That's a huge success for a relatively new game designer like Brad, and while the fact that it's Double Fine went a long way to help with that, it's still an amazing achievement.

I think that most Kickstarter campaigns get lost in the artificial excitement around stretch goals and the like, and those goals tend to actually cost more than the probably brought in in the first place (just look at Steve Jackson's comments regarding the OGRE kickstarter - http://www.sjgames.com/general/stakeholders/report13.html ). In the first episode of the DFA Backers Documentary, it's stated that physical rewards were going to suck up at least half a million of the raised money, essentially slashing the games budget by 1/6th before production even began.

Could Massive Chalice raise more by driving up expectations with stretch goals? Possibly. But I sincerely doubt it would have drawn in new backers, it most likely would have just bled money out of existing ones. You know, those of use who loved the premise, believe in the Studio, and think it was worth our money. I applaud them for this experiment, and I think Kickstarter would be a healthier place if it wasn't for the manipulative techniques that include stretch goals.

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Edit: Reading Brad's comments it sounds like they are neither shoving it down our throats nor being exclusive to people who would like to see this as a feature. I don't see why this is an issue. Moving along to more important things. =p

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Heredity are the backbone of games currently on the market like Crusader Kings II and Rogue Legacy which both feature gay characters. I have no problem with Doublefine having this in the game and I have full confidence that the team could make it work if they felt strongly about it.

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I guess the social experiment fell flat from the look of sales sadly.

*Looks at $1,147,419 pledged of $725,000 goal*

*Peers at*

Yeah, no, I'm going to guess if a million dollars in pledges was something laying thick on the ground for anyone, you'd be posting from the floating laptop in your 2nd story pool and in a slightly better mood.

These are results, and damned good ones.

Some of us pledged to the idea of another Doublefine game. Some of us pledged because we knew Brad's work. Some of us pledged because we wanted to argue about same-sex couples in a lineage-focused videogame.

A lot of pledges have happened, and this is a very successful campaign.

Numbers don't lie biased people do. 75% of the current funding happened prior to the news stories. After which point in time the next 17 days had 25-50% sales of the worst day prior. Most games when featured on 100+ gaming sites in the span of 2 days get a immense boost of sales. This lead to a massive dry spell. Get real.

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Numbers don't lie biased people do. 75% of the current funding happened prior to the news stories. After which point in time the next 17 days had 25-50% sales of the worst day prior. Most games when featured on 100+ gaming sites in the span of 2 days get a immense boost of sales. This lead to a massive dry spell. Get real.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems to be the theme with popular Kickstarter games. Huge backing on day 1, big pause in the middle, then huge push at the end.

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Here's a graph for Massive Chalice, and here's a graph for Double Fine Adventure. See how they look very similar? Most games on Kickstarter follow a similar funding pattern, with most of the momentum only being in the first few and last few days, with very slow growth in the time in-between. DFA also got most of its total funding in the first few days. Was that a failure as well?

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Numbers don't lie biased people do. 75% of the current funding happened prior to the news stories. After which point in time the next 17 days had 25-50% sales of the worst day prior. Most games when featured on 100+ gaming sites in the span of 2 days get a immense boost of sales. This lead to a massive dry spell. Get real.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems to be the theme with popular Kickstarter games. Huge backing on day 1, big pause in the middle, then huge push at the end.

You can't logic someone out of something they didn't logic themselves into.

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Even so, just in case anyone is in any doubt about whether Darken is talking nonsense:

RPS.PNG

The RPS point is where the same sex couples in Massive Chalice was published on Rock Paper Shotgun. As you can see, things were in decline long before this, much in the same manner as most other campaigns, with the exception of a particularly strong day on June 4th because that's the day they hit the goal, which is often big day for pledges because people are trying to push it over the top. After the goal is hit, it's usual to see a sharp decline in pledges, but actually the pledge level if anything went UP slightly the day after the RPS article was published.

Then there was a lull which could be associated with the big news in the press being the run-up to E3 and then E3 itself, but things pick up towards the end of E3 at which point the pledges have been at a very healthy point, and now we're experiencing the end-of-campaign bump which nearly always happens.

There's absolutely no evidence that this campaign was harmed by Double Fine's response to this thread, the press reporting about it, or anything else. They didn't experience the bigger bumps that DFA did, but sorry Darken, that's probably not to do with teh gay.

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Even so, just in case anyone is in any doubt about whether Darken is talking nonsense:

RPS.PNG

The RPS point is where the same sex couples in Massive Chalice was published on Rock Paper Shotgun. As you can see, things were in decline long before this, much in the same manner as most other campaigns, with the exception of a particularly strong day on June 4th because that's the day they hit the goal, which is often big day for pledges because people are trying to push it over the top. After the goal is hit, it's usual to see a sharp decline in pledges, but actually the pledge level if anything went UP slightly the day after the RPS article was published.

Then there was a lull which could be associated with the big news in the press being the run-up to E3 and then E3 itself, but things pick up towards the end of E3 at which point the pledges have been at a very healthy point, and now we're experiencing the end-of-campaign bump which nearly always happens.

There's absolutely no evidence that this campaign was harmed by Double Fine's response to this thread, the press reporting about it, or anything else. They didn't experience the bigger bumps that DFA did, but sorry Darken, that's probably not to do with teh gay.

Well, you could argue that the publicity brought by the announcement did little to nothing for the sales of the game as well, as the numbers certainly don't show any significant increase as a result of that announcement, so the people who genuinely care about this feature may be a vocal minority. /devilsadvocate

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Well, you could argue that the publicity brought by the announcement did little to nothing for the sales of the game as well, as the numbers certainly don't show any significant increase as a result of that announcement, so the people who genuinely care about this feature may be a vocal minority. /devilsadvocate

To answer the devil's advocate:

1) There was no 'announcement'. Brad was directly asked in an RPS interview about same sex couples, and he answered, citing some of the stuff that had been on this thread. It wasn't a grab for publicity, or an attempt to increase backing. It was the sites themselves that turned it into a 'story'.

2) I don't think anyone is arguing for same sex couples as a feature in and of itself. The 'features' that Brad is excited about are nature/nurture mechanics and the idea that heroes can be used for research as well as procreation. They're what he always talks about when people ask about same sex couples. Those features have nothing intrinsically to do with same sex couples - however, they are compatible with a world where same sex couples might be allowed. From what I've read around the threads and where it's being discussed elsewhere, people do 'genuinely care' about cool features like hero research and nature/nurture raising of heroes - and so those same people aren't being put out any by having a game where same sex couples can be a part of those aspects of the game.

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Well, you could argue that the publicity brought by the announcement did little to nothing for the sales of the game as well, as the numbers certainly don't show any significant increase as a result of that announcement, so the people who genuinely care about this feature may be a vocal minority. /devilsadvocate

To answer the devil's advocate:

1) There was no 'announcement'. Brad was directly asked in an RPS interview about same sex couples, and he answered, citing some of the stuff that had been on this thread. It wasn't a grab for publicity, or an attempt to increase backing. It was the sites themselves that turned it into a 'story'.

2) I don't think anyone is arguing for same sex couples as a feature in and of itself. The 'features' that Brad is excited about are nature/nurture mechanics and the idea that heroes can be used for research as well as procreation. They're what he always talks about when people ask about same sex couples. Those features have nothing intrinsically to do with same sex couples - however, they are compatible with a world where same sex couples might be allowed. From what I've read around the threads and where it's being discussed elsewhere, people do 'genuinely care' about cool features like hero research and nature/nurture raising of heroes - and so those same people aren't being put out any by having a game where same sex couples can be a part of those aspects of the game.

1) Whatever you want to call Brad's post, it got publicity. Said publicity did not result in a significant increase in backers as demonstrated by the numbers.

2) My argument is that just as there is no evidence that a significant number of people are being put off by the inclusion same sex couples, there is equally no evidence that a significant number of people are interested by the inclusion. You are confusing the issue with weather or not I should actually call it a feature. I would personally call any aspect of any game mechanic a "feature," but if you want to call it an aspect of another game mechanic, that is fine too and for all I know is more technically accurate as I don't know how most developers technically define a feature, unless it is Blizzard in which case it is essentially the exact definition I used. Feature working as intended.

Personally, I agree that this will likely make the feature more robust. The more walks of life your heroes can walk down, the better this will turn out, IMO.

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I understood what you meant, I just am not sure what the point is - I don't think anyone was arguing that it -did- increase backers. But Darken is arguing it decreased backers. So you're sort of playing devil's advocate to a point that nobody made, I guess is my point :)

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I understood what you meant, I just am not sure what the point is - I don't think anyone was arguing that it -did- increase backers. But Darken is arguing it decreased backers. So you're sort of playing devil's advocate to a point that nobody made, I guess is my point :)
I think I'm just pointing out the obvious that while Darken may be "talking nonsense," it is not to be assumed that the opposite of what he said is factual either. It appears that the publicity on a major site was essentially a non-factor toward the number of backers.

I guess the question to ask is if a mention on RPS usually significantly helps the number of backers for Kickstarter projects. While most Kickstarters do follow the same pattern, I was also under the impression that mentions on major game news sites usually boosts sales of Kickstarters, but maybe that trend has changed or I was overestimating it in the first place. I just seem to remember a huge boost when Kotaku mentioned the first DFA. (Edit: Or am I thinking about Leisure Suit Larry, which was doing "meh" until it got a mention somewhere in it's last days... I think.)

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If you're looking at other campaigns then at least on a first view you could have expected a stronger finish but on a second view it's not this surprising.

From the posts i read that ongoing gender talk annoyed a number of people (here, on other kickstarter campaigns and forums) but i have no idea how this transforms into real numbers. It was an interesting discussion in the beginning but at some point it was less relevant for the game and drifted away into a discussion for a few vocal people about their own stuff. Sometimes you can say something which is true and works with just a few words and sometimes you can go on and on without getting to the core and without adding something meaningful.

The "let's make a game but we have no idea what it will be"-approach. This is good and bad at the same time. Good, because you can make up your mind together with the community and collect tons of ideas (maybe even too much) and then afterwards decide what kind of game you want to make and can afford as well.

Bad, because beside of throwing in a few snippets it doesn't make a lot of sense to make more thoughtful suggestions because either they get lost between all the other suggestions or the noise of talk, plus the direction isn't cear at all. So you might just waste time for nothing and then at some point you could have designd a game on your own, but without getting payed for it.

I do like the raw appeal of kickstarters without any stretch goals but i'm also aware that i do not represent the majority with this. Stretch goals can run a campaign. There exist reasonable stretch goals you can add to most projects which are more detached from a game design (none of them appeared here) and there are those which rely on the game design, which wasn't in place, and so these stretch goals didn't make sense, less motivation, less money. The campaign offers dreams but lacks the concrete.

In context with this it also didn't help that the project was funded this quick, à la "Ah, okay it's done already, nothing new to see here too (no stretch goals or meat which shape the game more detailed), let's move on."

What i liked about the campaign was that it felt like Brad's baby, without Tim lurking around in the background. Brad was in charge and not just the apprentice and i think they listened to the feedback for a few times as well (f.e. box option for under $100) as the updates were entertaining (great art for a couple of times and some fun videos as well).

What i think that i don't like (at least yet) is this sigil/motto stuff, it feels strange to me and i hope you can play the game without getting tons of weirds logos and mottos which might feel displaced.

It would be interesting to know if they're happy with the funding as it is. Was it mainly to get the initial funing, plus some dollars on top for safety reasons and adding some more or did they more define a low goal for getting funded at all but were hoping to triple that in order to really make what they had in mind (this nebulous idea)?

I'll end this with hoping for Bards, Katanas, Monsters, keep it simple, reasonable and cool. Btw. did you know that demons weren't bad by definition in the beginning? Doing some quick research on the web, it seems to be another thing which got redefined by certain religions for the bad. Oh, do ghost bloodlines exist as well? Okay, i stop...

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I understood what you meant, I just am not sure what the point is - I don't think anyone was arguing that it -did- increase backers. But Darken is arguing it decreased backers. So you're sort of playing devil's advocate to a point that nobody made, I guess is my point :)
I think I'm just pointing out the obvious that while Darken may be "talking nonsense," it is not to be assumed that the opposite of what he said is factual either. It appears that the publicity on a major site was essentially a non-factor toward the number of backers.

I guess the question to ask is if a mention on RPS usually significantly helps the number of backers for Kickstarter projects. While most Kickstarters do follow the same pattern, I was also under the impression that mentions on major game news sites usually boosts sales of Kickstarters, but maybe that trend has changed or I was overestimating it in the first place. I just remember a huge boost when Kotaku mentioned the first DFA.

I think RPS had mentioned the Kickstarter at least a couple of times before this particular article, so any regular readers would have found out about it previously. But also, DFA isn't a good comparison because back then, over a year ago, video Kickstarters in general weren't being reported as much on websites, so the impact was so much bigger. Now RPS have a weekly Kickstarter summary article that mentions several projects at once.

Nowadays the news gets around quicker, and more people people know kickstarters are a 'thing', so the individual impacts of particular articles are just a lot less. Here's some better comparisons:

http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/redthread/dreamfall-chapters-the-longest-journey/#chart-daily

This one is extremely similar: very strong start, then bump followed by steady decline after hitting the goal, then end of funding spikes. No significant spikes apparent in the data for other reasons.

http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/#chart-daily

60 days, but similar amount of money, and very similar looking funding curve until the veeery end when it suddenly jumped massively. that's probably because it nearly missed its goal, so it got the end-of-funding bump and the close-to-goal bump at the same time.

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