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Listened to the Brian Min interview and came up with a few ideas for the music. Wrote a battle music demo, here's the link: http://www.maxcastillo.com/music/Massive_Chalice.mp3 (as of the time of this post the website layout isn't up but it should be up by tomorrow)

So the track starts with a 'human' theme with the usual heroic bravado and as Brian mentioned with lots of brass and percussion, and about halfway through it switches to the demon music. What I've done for the demons is I used "tortured" instruments; instruments played in unorthodox ways, abused instruments, etc. You'll hear some instruments being detuned live as well. I decided to keep the same tempo or a similar "rhythm" throughout the cue in order to maintain the flow of battle. The idea is that the music could be cut up into smaller bits allowing fluid transition from one faction's music to another's. So for example if you were to be playing as the humans, upon finishing your turn the music would play a short transition and then begin playing the demons' music.

So what do you think, guys? Let's have some feedback. :)

The problem is making sure the track is appropriate at all times, which is why the best thing would be to break the song down to different components or overlapping tracks or melodies that can transition between themselves. Having epic fanfare when your in a bad spot isn't appropriate, but there aren't a lot of games that do what I'm asking, so it might be a bit unfair. I can easily see this being played as reinforcements arrive on the battlefield... then enemy reinforcements ... god dammit!

Could you make variations of the song depict the flow of a fight? tense stalemate, rallying fanfare (which you have), heroes not yet seen and sneaking around, bad situation (also covered) and lot's of casualties, and finally hopelessness (loss) and actual victory.

I've always thought that for a single fight you would require as much work as potentially an entire movie to cover all the possibilities. You can only capture so many nuances, though, since being specific means risking not hitting the right tone.

Speaking of hitting the right notes: well done! I hope you share more.

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The problem is making sure the track is appropriate at all times, which is why the best thing would be to break the song down to different components or overlapping tracks or melodies that can transition between themselves. Having epic fanfare when your in a bad spot isn't appropriate, but there aren't a lot of games that do what I'm asking, so it might be a bit unfair. I can easily see this being played as reinforcements arrive on the battlefield... then enemy reinforcements ... god dammit!

Could you make variations of the song depict the flow of a fight? tense stalemate, rallying fanfare (which you have), heroes not yet seen and sneaking around, bad situation (also covered) and lot's of casualties, and finally hopelessness (loss) and actual victory.

I've always thought that for a single fight you would require as much work as potentially an entire movie to cover all the possibilities. You can only capture so many nuances, though, since being specific means risking not hitting the right tone.

Speaking of hitting the right notes: well done! I hope you share more.

Thanks, everyone. Nazareadain, that's a really good idea, and I think it's totally doable. I'd like to contact Brian Min but can't seem to find his email. Can anyone help me out?

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The problem is making sure the track is appropriate at all times, which is why the best thing would be to break the song down to different components or overlapping tracks or melodies that can transition between themselves. Having epic fanfare when your in a bad spot isn't appropriate, but there aren't a lot of games that do what I'm asking, so it might be a bit unfair. I can easily see this being played as reinforcements arrive on the battlefield... then enemy reinforcements ... god dammit!

Could you make variations of the song depict the flow of a fight? tense stalemate, rallying fanfare (which you have), heroes not yet seen and sneaking around, bad situation (also covered) and lot's of casualties, and finally hopelessness (loss) and actual victory.

I've always thought that for a single fight you would require as much work as potentially an entire movie to cover all the possibilities. You can only capture so many nuances, though, since being specific means risking not hitting the right tone.

Speaking of hitting the right notes: well done! I hope you share more.

Thanks, everyone. Nazareadain, that's a really good idea, and I think it's totally doable. I'd like to contact Brian Min but can't seem to find his email. Can anyone help me out?

I don't think his work email is public. Same thing with Brad and John. I think they would prefer for the thousands of people with thoughts and ideas to just post stuff here in the forum for them to come read rather than sending 100,000 emails to their work inbox. I know that would drive ME crazy.

However, Brian Min does have a twitter account, if that works: @sonicrevo

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I don't have a Twitter right now. Maybe someone else could politely direct him to this thread, if you liked what you've heard of course. ;)

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Listened to the Brian Min interview and came up with a few ideas for the music. Wrote a battle music demo, here's the link: http://www.maxcastillo.com/music/Massive_Chalice.mp3 (as of the time of this post the website layout isn't up but it should be up by tomorrow)

So the track starts with a 'human' theme with the usual heroic bravado and as the developers mentioned with lots of brass and percussion, and about halfway through it switches to the demon music. What I've done for the demons is I used "tortured" instruments; instruments played in unorthodox ways, abused instruments, etc. You'll hear some instruments being detuned live as well. I decided to keep the same tempo or a similar "rhythm" throughout the cue in order to maintain the flow of battle. The idea is that the music could be cut up into smaller bits allowing fluid transition from one faction's music to another's. So for example if you were to be playing as the humans, upon finishing your turn the music would play a short transition and then begin playing the demons' music.

So what do you think, guys? Let's have some feedback. :)

This is incredibly awesome. I loved the drums and I loved the 'demonic' side - pretty much perfect. The instrumental growl as you entered the demon half was spectacular.

I thought the heroic side was really fantastic too but perhaps a little bit generic, either some more esoteric or exotic influence or some aspect that is more melancholic or elegiac to be close to my ideal but still amazing that you could produce something like that yourself.

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I'd like to throw in a mention for something like Bellowhead. They do English Folk but at a high tempo influenced by various world music artists including Balkan.

Here's an instrumental piece called Dragon's Teeth.:

It's at 2:45 here, there's another song they perform first that probably isn't as in tone for Massive Chalice.

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Sent an email to jobs@doublefine.com, maybe that'll get their attention, lol.

If you're just trying to get them to look at the thread and check out your sample, that's probably not the best way to do it. With an operation as big as Double Fine's and a lot of communication happening through a lot of different channels, they likely want to keep information going to the right channels.

I mean, imagine trying to get a message to the shipping/receiving clerk at a local Wal-Mart by writing him a note on a job application and turning it in to the information desk. The only way he's going to get the message is if

1) The person in HR doesn't get slightly annoyed at having his/her time wasted and inbox cluttered

2) The same person actually reads/cares about the message

3) The same person decides it is worth their time to quit doing their job and physically walk all the way across the building to personally tell someone in another department about the fake submission they just received with a note on it.

4) The same person doesn't care about setting a precedent that if you write messages on applications and turn them into HR that HR will deliver them for you.

Maybe DF is laid back enough that they wouldn't care and they'd actually do it! But most offices would probably just delete it or ignore it or send you a reminder that there is a designated place for sharing ideas/suggestions.

Perhaps I'm just a little cynical from having worked in an office and having had to deal with emails like that, but I think waiting for Brian Min to come to you or trying to send him a shout in a more direct way would be much more accepted/appreciated than sending an email to the wrong inbox in an attempt to get a completely unrelated person to be a messenger for you. Especially if you're just trying to tell him, "Look at my post."

I think he'll see it. Might not be right away, and he may not compose a reply, but I think he'll see it just fine.

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If the budget includes hiring some voice talent for the OST, I would put in a vote for Ashley Barrett, who did the vocals for the Bastion soundtrack, anyone who hasn't heard it should give it a go.

They also did a cool live version in the Supergiant Games' studio:

(Also, first post :), have enjoyed the open development style DF have done for DFA and AF and look forward to it continuing through MASSIVE CHALICE's development.)

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:

They could contract Ben Prunty for the music.

They could contract Ben Prunty for the music.

They could contract Ben Prunty for the music.

:

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This is pretty in-line with what people have been suggesting, but my mind goes to the Witcher series soundtrack. Admittedly, I don't consider any of the pieces especially memorable, but the soundtrack seemed great for setting tone. It had its folksy piece, with more string-type instruments and what-not, and also had bombastic battle musics, and so on.

Brad mentioned the direction he intends to take concerning humor in, um, some video. I can easily imagine some beefy warrior dude talking with awe about a MASSIVE CHALICE to the tune of some brass and drums, but it'd be really cool to see whoever does the music do something with regards to the serious-about-nonsensical-matters comedic direction.

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Y'all got an itty-bitty budget so not much can be allocated for music. But rejoice! For programmed drums sound surprisingly good nowadays.

You guys are metal heads; feudal ages were a metal time; why not have your composer make a metal soundtrack? It has been proven to work in a fantasy setting before

and nothing says, “battle theme” like something moshable. Here’re some references for how to score ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_nmJgNcems

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The more eclectic the influences, the more unique the result!

Some flavors that spring to mind:

eBrTXWXj4kY

GxMW_Hj7ApA

Also, vedic chants. I was listening to this kind of stuff for hours while playing skyrim once, it seemed to work surprisingly beautifully.

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I've been enjoying a lot of the throat-singing stuff in this thread. Definitely seems like it has potential in a game like this.

Every time I hear Brad/John/Other talk about the music in Massive Chalice, I can't help but remember Myth: The Fallen Lords, and old PC game that did just about everything right in terms of sound, story and atmosphere. But the music was amazing, particularly for the time of release (1997). It has this deep, forboding cello, with elements of the dissonance that Brad et al. were talking about during the sound chat. It's very much a conventional approach, but you could do a lot worse than to imitate it.

Man I love the Myth series! I don't think I ever realized how much the cello added to that game. :D!

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That's pretty cool. I did a Celtic-inspired sample with bagpipes and male choir a while go myself: https://www.box.com/s/cummrsnkjipxr5r3ionq

Sent an email to jobs@doublefine.com, maybe that'll get their attention, lol.

Wow I am so behind on this stuff! Thanks for posting these samples, Max! I really liked the first one that you did that had the detuned and tortured instruments. Super cool and inspirational!

I've sent the links for both of your sketches over to Brian Min and I'll poke him to post in here. Thanks again! :D!

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Wow I am so behind on this stuff! Thanks for posting these samples, Max! I really liked the first one that you did that had the detuned and tortured instruments. Super cool and inspirational!

I've sent the links for both of your sketches over to Brian Min and I'll poke him to post in here. Thanks again! :D!

I got excited when I read this post and then x100 times more excited when I saw that it was posted by Brad Muir. :D

I'm really glad you liked it, thanks for taking the time to listen.

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I've been enjoying a lot of the throat-singing stuff in this thread. Definitely seems like it has potential in a game like this.

Every time I hear Brad/John/Other talk about the music in Massive Chalice, I can't help but remember Myth: The Fallen Lords, and old PC game that did just about everything right in terms of sound, story and atmosphere. But the music was amazing, particularly for the time of release (1997). It has this deep, forboding cello, with elements of the dissonance that Brad et al. were talking about during the sound chat. It's very much a conventional approach, but you could do a lot worse than to imitate it.

Man I love the Myth series! I don't think I ever realized how much the cello added to that game. :D!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ho1LkGGp4uc

The cello is a lot stronger of an instrument than I thought till recently.

I just love how he keeps adding the layers on that song and sounds absolutely complete.

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So, uh, any news from Brian? Do you guys perhaps want me to write some more samples? I won't charge for anything that doesn't make it into the game. Are you at all open to the idea of working with a composer you're not familiar with?

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I hope he does reply. I assume they're waiting to see what their other composers will come up with. For now here's some slower music that I wrote with an RPG game in mind, it's just a sketch so far but maybe something like this could work for Massive Chalice as well. Feedback always welcome. :D

https://app.box.com/s/0j76uco2yg83nuxbs2yi

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Hey you guys!

I've been a little tied up with wrapping up another project in the studio but this is incredible! You guys are so thoughtful and this discussion tells me how awesome our backers are!!!

I will definitely catch up on this more in detail and I plan to respond individually to some of you. Brad, John, and I recently had an amazing "high" level discussion about how Massive Chalice's game loop "could" be like. This informs me as an audio director about how audio can best serve gameplay. In film, or linear medium, everything serves the story. (or at least good ones do. :) In games, everything serves gameplay.

While it's very exciting to talk about music, we need to remember that music is a quarter slice of the pie. There's sound design, there is voice (in all forms, either a narrator, grunts, crowd noises, etc.), of course music, and finally Integration. Integration is much like "mixing" in film. For example, it doesn't matter how amazing a piece of music is, if it's too loud, comes in at the wrong place, or repetitive (a very common problem in game audio) the whole thing can fall apart.

I want to let you guys know that I am committed to bringing you guys the best audio integration experience possible with the resources that Massive Chalice has been given. Don't get me wrong, I'm right there with you guys and I want to talk ALL sorts of ideas for music, whether it's Celtic, Percussion, Brass, Metal, etc! That's the stuff that gets me up in the morning!

Right now, I'm trying to really immerse myself with the team about the "pacing" of Massive Chalice. For me, that always helps me set the tone for how "big" and "fast" to go. Secondly, I'm reading and LISTENING to all your feedback. I just need a bit of time to catch up! :D Also, I'm talking to a lot of my colleagues, my team, and game composers I respect to get their thoughts on it.

Thanks you guys! I'll post more often!

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I hope he does reply. I assume they're waiting to see what their other composers will come up with. For now here's some slower music that I wrote with an RPG game in mind, it's just a sketch so far but maybe something like this could work for Massive Chalice as well. Feedback always welcome. :D

https://app.box.com/s/0j76uco2yg83nuxbs2yi

Hey Max!

Thanks so much for your post and your initiative! I will definitely take a listen. It is very very exciting to start talking about what will define the sonicscape for Massive Chalice!!!

As I mentioned in my earlier post, I've always thought that great game audio packages consists of not just great musical content, but the WAY in which it was integrated. For example, games like Journey or Bioshock Infinite score's could easily stand on its own as a linear piece of music. But what's truly outstanding is how it works within the game, how it responds, how it stops playing, how it informs the player. And they way other sonic pieces work together. Music, Voice, Sound Design are all working together to bring a rich experience that informs and supports gameplay.

This means making great musical integration decisions and making sure that the tech plumbing exists to support those decisions. So while it's very very exciting to talk about music "content" for Massive Chalice, it's equally important to talk about "how" the music will "fit" and "flow" in Massive Chalice. What we don't want is an expensive piece of music that induces ear fatigue and be repetitive for a game that's very mechanics driven.

But again, it's really amazing to see your creative expression, skill level, and thoughtfulness of our backers! :D

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Again,

Thanks you guys and I apologize for the slow response! You guys are so thoughtful! When the time comes, I will be sure to post all things regarding our music, the music system, and how it will help serve the core gameloop!

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Hey hey! Brian stopped by! And he didn't skimp on posting either. Thanks for coming to visit Brian, and you make some really good points. It's a music thread, so we've kinda been focusing on music here, but other sounds and integration are good to think about.

I'm not sure the backers could really brainstorm integration, since we're not really there to see what's going on every day, but now that we are learning more about the demon prototypes and continue to learn more about the world, the narrative, and the systems, it might be interesting to start a sound effects thread! What sound would the demonic embodiment of fading memories make? There's a good challenge.

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A Musical idea for your consideration; With the hero classes shaping together as they are, each of their primary weapons represents a different form of instrument that could be used. The Vanguard's tuning fork/whistle sword is easy enough, but think also of the CaberJack using hollowed logs for percussion, The Arbelist's strings used for a bass string instrument, and the Alchemist using bottles as a wind instrument.

This kind of approach would offer a variety of instruments and possible sounds while keeping the music seemingly "in-world" as if crafted by the heroes and their families.

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