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..something droning and instrumental like EARTH would be totally awesome for Massive Chalice.

However, I'm not so sure Earth/Dylan Carlson would do a soundtrack for something like this.

It would still serve as pretty great inspiration. RPG/adventures have always had a certain

common nerve with western/roadtrip related stuff with me anyway.. Travelling/exploring new frontiers.

But these two albums are worth checkin out;

(btw coverart is just damn perfect!)

Angels of Darkness, Demons of Light I (2011)

Angels_cover_resize.jpg

Angels of Darkness, Demons of Light II (2012)

Angels_of_Darkness,_Demons_of_Light_II.jpg

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The cover art looks great. I don't think I could stand listening to their music though for long periods of time. I'd probably turn it off or way down in the settings. Ha. But I'm sure they'll find some nice instrumental music.

Smiles

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The cover art looks great. I don't think I could stand listening to their music though for long periods of time. I'd probably turn it off or way down in the settings. Ha. But I'm sure they'll find some nice instrumental music.

Smiles

..absolutely. needs more variation. but I think droning elements would be interesting.

The perfect match would be more metal, hoarse, and hornplaying like WARDRUNA! ;^)

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If Massive Chalice really wants to go in a different direction; check out the Budos Band.

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I thought I might add some of my thoughts for musical inspiration. The direction I am coming from is songs that might be written in-game by the bards to tell the history of the war and to memorialize heroes past.

One of the first songs I thought of in relation to this project was The Minstrel Boy written by Thomas Moore, preformed here by The Clancy Brothers:

I think that it gives a sort of, early-game, Proudly defiant in the face of the demon hordes, send your sons and daughter into the glory of battle feeling.

The second song is a remix from Final Fantasy 9 called The Rose General by katethegreat19

This song has a more defined somber, later-game feeling; A war that has raged on for as long as anyone has remembered as soldiers try to pay tribute to the sacrifices of their elders. Similar, perhaps to a song to play while viewing the fallen heroes and their bloodlines?

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After having suffered dire losses, you return to the overmap to consider your next decisions, and this plays.

I think variety is important, but there could also be slight variations to the same song, which I think there should be during a battle theme for example,

going between different characters in different states on the battlefield, should spur different versions of the song, more drums when the character is in the thick of enemies, more quiet if the character is out of sight or undetected, panicky if low on health etc.

The pace, flow, and beat of the fight needs to be considered, and if it's anything like fire emblem, tactics, disgaea and the like, then it's likely to be very slow, but it doesn't have to feel that slow.

The example that I'm using is something that I love, the pace is deliberately slow, but the beat puts me in a state of focus and promotes me to keep pace without feeling like it's rushing me.

The song itself is not befitting of a medieval strategy game, but the qualities I've mentioned are elements I think are important to deciding a "battle theme".

Having it unnecessarily bombastic when practically nothing is happening throws me off. Having the beat be too fast or too slow does the same.

Having a base (or even bass) that fits the pace can allow it to be built upon according to the context and situation. Having it simple and change to fit the situations is more important than having a song that gets the blood pumping and ready for war. Since you're likely to try and focus, it shouldn't be intrusive either.

A song that gives the feeling that something bad is approaching.

constant build-up. In my opinion perfect if you want to feel like a bad-ass during the preparation phase.

completely god damn over the top. Probably won't ever feel appropriate, but hey.

If anything, I'll end with this:

Don't just have a single battle theme:

A fight can go every which way and the music should befit that - you need music to represent every possible emotion on that front, whether it's panic on about to lose a character, despair toward being about to lose the whole fight, reinvigorated for having just turned the fight, calmly preparing for the next devastating blow, whittling down the enemies through attrition, or just plain beating the shit out of the enemy.

Otherwise you might as well play this:

which don't get me wrong, I'm all for, but it won't be any more appropriate.

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Having just listened to the interview with Brian Min about how they want to approach audio and have a sort of off balance feel to it. I think they should look into some instruments that give off a different tone. Perhaps something like a shamisen. bagpipes, an accordion, or perhaps a didgeridoo will help give that feel that they're searching for.

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Another wonderful point of inspiration to draw from is Gustav Holst's "The Planets".

Mars, The Bringer of War has been used to inspire many pieces (John Williams has borrowed liberally from it), and it sounds like this:

It's also been altered and used in other games, such as PuppyGames' Revenge of the Titans:

Jupiter is another one of my favorites from that suite. I don't know that they should use Holst's work as it stands, but maybe it can help to place the audio "fenceposts," like what they were talking about with the art selection.

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I'd shit my pants if they did music in the vein of Two Steps From Hell...

At least watch the top one. If you've never experienced epic music before, you need to. Everything in life will be so much more epic.

EDIT: If you want more epic music, head on over to ThePrimeCronus's page on Youtube. He posts so much epic music, it's amazing that he knows of all of these bands.

ThePrimeCronus

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4L4Vac0HBJ8-f3LBFllMsg

EDIT: This one has a bit of an odd tone to it in the beginning. Excellent song.

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just listened to the audio talk. like what Im hearing so far! synergy between me and brian min yay! thanks chris for making my post sound like a pretentious doucheball post, like what how Im probably am though. at least I didnt get the crapbox blindfolded fool voice :)

maher shalal hash baz is a japanese naivist post-pop dude/band. get on it. :) its pretty interesting. or used to be what do I know

glass bells are a nice instrument sound for demons. night mission you say?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37FWjYhwqFs

Im thinking home-made, false-sounding versions of these. make them out of various-sized bottles and hang up. ding ding ding. budget you say! and you get to drink whats in them first, which includes them massive sake bottles.

and this is something Ive been thinking for a while but I guess everything is on youtube already

you can also play/tap tap while emptying or filling with water to get a nice slide:y sound.

other (hero sound?)

Udu is a pretty sweet ethnic sound as well.

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..some really great stuff there, frilandsspion! ;^)

loved that salad-bowl freestyle tabla session!

got me thinkin of koto-drums and the soundtracks of kurosawa.

(the theme from 'seven samurai' is classic!)

which again reminded me of tuvan throat singing and the musical stylings of yat-kha, altai kai and huun-huur-tu.

something like this would certainly add some air of mystery..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XAreA_yMxU

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which again reminded me of tuvan throat singing and the musical stylings of yat-kha, altai kai and huun-huur-tu.

something like this would certainly add some air of mystery..

oh man. I was actually looking at some eskimo throat singing (for this thread, linking from some mongolian music) but didnt find anything then that I thought was fitting. the ones you posted are great though! love it!

the one in the middle sounds like an intro sequence already =) many nice sounds in there. throat-singing feels very warrior culture and ancient-like. (dont know how realistic it woud be to record)

percussion on the last one is also bad-ass.

EDIT: duuude Ive just been listening to that last whole concert...this is flippin epic. it just feels like listening to the history of the world. maybe some of the more lyrical bits needs to be toned down (amongst other things to make it a _little_ less culture-specific) but this should be the theme for the heroes... this just makes me really proud to be human somehow! :)

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Wow! Just listened to the whole thread. The one piece that REALLY stood out to me was Albert Kubezin and Yat-Kha-Yenisei-Punk (Deep In The Heart of Tuva).

THIS IS EXTREMELY AWESOME. I've always loved the use of Tuvan throat singing to establish a really creepy drone. There's something VERY macabre about it, and an effect similar to it could be used in some of the demon themes.

I always really liked they way Christopher Heral used those deep, scratchy, demonic sounding voices in the song Dancing With Domz from the Beyond Good & Evil soundtrack. I feel like it has a similar effect to the creepy Tuvan throat singing drone in the above piece, plus the fact that it's a chant gives it a very military and somewhat "primitive" texture. It might be hard to find a Tuvan throat singer, but it wouldn't be too hard to just put a creepy effect on someone chanting some demon language and then place it into a track like a drone.

This is the Christopher Heral piece in question. Demonic drone/chanting starts at about 0:45 and persists

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Im liking the idea of Celtic/Tradional/Tribal music for the game it seems to fit the art style and theme of the game well. I was searching for interesting celtic music and I found these guys called Clanadonia, they seem pretty awesome.

Here are the guys in action! Music starts at 1:45

I would definetly let this guy guard my keep : )

Also I think the idea that the devs brought up about transitioning the music when your guys and the demons take turns sound really cool, cant wait!

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So Prokofiev was already mentioned here, very nice! I'd like to post two more pieces composed by him. The first one is "Obsession Diabolique". I think it sounds wonderfully spooky and demonic and could indeed convey the spirit of the anarchic demons of entropy.

aN1c9K92L8s

The second one is quite well-know, it's "Dance of the Knights". Whenever I hear it, I think of epic armies marching to war. It fits into the spirit of Massive Chalice as I imagine it so far.

DUmq1cpcglQ

And now for some appropriate folk music. Here is some Karelian stuff, it has quite prominent Eastern European and Asian influences. Karelia is situated between Russia and Finland and has some of the oldest folk music traditions in the world. Uploading the songs via file hosting because I couldn't find them on YouTube.

03. Tammi Vihanda PilviOak Green Cluod.mp3 - 12.09 MB

Kyymalain.mp3 - 8.02 MB

08. Song without words.mp3 - 11.37 MB

Sorry for the inconvenience. I think this music sounds really ancient.

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Im liking the idea of Celtic/Tradional/Tribal music for the game it seems to fit the art style and theme of the game well. I was searching for interesting celtic music and I found these guys called Clanadonia, they seem pretty awesome.

*snip*

I would definetly let this guy guard my keep : )

These are great! The only reservation I would have about using TOO much Celtic influence is that fantasy games ALWAYS tend to go to that region for their influences. England/Scotland/Ireland/Wales/Etc. Not that I don't love that region and its history, because I totally do, but if we're trying to give Massive Chalice a distinct flavor apart from all other fantasy games, we might want to be careful about how much we draw from that one well.

However, what I absolutely love about the links you posted, and what I think makes them distinctive, is the use of the DRUMS. Very, very nice.

So Prokofiev was already mentioned here, very nice! I'd like to post two more pieces composed by him. The first one is "Obsession Diabolique". I think it sounds wonderfully spooky and demonic and could indeed convey the spirit of the anarchic demons of entropy.

The second one is quite well-know, it's "Dance of the Knights". Whenever I hear it, I think of epic armies marching to war. It fits into the spirit of Massive Chalice as I imagine it so far.

And now for some appropriate folk music. Here is some Karelian stuff, it has quite prominent Eastern European and Asian influences. Karelia is situated between Russia and Finland and has some of the oldest folk music traditions in the world. Uploading the songs via file hosting because I couldn't find them on YouTube.

Sorry for the inconvenience. I think this music sounds really ancient.

The first Prokiev piece I wasn't too keen on, but I did like the second one. However, you provided download links to a few songs that I thought were actually a lot better! I went through the trouble of uploading one of them to YouTube for you.

To others: I recommend skipping to 1:45 for this song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxckOmit1iM

The thing that I love the most about it is not only its folkiness, but also the way it uses that deep, gruff voice as a drone note, which is exactly the sort of thing I was saying that I loved in my last post! It would probably get old to do it in EVERY SONG, but it's just such a bad ass sounding thing to do! It's really great.

Speaking of the drums in QuArtz's post, though. The more I think about it, the more I feel like having some really good variety in the percussion department would be helpful. Nothing conveys a military encounter better than a good drum line. By searching for FOLK MUSIC + DRUM, I found several examples from different cultures:

JAPANESE DRUMMING:

AFRICAN DRUMMING:

SRI LANKAN DRUMMING:

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If there are any stages that have a bunch of ice or crystals in them, there Bette be a shitload of bells and a glass harp involved.

Also: nexus piano.

And one of my favourite prices of music is the glitch mob's Palace of the Innocents: http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=axveyzma3mA&desktop;_uri=/watch?v=axveyzma3mA

I would like to see the team play with the idea of having the music become more and more synthetic as the corruption level increases. Having the soundtrack battle between orchestral and digital as you fight off demons sounds rad.

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Here is a quick and dirty sketch I made for some reference as a corruption concept:

https://soundcloud.com/simplykept/sketch-corruption-of-castle

The corruption happens somewhere around the one minute mark.

Ignore the quality since this was done super fast with a very low quality VST just to play around with things. Didn't wanna spend too much time on something that might get ignored by the developers, but I got this itch to do something for Massive Chalice after I finally backed today.

Messed around with the detuning idea they spoke of in the roundtable stream, and other simple concepts. While the quality is not near my standards, the effectiveness does serve as proof that great things can be done for the game even with the current budget.

If anyone (developer or not) wants more info on what's going on here, ask!

And a bonus sketch, mellow background music for a sea side fort, or something...

https://soundcloud.com/simplykept/sea-side-fort

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Hot off the audio podcast, just wanted to throw in my 2¢: BALKAN GYPSY BRASS!!

That could be totally bonkers! I know that a lot of the other art inspirations come from Polish and North Asian influences and this would be neither, but it is a very unique sound that combined with some older, rougher instruments would set a very distinct mood.

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These are great! The only reservation I would have about using TOO much Celtic influence is that fantasy games ALWAYS tend to go to that region for their influences. England/Scotland/Ireland/Wales/Etc. Not that I don't love that region and its history, because I totally do, but if we're trying to give Massive Chalice a distinct flavor apart from all other fantasy games, we might want to be careful about how much we draw from that one well.

However, what I absolutely love about the links you posted, and what I think makes them distinctive, is the use of the DRUMS. Very, very nice.

Yeah the drums is what stood out for me. I should have explained why I chose that music better, I dont think there are many people that would want to listen to bagpipes though out the entire game :) I agree, I don't think any specific region should be used as musical influence since this is a fantasy game and it should be more unique.

Those were some good percussion samples you put up, the Japanese one was especially awesome. Drums are probably the most universal instrument.

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Hot off the audio podcast, just wanted to throw in my 2¢: BALKAN GYPSY BRASS!!

That could be totally bonkers! I know that a lot of the other art inspirations come from Polish and North Asian influences and this would be neither, but it is a very unique sound that combined with some older, rougher instruments would set a very distinct mood.

I dont think its bonkers at all, very nice brassy and bass sound. It would be neat if different regions or bloodlines had unique influences in music, but maybe thats asking too much from the team. I also thought that maybe the music could change over the timeline from simpler instruments to more advanced brass or orchestral, like as your realm advanced in technology or something.

Good stuff, definitely has a lot of emotion.

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I dont think its bonkers at all, very nice brassy and bass sound. It would be neat if different regions or bloodlines had unique influences in music, but maybe thats asking too much from the team. I also thought that maybe the music could change over the timeline from simpler instruments to more advanced brass or orchestral, like as your realm advanced in technology or something.

Good stuff, definitely has a lot of emotion.

I said bonkers because it would feel bizarre to me. I grew up around this music and I hardly ever see it in western contexts (only exception are acts like Beirut or Gogol Bordello) and never in video games. It is such a weird jazzy mariachi wedding music with a party beat, but I can totally see it working with an epic saga spin. It has a certain Double Fine Could Totally Pull This Off™ quality about it.

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I've been enjoying a lot of the throat-singing stuff in this thread. Definitely seems like it has potential in a game like this.

Every time I hear Brad/John/Other talk about the music in Massive Chalice, I can't help but remember Myth: The Fallen Lords, and old PC game that did just about everything right in terms of sound, story and atmosphere. But the music was amazing, particularly for the time of release (1997). It has this deep, forboding cello, with elements of the dissonance that Brad et al. were talking about during the sound chat. It's very much a conventional approach, but you could do a lot worse than to imitate it.

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THIS IS EXTREMELY AWESOME. I've always loved the use of Tuvan throat singing to establish a really creepy drone. There's something VERY macabre about it, and an effect similar to it could be used in some of the demon themes.

whaaat? I imagined 100% that the throat singing would be in the humans theme and music. It feels to me very (ancient) human, but exotic of course.

along with that soaring flute thing...

Im not saying it coulnt be made creepy depending on how its used, and with changing up the melodies, but it just never struck me that that would be for the demons. :)

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THIS IS EXTREMELY AWESOME. I've always loved the use of Tuvan throat singing to establish a really creepy drone. There's something VERY macabre about it, and an effect similar to it could be used in some of the demon themes.

whaaat? I imagined 100% that the throat singing would be in the humans theme and music. It feels to me very (ancient) human, but exotic of course.

along with that soaring flute thing...

Im not saying it coulnt be made creepy depending on how its used, and with changing up the melodies, but it just never struck me that that would be for the demons. :)

Doesn't matter to me! Either way it's GREAT!

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Listened to the Brian Min interview and came up with a few ideas for the music. Wrote a battle music demo, here's the link: http://www.maxcastillo.com/music/Massive_Chalice.mp3 (as of the time of this post the website layout isn't up but it should be up by tomorrow)

So the track starts with a 'human' theme with the usual heroic bravado and as the developers mentioned with lots of brass and percussion, and about halfway through it switches to the demon music. What I've done for the demons is I used "tortured" instruments; instruments played in unorthodox ways, abused instruments, etc. You'll hear some instruments being detuned live as well. I decided to keep the same tempo or a similar "rhythm" throughout the cue in order to maintain the flow of battle. The idea is that the music could be cut up into smaller bits allowing fluid transition from one faction's music to another's. So for example if you were to be playing as the humans, upon finishing your turn the music would play a short transition and then begin playing the demons' music.

So what do you think, guys? Let's have some feedback. :)

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whoa max! you actually made that?? that is super awesome, thats super impressive!!!

for my personal taste its almost a little too good, a little too hollywood epic. (but thats what most people seemed to want for the music so...no problem there)

I really love the demon part. tortured instruments you say...like it like it!

Im assuming this is for when theres an actual battle in progress, Id love to hear your take on the quieter bit before that happens as well!

good work mate!!

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