Sign in to follow this  
bobbydigital00

Class and feature suggestions.

Recommended Posts

i love the ide you guys are going with the classes. they feel like normal shmos bringing what they know to bear against the demons (woodsman, alchemists etc.)

MY SUGGESTION FOR THE 5th CLASS

-i like the 'spearman' idea you have but it lacks the flavour and fun of your other heros. i suggest a fisherman themed hero with a net and a pole with a boat-hook on the end. he would be a cross between a pike man, gondolier, and a roman gladiator.

- the long boat-hook would attack from melee and from 2 squares away (giving flexibility). i imagine the boat hook having the duel purpose of either pulling enemy's toward the hero or pulling heroes out of danger. this would give the hero big flexibility and great synergy (caber-jack/fisherman hybrid pulling a demon in with boat hook, then knocking back with caber, alchemist pulls demon into melee range and blows self up, arbolast lays trap at feet and fisherman pulls demon right onto it)

- the fishing net would be a mid range stun or snare attack he could learn. this would give the fisherman mor control. he could play as a hard melle character or as a ranged support. this skill would also synergys with other heros (eg. alchemist lays down a feild of poison and switches to net/boathook to snare demon with in the poison felid, duleist applys debuff, fisherman snares and caber has time to luber over and smash)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
i love the ide you guys are going with the classes. they feel like normal shmos bringing what they know to bear against the demons (woodsman, alchemists etc.)

MY SUGGESTION FOR THE 5th CLASS

-i like the 'spearman' idea you have but it lacks the flavour and fun of your other heros. i suggest a fisherman themed hero with a net and a pole with a boat-hook on the end. he would be a cross between a pike man, gondolier, and a roman gladiator.

- the long boat-hook would attack from melee and from 2 squares away (giving flexibility). i imagine the boat hook having the duel purpose of either pulling enemy's toward the hero or pulling heroes out of danger. this would give the hero big flexibility and great synergy (caber-jack/fisherman hybrid pulling a demon in with boat hook, then knocking back with caber, alchemist pulls demon into melee range and blows self up, arbolast lays trap at feet and fisherman pulls demon right onto it)

- the fishing net would be a mid range stun or snare attack he could learn. this would give the fisherman mor control. he could play as a hard melle character or as a ranged support. this skill would also synergys with other heros (eg. alchemist lays down a feild of poison and switches to net/boathook to snare demon with in the poison felid, duleist applys debuff, fisherman snares and caber has time to luber over and smash)

Ah'd dig seeing abilities akin to these as two-turn set-ups rather than immediate effects. Akin to

1) stunning an opponent with the baseball in TF2 and following up with the cleaver for a guranteed critical hit

2) Firing a ball from the shock rifle in Unreal Tournament then shooting it with the primary fire mode to explode it.

3) Pulling an enemy into a singularity in ME2 then hitting them with warp to cause an explosion

it could be a two-phase system

A) enemy is pinned by net

B) netted enemies may be moved further with the boat-hook than enemies without the netted status

C) Heroes have increased accuracy against netted enemies.

fluff-wise this implies an enemy free of the net is able to struggle more against the boat-hook moving him. Nets could be broken from in two-turns so they serve as a temporary delay in enemy movement (which enemies have a chance to dodge), buying the Retiarius time to deal with another enemy next turn. This could work as a delaying action (net enemies when the Retiarius is outnumbered to buy him time to escape or buy time for heroes to come to the rescue from elsewhere on the map) or a set-up for a finisher (wounded enemy's not allowed to escape, heavy-class hard-to-move enemy can now be moved into combat with a hero better-suited to deal with him).

The net could have a few types the Retiarius spends a move switching between.

1. Weighted nets may take 1 more turn to break free from but reduce how far the netted model can be moved.

2. Hooked nets cause damage to netted enemies for each square they're moved.

3. Large nets cover 4 squares (random scatter direction) instead of 1 so they may bag additional enemies.

To counter movement abilities demons could have weight classes. So a light enemy can be held down, knocked back, pulled, pushed, etc. the furthest while a heavy-class enemy is affected by these abilities for half the duration/squares, a super-heavy demon's immune to such abilities and an middle-weight demon takes the baseline 100% effect of each ability. To prevent a movement-emphasizing class from becoming useless against a super-heavy, an enemy a hero attempts to move into (or through) a square already inhabited by a demon would cause damage to both demons, place the heavier demon in the square, and place the lighter demon in an empty adjacent square.

http://www.roman-empire.net/graphics/reenact/gladiators/retiarius.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i see the fisherman as being a mele support hero. the classes as they stand fill (i am guessing) these roles

arbolast- single target ranged huge dps, secondary function map vision (with hawk)

alchemist- multi-target aoe ranged, secondary function (buffs or risky RNG skills)

duelist- single target dps melee, secondary function debuff

caber-jack- agro tank melee, secondary function knock back/multi target cleave

the fisherman (needs a better name) would be mobile and fast (taking advantage of arbolats sight bonuses for positioning). have decent melee capabilities (takes advantage of duelist debuffs). have a stunning net skill (good synergy with squishy ranged aoe alchemist) and the boat hook (support caber-jack in a choak-point without having to engage in melee)

assuming the branching skill trees are still the method we will be skilling our heroes (aka XCOM). then every time the tree gives 2 options for the fisherman you would choose between a net skill and a boat hook skill (do you want more support or more of a brawler) and you would get a very mixed class, not superseding any class, but supporting them all and standing on its own.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I already posted this in another thread but I wouldn't mind more opinions

I just watched the teamstream and I always love the ideas you guys come up with. However I really hope in the final version their will be some form of magic class and I know you guys want the 5th class to be melee focused and you don’t really want the humans to have magic, so how about a compromise. Their could be a Monk style class. They would be brawlers that could buff themselves with possible small amounts of demonic magic or awesome chalice magic maybe… Idk. But not only would they fit the place of the 5th class melee fighter they would also quench my undying thirst for a mage. On top of that if you guys really wanted a class to get a giant Hellboy type glove/fist weapon this would be PERFECT!!!! PLUS THIS CLASS COULD HAVE “TIME FIST” AS AN ABILITY!!!!! Also I bet this character class design would be uber fun. I would be so excited if I saw this that I would even drop more money into the tip jar.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i have been thinking about the fisherman idea i posted and about the 'demon- ologists' mentioned in the team stream and wonderding how to bring them togethr. then i remebered moby dick.

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSujaqiZUsqeUjhKVU6rertE0odmqlQC2dJzoVa4H_buowTSN9n8A

whalers were fisherman that sailed out into the ocean hunting gigantic whales that could sink ships and swallow you whole. they hunted whales by chasing them with little rowboats and stabbing them with harpoons that were tied to there boats. the whalers would let the whale pull them and there boat along until it got to tired to swim. the idea/image is just mid boggling. tiny people rushing in the wake of a huge and mosterous animal that is pulling them through the watter at breakneck speeds while blood and water spray about them and hungry sharks chase afterward (most whalers couldn't swim). i cant think of a better image for a demonologist. "CATCH THE DAEMONS AT ANY COST!" the idea of demonologits hunting demons to the end of the earth partly due to hatred of demons and partly becuase it is there job...

to quote moby dick: "he hurld upon the whales white hump all the general rage felt by his entire race from adam on down. if his chest had been a morter he would have burst his hearts hot shell upon him..."

sounds like a berserker to me...

Peck-mobydick.jpg

that is a demon slayer right there.

3535dau.jpg

one of the whalers from moby dick is a good model for the demonalogist i think. he is a newzeland islander/warior. who wears a suit and top hat but is tattooed head to foot and carries a shrunken head around his neck. there is an interesting mix of "civilized" gentleman, expert warrior, and master of the occult/bizarre/otherworldly, as well as a hearty dose of ordinary fisherman to lighten him up.

3606804487_bb7c6781c8.jpg

as a mobile, melee/mid range hero a fisherman/whaler/pikeman/Retiarius could be a very interesting hero

1 part scientist. 1 part vodo doctor, 1 part hunter, 1 part acrobat, 1 part gladiator, 1 part fisherman= demonologist

7_whale_wideweb__470x313,0.jpg

i drew this and its silly but i like it :)

firsh man.png

578d003aa2b28_firshman.png.fed680e4e7167

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A few little comments after watching the team stream and reading this thread.

I really like the idea of combining the arbalist and falconer concepts. Falconry at is its heart is a form of small game hunting. It fits very well in the theme of the arbalist as described in the team stream. Instead of making the falcon the core attack of a "falconer" class, it could be used to take away fog of war (as described in the team stream), distract the target/do a minor damage attack to set him up for a more powerful shot from the cross bow, or even flush an enemy from cover. I think they would really work well as one role.

If you are interested in getting a sniper rifle kind of look to a crossbow check out target crossbows like the ones at http://www.winzeler.ch/ These have the bow mid way down an elongated stock. This allows for a lighter draw pull, but long stock, putting a lot of distance between the front and rear sight, greatly improving accuracy. They look kind of interesting vs a standard cross bow just made larger. Perhaps this could be a different version that trades damage capacity for accuracy.

File:Armbrustschiessen.jpg

With the fisherman/harpoonist described by others above, why not make him the "pull" to the caberjack's "push" repositioning attack. This makes the caberjack a great tank by being able to move the demons away from the more vulnerable classes, while allowing the harpoonist the ability to pull enemies in to closer potential damage from the other members of the party. Splitting the push and pull in to two different classes makes an interesting separation of roles.

My 2 drachmas.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A class should be based on QueeQueg.

Let's not draw inspiration from that racist volume, Moby Dick.

"There was a corporeal humility in looking up at Daggoo; and a white man standing before him seemed a white flag come to beg truce of a fortress."

-Chapter 27 Knights and Squires; Moby Dick. Page 131

http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/004/2/b/moby_bone_by_kamijo-d4lbdyx.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Watched the Stream and had some ideas, though I think a lot of them are already explored.

But the idea of a disabling support class seems decent. Like, ranged disabling is maybe like a Bolo or Net or any kind of chained weapon really (or whip). And maybe even his 1 or 2 hex range weapon is disabling as well, like a hook or some sort of tool that can hold an enemy for a second or two.

Maybe he/she as a hunter, could also throw down a ready-made traps or throw say noise makers that can distract and mislead the enemy.

Alternatively what about a recon class? You have a melee, a short-mid range AE guy, a long range guy and a commander. But don't really have anyone who is maybe all purpose and light on their feet?

Maybe someone with disposable short-ranged throwing weapons like Javelin, Bolo, Knives, etcetera or those cool metal rings that Persian or Indian warriors used (like Xena, but less silly) then as a fall back they have some sort of light implement. Maybe a light axe light a tomahawk? If they're recon they'd use an axe to chop wood normally anyway.

Oooh, or a metal boomerang like the wild kid off the Road Warrior. With a metal glove. Bit derivative, but fairly cool. Metal glove, lethal boomerangs, light melee as a fallback?

OR . . . maybe the character has dual swords with hooks on the end, which can either be used in short range for a flurry of attacks or joined together for a range 2 attack (like the swords Michelle Yeoh uses in Crouching Tiger).

OR, maybe someone like an acrobat. Doesn't have any weapons except maybe some armour and some claws or other weapons which attach to the hands? The character is also nimble and can perform disabling hand to hand attacks or maybe they can vault over obstacles, friendly players or even enemies and then strike from behind? Maybe can roll with the punches, get knocked back more frequently but take less melee damage as a result? Or better dodge vs ranged? Maybe the character is brightly coloured like the Bull fighter or rodeo clown, so they can potentially get enemies to chase them (away from less capable or wounded fighters). Might not make much sense depending on the intelligence level of the demons.

OR . . maybe it's like an Engineer type guy. Maybe has a shield that he could say throw as a weapon (time) or he could plant in the ground to provide ranged cover, and then he switches over to secondary weapon set like, short sword and a Bolo or somesuch. Or short sword, dagger, etcetera.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A class should be based on QueeQueg.

Let's not draw inspiration from that racist volume, Moby Dick.

"There was a corporeal humility in looking up at Daggoo; and a white man standing before him seemed a white flag come to beg truce of a fortress."

-Chapter 27 Knights and Squires; Moby Dick. Page 131

moby dick isnt racist. it was simply written in a different time, about a diffrent time. it is a book that uses a great deal of symbolism and metaphor and it acutely depicts its time. it is a story about huminty and all its bad parts, hate, vengeance, obsession, cultural colonization. queequeg is one of the main characters and while he makes other characters unconfortable, the book to a large extent focuses on his humanity (in contrast with ahab's inhuman hatred).

there ist anything racist about that quote... it is saying that dagoo was a huge man, bigger than any white man on the ship, that everyone on-board had to "look up" to him and and felt humble (small and childlike) in his presence. melvill could have just said- "daggoo was a fortress of a man." but that isnt racist either it is just a description.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

“There was a corporeal humility in looking up at Daggoo; and a white man standing before him seemed a white flag come to beg truce of a fortress.”

-Chapter 27 Knights and Squires; Moby Dick. Page 131

there ist anything racist about that quote... it is saying that dagoo was a huge man, bigger than any white man on the ship, that everyone on-board had to "look up" to him and and felt humble (small and childlike) in his presence. melvill could have just said- "daggoo was a fortress of a man." but that isnt racist either it is just a description.

Melville didn't write, "any man on the ship" he wrote, "a white man".

He selected a phrase to describe a sense of physical inferiority "corporeal humility" and imagery depicting an abandonment of all self-respect in favor of supplication, "a white flag come to beg truce of a fortress".

the book to a large extent focuses on queequeg's humanity

As for QueeQueg, he is not displayed as especially human but rather superhuman. His introduction to the ship is for one guy to reject him because he's a cannibal. To resolve this conflict, there's a sudden spin of the sails which no one on board can stop, requiring the noble savage come to the rescue of the inferior white men and then save the life of the man who criticized him, who got knocked overboard and is drowning, demonstrating not only great skill but also a moral high ground.

It's ham-fisted bad writing, making contrived situations to have a Mary Sue show how even cannibals are not only as good as white men from Nantucket they're better so shame on you if you ever regarded a colored man with anything less than reverence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My idea: Magician (or something like it).

It wouldn't be a mage because magicians don't know real magic, it's all tricks. The magician could have various illusion or escape artist style skills. For example, smoke bombs, or an ability that lets them disappear for a couple turns then reappear in a random place. They could release doves as a distraction. They could shoot fireworks because those look like magic. They could also have some of the abilities the "circus performer" would have, like firebreathing. Aside from skills, the magician would fight with a rapier and have high dodge but low armor. As demonic abilities are gained, the magician's skills would get to be more legitimate and they would become some sort of demonic wizard.

I dunno. I like the fisherman and battle-smith but I think there needs to be another class like the alchemist that is less of a fighter and more of a pseudo-magic user (alchemy isn't exactly real chemistry).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My idea: Magician (or something like it).

It wouldn't be a mage because magicians don't know real magic, it's all tricks.

"Illusions. A trick is something a whore does for money."

Publicity_-_S2_-_G.O.B..jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Though my ability suggestions were given with levity, ah could go for a brewer class: carrying a keg on his back, rolling it for attacks, drinking brews as potions, hell, it could just be a more flavorful version of the Alchemist, or the alchemist, in addition to his noxious chaemicals, may also make some bier for himself depicted in an animation or two, or tea instead if the developers fear PEGI/ESRB.

http://media.blizzard.com/wow/media/fanart/fanart-1342-large.jpg

A blacksmith "battlesmith" would be cool, as has been said. Makes weapons glow orange-white hot and burns ignores an amount of enemy armor because of that melting, piercing, heat.

...yet, the idea of "job militarized" led me to think about a tailor. Sounds silly right? What's a tailor going to do? Well

A) Armor improvement. What if this dude buffed not gear in general, not weapons, but only armor in a variety of ways.

Refit Movement/accuracy penalties from armor shifted down a weight-class. Light armor gains bonus move and accuracy, medium armor moves as if in light armor and heavy armor moves as if in medium armor.

Patchup Stops bleeding effects; stabilizes an ally in critical condition.

Reinforce Enemies critical chance is reduced.

Dress for Sucess Increase armor rating of gear. Heavy armor gets a bonus, medium becomes heavy-rated for damage reduction purposes, light becomes medium.

Investiture Think Mario's hats, Kirby's or Megaman's looks pairing with their powers, in the form of regalia. The Tailor places on an ally Investments of Nike, and that ally gains the ability to teleport to any visible area of the field, animated as him becoming a lightning strike toward the sky and returning from the heavens a lightning strike become a man. Other mantles, crowns, scepters, orbs, etc. invest different abilities in an ally. Only one of each kind may be dispensed at a time and each hero may only have one investiture at a time. They disappear after x rounds.

B) Needles. What a slender, thready weapon. Puri puri puri

http://es.web.img3.acsta.net/r_640_600/b_1_d6d6d6/medias/nmedia/00/02/30/90/audition1.jpg

Eyeshot Reduced chance to hit. On successful hit, "blinded" status is applied to opponent, permanently reducing his accuracy.

Artery Reduced chance to hit. Bleeding effect applied to enemy.

Measure Increased accuracy vs measured target.

Find Seam Attack takes more time-units than default, increased critical hit chance.

Flurry Several light-damage attacks for one. Has potential to do a higher amount of damage than a normal attack but armor prevents these low-damage hits from getting through. So only (greatly) useful against lightly-armored opponents.

Sew Sews his own eyes shut to enter a trance. Reduced chance to hit. Greatly increased chance to counter-attack.

Razorthread Suspend a garotte between two map objects (like cover pieces, rocks, etc.). Anyone who passes between (ally or enemu) takes damage once, then the trap is removed. Bleeding effect is applied.

http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/t/a/tatr-fl-bbelt-l-at_1_mark.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey!

I'm pretty new here and I just wanted to jump in and make people aware of something I picked up on in the last TeamStream about a class name. So I was listening to Teamstream and Brad was listing off some of the class names, one of which was CaberJack. When I heard him say that I thought he had named it CaverJect, which if you Google it, is a prostaglandin injection, and a pretty graphic one at that. I know its not exactly the same spelling or sound but it is really pretty close and I'm not sure how many other people would pick up on that immediately. Maybe no one outside of the reproductive sciences will catch it! Just wanted to give the community and developers a heads up. I’d hate to name something as awesome as the CaberJack only to find out I named it something unintentional! Haha I hope this isn't an inappropriate thing to post and I should just keep my points to myself. If it is please disregard!!

Cheers!

Anthony

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Caberjack.

I'm just going to suggest this one thing: beartraps; beartrap on caber, and bear trap accessories. It's the best I could think of for position control, as I felt like knockback wouldn't be enough in a lot of situations. So I decided to stick to it and even make it thematic.

Roles: tank, defender, knockback, position control, blocker, pusher.

Deflection: instead of dodging, the caberjack will try to block attacks, gaining an attack of opportunity when succeeding to do so.

Forceful deflection: first successful deflection per turn allows the caber to knock the attacker in any chosen direction.

Hold the line: enemies that provoke an attack of opportunity are pushed toward the direction the caberjack is facing.

Wall of stick: takes reduced damage from front and sides.

Huddle: Everytime the caber is attacked, the next attack deals reduced damage that turn.

Caber cannon: knock an enemy back with force proportional to the health the caber is missing, dealing increased damage and knocking enemies back further (potentially hitting more enemies).

Anchorman: A manly punch with a bear trap chained to the caberjack. An enemy must spend a turn attacking the chain or be pulled (a set amount) toward the caberjack at the start of the caberjacks turn. If the enemy gets dragged close enough, the anchorman gets an attack of opportunity. If the enemy gets far enough away, the effect ends.

Rampart: the caberjack holds his caber in front of him, widening his physical presence (takes up more gridspace) can only move a minimal distance while taking reduced damage, especially from the direction he's facing. Allies can freely pass his area, and can even mount his shoulders for safety, so long as the attacks come from the front of the caberjack. Doing any other action, will place his ally behind himself and cancel the mode.

(relic upgrade: mobile fortress: the caberjack can now carry 2 more allies on his shoulders, and move faster.)

Man-bear mode: puts caber on his back taking reduced damage from behind, increased damage from the front, but increased deflection chance, and dual wields bear traps that deal increased damage, but deals reduced damage if he attacks more than 2 enemies per turn. When the caber successfully deflects with a bear trap, he traps the weapon, taking reduced damage, and damaging the attacker. When a weapon is trapped it deals reduced damage.

(relic upgrade: man-bear-shark: The Caberjack will hold an additional beartrap in his mouth, allowing the caberjack to attack up to 3 targets per turn before dealing reduced damage as well as having increased deflection chance and take reduced damage from the front.

Boomstick: attacks 3 targets and knocks them back a square.

Trap-prep: will spend some time attaching a trap to his caber, allowing his next attack to trap an enemy and deal increased damage. When the caber is struck during this time, he will drop traps at random location around him, rooting enemies that step on it.

Vigiliance: successive attacks of opportunity don't have diminishing returns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sorry this is not even on the main topic, but am I the only one who thinks there shouldnt be character customization? I think it breaks immersion and the whole theme of character individuality. even more so with the family stuff. why have it? whats so fun about it?

if you like color coordination as some sort of strategy-related note system, I think that should be limited to clothes etc.

I think I agree with you.

As much as I usually enjoy customization, I think determining it by "genes" and not by picks, seems cooler for this game.

If there's bugdet for this kinda thing, it'd be cool to see some similarity between fathers and son, and whatnot, but picking it seems counter-productive for the family theme.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sorry this is not even on the main topic, but am I the only one who thinks there shouldnt be character customization? I think it breaks immersion and the whole theme of character individuality. even more so with the family stuff. why have it? whats so fun about it?

if you like color coordination as some sort of strategy-related note system, I think that should be limited to clothes etc.

I think I agree with you.

As much as I usually enjoy customization, I think determining it by "genes" and not by picks, seems cooler for this game.

If there's bugdet for this kinda thing, it'd be cool to see some similarity between fathers and son, and whatnot, but picking it seems counter-productive for the family theme.

Best of both worlds options.

1) The initial bloodlines appearance is customizable when a new gameworld/session is generated. Players start with randomly generated bloodline templates and can immediately accept them or customize the appearance of each (and corresponding aesthetic-genes) before clicking accept. After this initial step the bloodlines appearances will remain consistent and peasants who can potentially be upgraded to heroes will have random sets of traits but players have agency in determining their heroes appearance.

2) Some gene-rewriting tech which unlocks a room that several heroes can be stored in for some years to rewrite some of their genes. This may be intended as a way to heal/eliinate/rewrite negative genes or graft on discovered good genes but a player who wants to waste such power on aesthetic genes like hair and eye color has this option.

If you hate the idea of customization you wouldn't have to take that option. You could keep heroes in their original random templates. If you can't fight the temptation and end up customizing characters because you can then it proves you do prefer this option, despite your complaints to the contrary.

I'm for customation as a matter of player agency, since there'll be multiple hair colors, eye colors, etc. anyway but content-generation-wise I much favor additional combat mechanics/abilities over more looks. As some practical examples

A. TF2 starts with one appearance for each class. The combat gameplay is solid. The game becomes popular, new hats are added over time, and it's still beloved.

B. Brink includes a lot of costumes at launch. The combat mechanics are bad. The game is forgotten.

The lesson is gameplay's most important. Art assets which support gameplay: additional animation, f/x, models, icons, terrain damage decals, blood textures, etc. are all important but an excess of labor dedicated to visuals which don't impact gameplay at the expense of adding and fine-tuning combat makes for a bad game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A few little comments after watching the team stream and reading this thread.

I really like the idea of combining the arbalist and falconer concepts. Falconry at is its heart is a form of small game hunting. It fits very well in the theme of the arbalist as described in the team stream. Instead of making the falcon the core attack of a "falconer" class, it could be used to take away fog of war (as described in the team stream), distract the target/do a minor damage attack to set him up for a more powerful shot from the cross bow, or even flush an enemy from cover. I think they would really work well as one role.

If you are interested in getting a sniper rifle kind of look to a crossbow check out target crossbows like the ones at http://www.winzeler.ch/ These have the bow mid way down an elongated stock. This allows for a lighter draw pull, but long stock, putting a lot of distance between the front and rear sight, greatly improving accuracy. They look kind of interesting vs a standard cross bow just made larger. Perhaps this could be a different version that trades damage capacity for accuracy.

File:Armbrustschiessen.jpg

With the fisherman/harpoonist described by others above, why not make him the "pull" to the caberjack's "push" repositioning attack. This makes the caberjack a great tank by being able to move the demons away from the more vulnerable classes, while allowing the harpoonist the ability to pull enemies in to closer potential damage from the other members of the party. Splitting the push and pull in to two different classes makes an interesting separation of roles.

My 2 drachmas.

Derek found this same image! We've got what we think is a rad twist on "dude with a crossbow." We'll talk about it tomorrow on the Teamstream! :D!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sorry this is not even on the main topic, but am I the only one who thinks there shouldnt be character customization? I think it breaks immersion and the whole theme of character individuality. even more so with the family stuff. why have it? whats so fun about it?

if you like color coordination as some sort of strategy-related note system, I think that should be limited to clothes etc.

I think I agree with you.

As much as I usually enjoy customization, I think determining it by "genes" and not by picks, seems cooler for this game.

If there's bugdet for this kinda thing, it'd be cool to see some similarity between fathers and son, and whatnot, but picking it seems counter-productive for the family theme.

I agree! I think Blood Bridle makes a good suggestion about enabling either: a) backer set house aesthetics or b) fully customizable houses at the beginning of the game. After that? I think it should all be gene controlled! So all the Muirs have red hair, or the males all grow beards, or whatever. That could be a very cool way to also make it easy for you to pick out members of each family at a glance based on their appearance, which could also correlate with their class. OK the Muirs all have red hair and tend to be warriors, ok! And then the anomalous brunette wizard Muir stands out even more.

I think it's very Massive Chalice to have inherited appearances, and this might be one game where you don't want too much individual customization of every soldier's appearance. Hats and stuff? Sure, that kind of individual customization rocks! But I think family resemblance would be such an awesome thing to have here!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Could a class, like the caberjack, have armor like a fat suite to make the model look fat?

We've taken for granted various effects common to tactics games will be included in Massive Chalice but we haven't explicated them much nor received confirmation. Let's talk about what status effects we'd like to see in game and how they'd work. If the cut-list only allowed 10 status affects into the game what would you want them to be?

1 Knockdown: Model falls prone. Easier to hit. Takes move for it to get back up.

2 Knockback: Model's moved a number of squares away from the enemy which hit it.

3 Stun: The model can't take any action for a number of turns.

4 Sleep: Identical to stun except any affect applied to the model, whether a friendly attack or item, will end the sleep status.

5 Blind: The Model can't target other models (with attacks, abilities, or items).

6 Berserk: Triggers for a model with the "Berserk" trait when it's put in critical condition. Gains bonus movement range, moves, attacks, attack damage, and actions per round. Has the remainder of its' life to go out in a blaze of glory, falling dead on a hill of corpses. Healing a model with the berserk status removes the berserk status.

7 Insanity: For the computer, all models, including friendlies, are set to "hostile" for how its' threat assessment and friendly fire is on. For the player the computer gains control of the insane-status model and all models, including friendlies, are set to "hostile" for how its' threat assessment and friendly fire is on.

8 Bleeding: Damage over time. Sub-categories: light, moderate, and heavy bleeding. A light bleeding status ends after a short time on its' own. It represents a wound light enough to clot without medical assistance. A moderate bleeding status does not end until a healing affect has been applied. As the damage done is chip-damage, by design the application of a healing pack feels like a waste of a powerful aid, tempting the player/computer to delay its' application until more health has been lost. If sucessive moderate bleeding wounds are stacked or sufficiently high damage is done in a single strike by a weapon which causes bleeding than heavy bleeding status is inflicted upon a model. A model with heavy bleeding is bleeding out: its' strength (damage potential) is reduced, for every round it remains in heavy bleeding it has an increasing chance to fall down (technically suffering a knockdown affect), for every round it remains in heavy bleeding it has an increasing chance, less than that of falling down, to passout (technically suffering knockdown if that status isn't applied already; additionally suffering a stun status) and after a set number of sequential rounds with the heavy bleeding status applied a model will die. Bleeding affects reduce the duration of toxins.

9 Fire: Can be applied to both tiles and models. A tile or model with the fire affect takes damage, the amount of damage it's taking increasing every round. The more damage is being done to models adjacent to it and the more adjacent tiles are on fire, the higher the % chance (starting at 0) a tile or model catches on fire. By design this can result in, "well THAT escalated quickly..." situations where a player accidentally turns the entire map into an inferno, killing all the demons and all his party members or where a player must spend the remainder of a mission running away from the spreading flames to win. Each tile-type can only sustain a fire for a certain number of rounds before its' removed. Short grass for example could be on fire for 1 round and the following round will be recolored black from green. A tile which has already exhausted its' fire-duration has the "burnt" status applied to it under-the-hood and can not catch fire again. Likewise models, which char black upon death. The only action a model on fire may take is falling prone and rolling in an attempt to put the fire out or ending its' move in a water source. This represents fluff-wise how the model's in too extreme of pain to think about anything else but ending the pain of being on fire.

10 Toxin: Debuff applied to a weapon. If damage is done there's a percent-chance the toxin's applied. The greater the amount of damage done, the greater the chance of toxin application. Toxins have a set progress-per-round of their affect/s depending on type. Nicotine for example causes asphyxiation as the lungs are paralyzed and the rest of the body follows soon after. Round 1 after Nicotine's applied there's no difference but the skull-and-crossbones icon confirming the model has successfully been afflicted with toxin. Second round the model can't move as far nor take as many actions per turn, technically suffering from traits like "asthma" so he's easily winded. Third round he can't breathe, any actions taken have a % chance to apply a knockdown status as the model collapses, struggling to move his lungs. Fourth round has the conditions of previous rounds and partial paralysis: two-handed weapons and items can no longer be used, to hit and damage ratings are reduced, moves as if possessing the club-footed perk. Fifth round the model's completely paralyzed and has the knockdown status if it wasn't already applied. Sixth round the model's dead, regardless of remaining health. There could be many other toxins but ah like the theme of them being slow-working, progressively worse stacks of symptoms making the player/computer increasingly desperate to heal them or get some last use out of his model.

How long any of these status affects applies could vary so one item does "Stun 2", stunning for two rounds, while another does "Stun 1" stunning for one round. It'd be lamer to've a fixed duration for every status that never varies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just finished watching Friday's livestream and the idea of the Arbalist's crossbow being a bazooka makes me glad I backed this game.

It reminds me of something similar and equally brilliant. Have you guys seen Afro Samurai? There's a character that has a semi-automatic crossbow...with a grenade launcher.

photo arrows_and_grenades_and_stuff_zpsdd4c3259.jpg

Seems like a good basis for an Arbalist/Alchemist

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I was committing a think in the shower (which is like thinking, only more nefarious) about all the details we had learned about the Massive Chalice itself and how the faces formed by the negative space would speak to one another. This got me thinking about other inanimate objects talking, and for some reason my train of thought transitioned to Caberjacks before finally remembering a chat user's use of the word "bardbarians." And then an idea struck:

What if the rams that Caberjacks carry were crafted from totem poles (simple ones, maybe like a few Easter Island Moai heads stacked on top of each other) that sealed away the souls of dead bards. Maybe between three or five of them per pole. In battle, they'd sing shanties or cadences to help the Caberjack make the work of swinging and carrying a ram seem easier. None of that "my songs are making you stronger because magic" junk, they just lay down a solid rhythm for the Caberjacks to work with.

Why are the souls of dead bards being sealed away in totem poles? Because a demon bard sang a song that got stuck in the Massive Chalice's head (heads?) and it echoed for decades before it cracked and shattered, which leads us to the start of the game. It was a song so catchy that it nearly brought about the apocalypse. To prevent such an event from ever occurring again, anti-bardic laws were put in place. And maybe in times of peace or between demonic incursions, Caberjacks team up to hunt down bards throughout the land, battering down the doors of inns and taverns whenever the sound of pretentious crooning creeps out through their windows. They'd be like an anti-bard secret police.

Or maybe bards are just really, really unpopular.

Or maybe the bards just volunteer. The world may never know.

For the purpose of illustrating the kind of singing that the totems would do, I poked around and found a few shanties that seem to have the proper tone. If one were to go to YouTube and query for The Dreadnoughts best sea shanties, then one might find a video by someone who calls themselves LiLLo Reiz (whatever that means) which contains four (FOUR!) shanties. I'm not sold that a Caberjack would want to listen to something like the first one (called Old Maui) in the middle of a fight, but that still leaves three (THREE!) shanties that they very well might. Refer to the video description to find the start points of each song; there's quite a gap between the third and fourth. As a word of caution to those who plan on playing these songs on speakers at full volume where delicate ears may hear: they were written before political correctness was a thing. Roll the Woodpile Down also has some pre-song banter with a curse word beginning with "tw," which is why I'm not posting directly to it. Now you can't blame me if you watch the video and get fired or your significant other leaves you. In any case, the lyrics themselves aren't really relevant, as those bards probably wouldn't be singing about sailing or steamboats on a battlefield. Heck, they might wind up singing in Simlish. This is purely a brief exploration of the other elements of those songs (such as tempo and the way the voices work together.)

If you want to get crazy about it, you could probably synch an attack animation to a song's beat. Consider Randy Dandy-Oh's first lines:

Now we are ready to head for the Horn,

Way, hey, roll an' go!

For the first line, we'd maybe see the target demon attempt to attack the Caberjack first, only to have the effort blocked or dodged (which can probably be done with the default animations.) Then it's Way (hero readies his ram,) hey (hero rocks the ram back,) roll (smack) an' go! (reset.)

If you want to get even crazier about it, you could probably adapt the same animation to songs with different tempos by synching X number of frames to each beat per minute.

If you want to reach the zenith of craziness, you could get members of the dev team drunk and have them sing whatever gets written up. It doesn't have to sound great if the singers can belt it out real good.

Now, I know that the concept phase of the Caberjack is pretty far along (or at least it seems to be) and that you guys might have something different in mind for it, but maybe this could be something for the Vanguard-Caberjack hybrid class if the whole whistle/rattle thing doesn't work out. I also recognize that this idea might be too ambitious between the songwriting, recording and animations and that it'd take too much focus away from other aspects of the game, but I still felt compelled to put this out somewhere anyway. If that's the case, I'd like to shrink this suggestion way down and say that maybe the demonic variant of Caberjack weapons could be a totem pole painted in the demonic color palette.

Basically, totem poles. That's all I'm really getting at.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, so i've scanned through this topic and tried to catch up on all the major ideas, but one thing nobody seems to have brought up (or they have, and i scanned too quickly) is the possibility of demonic sex. (HUEHUEHUE)

If we have the idea of the demons being a personification of time, then i think it's quite logical to have FATHER TIME himself as sort of the "Satan" of these Demons. He doesn't need to be fightable, although it can't hurt to have an epic bossfight at the demon capital with him, but he could be just like a piece of the demon mythology, he is the original demon from which all others decended, that he is more an asexual, self replicating entity than an actual "he", but he has a beard or something and if you squint he kind of looks like a really fat, hairy, giant, mutated man, so he has always been reffered to as a he of sorts.

Okay, so now onto the next part, which i'm REALLY excited about, being the twisted man i am. Human/Demon interbreeding. Maybe, one of the forgetfullness-demons could be an asexual succubus-type demon who has the power to "corrupt" a humans fertility when their health is extremely low. The demon "heals" your hero back to about half of his/her health, but when he/she has a child later on, the child runs a risk of having demonic features and/or horrific mutations!

And speaking about mutations... Do you think "standard", real-life mutations will be making an apperance in Massive Chalice? Like for instance, Albinism?

(GAME OF THRONES SEMI-SPOILERS INCOMING!) One of my favourite characters in A Song of Ice and Fire is an albino, his name is Brynden Rivers, and while i won't go into detail on his whole epicness here, i WILL post a picture of him HERE:

Bloodraven.jpg

What do you guys think? Albinos, yay or nay? And of course, there's the opposite of albinism, melanism! Google for pictures of it, it's really cool!

Some feedback on my thoughts would be great, from what i've seen in this thread you guys have been thinking about classes like CRAZY, so i'll just say GOOD JOB EVERYONE, but as for myself, well... I'm more into genetics, mutations and hybrids as you might have noticed. :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hoo-wee. Been out of the loop for a few weeks, came back to see all the class definitions. Whee.

Thoughts:

It seems like they've got everything nailed down to 4 classes now, which is a bit of a shame because the fisherman-demonologist is a winning and flavorful combo. I don't see any equivalent in the "final four" of the ranged melee + net skillset in the current class set, though I suppose you could fake a similar effect with an alchemist and a caberjack working together.

Love the fact that all these sets of classes are tied vaguely to real-world occupations like lumberjacks and hunters. Also love the fact that there are NO MAGES. Yes. Farm powers equally out across roles, leave the alchemists as the scholar / fireball class.

Interesting to note: The 4 classes map directly onto the 4 "party roles" in 4E D&D - vanguard = leader, arbalist = striker, alchemist = controller, caberjack = defender. Awesome. With these, you can form a valid party.

This also means:

Vanguard (Leader)

Natural role: Primary healer, support, party buffer and tactician. Lower end of the direct damage scale, but should pack lots of dirty tricks like the ability to move units around out of turn as well as provide strong healing and support. Should increase the effectiveness of nearby units when fighting shoulder-to-shoulder in groups.

Arbalist (Striker)

Natural role: High DPS but fragile lurker. Stealth skills synergize beautifully to create a rogue-ish class without being "that sullen guy in the cloak". Should be able to get Combat Advantage in various ways for high chances to hit - like striking from hidden. Because the arbalist is going to be standing still and hiding so often and because they lack close-combat options, some kind of fusion with the falconer concept is a natural and awesome idea for indirect damage, scouting, defense and marking.

Alchemist (Controller)

Natural role: Handling large groups of weak mininos, vectoring status effects, powerful single-target enemy disabling and lockdown. The alchemist's job should be battlefield control and AOE attacks - not necessarily big single-target damage, but definitely preventing the monsters from running the game they want to run and making sure the party runs the fight THEIR way. Glue, smoke bombs, terrain effects, walls of ice/thorns / clouds of acid etc. Synergize with the arbalist rogue for tripmines and sneaky plantable booby traps.

Caberjack (Defender)

Natural role: Multi-marking tank with tons of HP, drawing enemy fire, serving as arrow shield and plugging corridors. Specializes in standing ground and keeping the damage from the other characters. I'd like to see skills like knockdown, impassible zones, forced movement and stunning from a swift club to the head and a very wide threat range focusing on op attacks that makes enemies have to take the long way around or risk being stopped in their tracks with a tree trunk of a man.

Builds / skill path trees I would like to see:

Vanguard:

- Brash leader (vanguard caberjack hybrid?) High HP leader specializing in leaping into the fray. Charges into battle to duel particularly strong enemies mano-a-mano, may have abilities that prevent enemies from disengaging while granting pile-on bonuses to all other heroes who assist the vanguard when a foe is so engaged

- Tactician leader (pure vanguard) can grant off-turn movement to allies or movement that doesn't provoke attacks to fellow teammates. Strong healing through "inspiring" word powers. Can help other allies throw off debilitating status effects, rouse people who are stunned or petrified. "Lead the attack" abilities. Dirty tricks through overwatches.

Arbalist:

Falconeer - Arbalist who specializes in the falcon half of the tech tree - leveling up the bird to do things like provoke free shots for enemies who enter the bird's area of sight, stunning/stopping falcon swoop on enemies who charge the arbalist while he's trying to hide (allowing a turn to flee) and the ability to trigger certain effects from the bird's origin square rather than the arbalist's. Allows the falcon to see invisible / hidden / concealed foes for overwatch hilarity.

Camoflagued Hunter - Arbalist focusing on camoflague and doubling down on lurking. Gets huge bonuses to crit while cloaked, and ultimately the ability to fire once per round and /or move without becoming uncloaked.

Chemist Assassin (arbalist alchemist hybrid) - Who loves shooting glue arrows, explosive arrows and toxic bolts that poison or debilitate foes from a long way away? This guy.

Alchemist:

Terrain master: Zones of fog, walls of fire, pits of acid. Can freeze water with thrown ice potions to create temporary ice bridges and do blast damage and slow groups of charging zugs. Can throw up poison clouds to block line of sight and flush irritants out of hiding. Uses potions to alter the map and create areas of cover or difficult terrain.

Single-target Controller: Specializes in whipping potions at single targets to lock down and neutralize major threats. Can do things like slow (glue) poison, stun, immobalize or in some rare cases use hallucinatory drugs to dominate or provoke berzerk or confusion status on a single foe, removing them from the immediate threat and potentially doing damage to the enemy line when they flail crazily.

Potion medic (Vanguard / Alchemist hybrid) Potions that buff or heal allies, create areas of stim gas, create safe zones free from demon influence, etc.

Caberjack:

Living fortress- build focusing on op-attacks and wide sweeps of the caber to defend particular zones. Can be placed as a threatening presence at choke points, able to stop or halt guys who try and slip past with. Maybe they can plant the caber horizontally on overwatch to create a physical wall 2 squares across which cannot be crossed by demons while the CJ is alive. focuses on drawing aggro, marking lots of enemies of people and provoking the bad guys to gang up on the CJ in melee, drawing smaller minions close to the caberjack, then spinning them aside with huge sweeping cleaves.

Furious bludgeoner (vanguard / CJ hybrid) - Single-target bull rusher. Can stun, drive back or and knock prone single targets with directed thumps of the log, allowing strong single-target control. High HP. Charges into battle and can potentially activate powers that minimize or nullify piddly melee damage below a certain threshold for a round while under the influence of caber rage. Has a passive that lets them keep fighting for a turn even when reduced to 0HP. If they win the fight they collapse exhaused but alive rather than die. "Angry scotsman" + barbarian rage = good times.

Missilejack (Arbalist caberjack hybrid) - Able to use various powers to provoke and lock down enemy ranged attackers. Can plant the caber in the ground like a totem pole and hide behind it as portable cover. Uses taunts and other abilities to draw out ranged fire while hiding behind the pillar, soaking out overwatch actions and freeing up other characters who might otherwise be threatened by enemy missiles. Might be able to use some arbalist-fu to hurl the caber as a ranged weapon. Might synergize with arbalest stealth to create ewok swinging log trap or rolling log trap from hiding.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really liked the idea of the BattleSmith, but with quite a different idea then most people here.

I would imagine him as a self-buffer.

His skills would manifest themselves as buffs in battle, like more damage, better defense and those sorts of things.

Now the point is, he would need to make those improvements for himself, so that would take time.

Maybe activating one ability would leave him unable to move, attack and defend and can only be activated if he has taken no other actions that turn.

So that would leave you with the obvious choice, do you keep him back and fight with only 4 dudes while he works on improving himself and come in a lot later in the battle as a massive tank or do you send him out with the others and hope he will do good enough without those improvements or finds time to work on his abilities while the others distract the enemies.

Like maybe a MtG creature that has "tap to put a +1/+1 counter one it". Do you use him as is, or do you wait a turn and make him stronger.

Just some thoughts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No love for the War Tailor or Bierzerker? You guys are no fun...

so with four classed confirmed i think the next topic of discussion should be abilities! what are they!

in the team-stream about skills they said that hero skills wold be on a tree like in X-com. so each class would have 2 parallel skill options every level and at the end of the tree an ultimate skill

and each hero would have access to his primary classes full skill tree and a smaller special tree for his secondary class.

when a hero levels up he may choose a primary class skill or a secondary class skill (if 5 levels then 5 skills max)

eg: an alchemist and a caber jack have separate skill trees but a primary caber jack and a secondary alchemist would have access to a smaller hybrid specific tree. a alchemist primary and a caber secondary would have a different special skill tree.

i quickly madeup these skills. but i am sure people can make up better ones. what skills do you think classes should have and what skills should hybrids have? let the discussion BEGIN!

Skills like that "you do more damage now" one for the Caberjack are the sort of non-abilities I'd declare "lame sauce" if they're put into the game. Other ideas you have, like a container of bees for the alchemist, are very amusing and would give me fonder sentimental memories of the game. Could function like a silence spell: demons can't use their abilities while covered in bees because those tiny stingers keep distracting them. How old are you?

I would imagine him as a self-buffer.

There's no "i" in team. Ah'd much rather have abilities designed to complement one another and have synchronicity across classes than classes which function as islands onto themselves. Keep buffering yourself and you'll go blind.

Also, we already have a tank in the Caber; the battlesmith needs his own niche.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some repeated ideas an things to keep in mind

1

Arbalist + Falconer = Ranger. You just recreated the Hunter from WoW. An archer with a pet. The classes are supposed to be more original/unique and the teams development of the idea of a crowwbow as akin to the Heavy's rocket launcher ah'd say's a move in the right direction. You could have fireworks shots, heavy mini-trebuchet bolts, and a duality dynamic between how you play an arbalist when you're planning to use his javelin-launcher vs when you're planning to use his default weapon.

Having a Falcon is flavorful yet not enough to define a whole class worth of abilities. Rather than a Mordecai wannabe, it could be combined with the demonologist (demon falcon?), thrown-aside roma (circus falcon!) or even less apparent pairings like the War Tailor to give him more character.

2

Unless ah'm forgetting something/s, the Caber isn't the tank class you promised yourselves was coming. X-com didn't really have a dedicated tank class meant to take punishment for the whole part. Ah'm against such a role. Every class should have to carry its' weight and be equally under threat of death. A guy who's going to eat demon hits like they're nothing makes them less impactful and combat more boring: like 20 min of chewing through a boss's health in a JRPG or MMORPG.

3

Sticking all our cool ideas on the alchemist makes him the reincarnated once-removed wizard class and leaves the other classes comparatively boring. Lets take our weirder concepts and those which shake up combat more and incorporate them into other classes.

4

The defined roles of the classes so far is

Vanguard: 1-target melee dps

Alchemist: AoE ranged dps.

Arbalist: Single target ranged dps.

Caber: Think they were still figuring that out.

Brad felt they had to fill a lancer type role: have a character who attacks multiple squares in front of him and acts in the midrange. The caber could possibly fill this role already. Rather than designing each class to fit mechanics existing in other tactics games it'll be more fun to think-up mechanics based off characters and develop the interplay between hero and demon combat abilities through testing.

5

We can merge class concepts. Instead of figuring out Nth ways for a guy to use a chain, it could be the whip-cracker is also a demonologist, chanting a liturgy which causes a demon within x squares of him to respawn from its' map starting location, postponing when it needs engaged yet healing any damage or negative statuses it took. Combining class concepts can make the classes into better-rounded characters with more varied suites of abilities, rather than dudes identified by their weapon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brad! Stop lurking and let me know what the situation is on action points, turns, and action types (whether some are free, have cooldown, or allows you to use more than 1 action per round)!

What are you leaning towards?

If you only get one move and one action point and you can't affect the frequency of actions for a character through a stat like speed - or what abilities you choose to use, then the abilities operate in the realm of extremes as the unit of value used is a irreducable turn, which means power levels using turns as a unit to balance abilities use power values exactly to 1, 2, or 3 instead of power values of 1.5 with a turn delay, or 0.5 and ready to act later that round.

I'd like to know while messing around with class Ideas.

Also, could you reveal more specific roles for your classes? All I know about the arbalist is that it should be ranged, and the alchemist should be aoe, but the alchemist is ranged, too and could maybe enter a defensive stance to damage units that attack him.

For example, I was playing around with the arbalist having more roles: Tracker, trapper, stealther - reliability on positioning.

Playstyle relies on prebattle preparation, getting a vantage point, and cleaning up. Bad mid battle, good start and finish.

Stealth - The arbalist cannot be seen so long as she ends her turn a certain distance from an enemy, and does not attack an enemy in their field of view. Needs to leave the enemy's field of view and wait a while before entering stealth.

(Field of view refers to enemy facing direction.)

Tripwire - activating the ability allows the arbalist to set a trap between the point of activation and another she moves to. If used before moving, the distance of tripwire is increased. Crossing the tripwire causes a blade to shoot along the wire, causing struck enemies to tumble and take damage. Tumbled enemies cannot see the arbalist if she shoots.

Unseen Strikes - shots from stealth deal increased damage.

Aimed shot - sacrifices the chance to move to deal increased damage.

Take the shot - shots are easier to make based on how little an enemy has moved. (shots are faster to make / take less action points).

Signal: consists of different skills. - free action, has a cooldown.

Signal - The kill: If the arbalist kills a unit, allied units that have recently attacked that unit can move a short distance.

Signal - hawk: Hawk attacks a target and causes it to receive more damage. Does not break stealth.

Signal - joint operation: applies stealth to a target. Same rules apply, but if either is detected, they both are.

Eye in the sky - Sends hawk to scout a large area for the arbalist.

Track - as soon as the arbalist has detected an enemy, she knows where he is at all times.

Silent dead - Whenever the arbalist kills a target, she remains in stealth.

Safety first - shots that have to pass through squares with allies in them deal reduced damage. (better option; requires more action points/time to make the shot).

Twisted shot - Allows shots to be fired around terrain that might otherwise block it, but deals reduced damage.

(ability can be used to remain stealthed while shooting, as terrain blocks sight.)

Initiative - The arbalist can move and use one non-aggressive action twice. Attacking cancels the effect.

(I just feel like the arbalist needs it in the beginning, can either only happen at the start of the turn, or have a large cooldown.)

Mercy killing - deals more damage the less health the enemy has.

Playstyle: can hide behind allied lines to safely shoot continuously, or can criss cross the battlefield with tripwires, while looking for a good vantage point and continuously get stealth shots from behind enemy lines if enemies don't look in the direction of the arbalist.

Class Synergy: Can get some free shots on enemies that trigger tripwire. Can also cut enemies off from the rest of their team. Gives a pack-hunter and prey feel to the playstyle when the arbalist stealths a vanguard to joins with taking out stragglers.

Hybrids: the opportunist I mentioned earlier in this thread hybridizes well with all the other classes; the caberjack allows him to build stacks on multiple opponents, which is very strong, but at the penalty of not getting a lot of use of the opportunists mobility and blitzing gameplay, at least not simultaneously.

The opportunist goes well with the arbalist as he can remain stealthed while building stacks, and can keep setting traps throughout the fight, and has bigger finishes as well as further emphasizing the ranged part of the opportunist's playstyle.

The alchemist can apply stacks from a distance but is more risky to actually bring into range for a strike,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a refinement of the class ideas from yesterday, condensed into a unified post that has an idea for each primary class any hybrid class. I tried to come up with hybrid classes that were different from one another, and which combined the roles of leader, striker, controller and defender as either their primary or secondary function.

In general, primary class is assumed to be "carrying the weapon" secondary class is assumed to be providing "the clothing and armor"

This is just my first pass at it. Please! add your own ideas to the mix!

Vanguard (vanilla) [LEADER/SUPPORT]

Crafty tactician and powerful leader / support character. When close to the vanguard,all units benefit from wide-range weapon auras that convey commander bonuses to hit or damage. Tactical abilities can move other units into advantageous positions without provoking overwatch attacks or create auditory distractions to distract and confuse enemies. Motivating commands can snap units out of debilitating conditions like paralysis or petrification and can heal or grant bonuses at range to other allies.

Commando (Vanguard-Arbalest)

Leverages the arbalest's stealth and camoflaugue capabilities to create a pouncing melee lurker who is adept at leading a small team deep behind enemy lines. Big bonuses to attack and damage when springing on foes from concealment, at high levels can also grant concealment and camoflague to allies standing right next to the commando if nobody takes a move action.

Blade Chemist (Vanguard-Alchemist)

Augments close range blade attacks with debilitating alchemical poisons and potions from the shoulder flask. Delivers direct close range status effects like slow, blindness and confusion from poisoned blades. Can also use potions to deliver close-range cone-shaped alchemical blasts of acid or fire, giving the leader some measure of alchemist minion control at close range. Can sip from their own estus flask for strong self-directed healing mid battle.

Duellist (Vanguard-Caberjack)

Powerful single-foe control unit. Uses the brute force of the caberjack to create a bull-rushing assault leader who hurls themselves into battle against the strongest foe. Duellists lock down a single foe in melee combat, letting the other team pile on for massive damage. Enemies engaged by the duellist cannot easily disengage, and caberjack toughness and armor give the duellist the staying power necessary to finish the fight. Enemies engaged by the duellist grant enhanced damage and a much heightened crit change to all other allies attacking the same foe. Like the caberjack, the duellist can op-attack enemies who try to slip past at close range, acting as a sort of mini-defender if a caberjack isn't around.

Arbalest (Vanilla) [sTEALTH/DPS]

Shoulder-mounted crossbow RPGs for the win. Stealthy forest lurkers who use powerful shoulder balistas to inflict huge damage at long or medium range, especially from overwatch. Fast on foot but slow to reload arbalests come with a trained falcon who serves a dual purpose as a close-combat defender and observant scouting partner who can mark and follow enemies who try to hide from the arbelet's eagle eye, denying them cover and concealment

Bow Commander (Arbalest-Vanguard)

A long-range battlefield leader (think Robin Hood) who sacrifices some of the stealth and sneak attack capabilities of the arbalest for the vanguard's leadership and battlefield control abilities. Can "paint the bullseye" on foes with the red arrow, singling out a single target for massive damage from the rest of the team. At high levels has an overwatch ability that can allow multiple units to make simultaneous ranged attacks on a single target. Can use the falcon to deliver the vanguard's leadership aura(s) to critical zones where the bowmaster is not currently present.

Alchemical Assassin (Arbalest-Alchemist)

Strap a flask onto a crossbow bolt and deliver ranged AOE attacks far across the battlefield. While these arrows are not as powerful or large in terms of effect as a thrown flask, they are useful as backup minion control, delivering blast damage or choking smoke to places where the alchemist's fling cannot reach. Overwatch-readied glue arrows can immobalize a charging enemy in their tracks, poisoned or drugged arrows can vector debilitating toxins or incite berserk or rage statuses on far-away foes while the assassin lurks in safety.

Trapper (Arbalest-Caberjack)

Use the caberjack's wilderness skill and defender's arts to add to some close-range dirty tricks to the arbelest's long-range toolbox. Take this path if you want your arbelest to focus on creating stealthy survivalist-style ambushes like deadfalls, snares, rolling log traps and soforth that target individual enemies one-at-a-time, allowing a single arbalest to entrench a position with ewok-style hijinks. Unlike the chemical bombs employed by sapper, trapper ambushes do not automatically trigger when the first enemy approaches - they must be manually detonated (risky - means you're probably standing nearby) -- or remotely via the falcon while you lurk in safety. Demons trapped in snares make for excellent shooting targets. You're stealthy anyway, what could possibly go wrong?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

... continued from above...

Alchemist (vanilla) [MINION MUNCHER / ZONES / HARD CONTROL VIA STATUS AILMENTS]

Minion masses and clumps of weak enemies are a problem no longer with the alchemist's powerful ranged area-of-effect attacks. Blast and burn tons of swarming zugs simultaneously with hurled flasks that explode with large AOE damage radii and create various zones and special effects at a distance. Acidic smoke that blocks line-of sight, oil and flames, caustic chemicals and more flush targets out of hiding and keep them moving out into the open. When single target hard control is required, use the alchemist's small-radius but hard-hitting status effect potions to poison, blind and immobalize foes. Level up single-target potions to inflict crippling status effects like sleep, unconsciousness, rage and berserk.

Battle Medic (Alchemist-Vanguard)

Swap out some of the death and destruction of the vanilla alchemist for a controller/support class who throws beneficial support effects with big AOEs along with their explosive canisters. Stim gas, remote healing, removal of status effects and other positive buffs can be easily vectored onto troops even if they can't be reached by other means. Elemental and corrosion protection can be conferred onto your units (and fire extinguishing etc. can be conferred onto flaming demons, causing great damage) through the use of counter-elemental and counter-status flasks. Have a tool in your toolbox ready to bolster your units against whatever you might face out there.

Saboteur (Alchemist-Arbalest)

Powerful trap master and sapper who combines the stealth of the Arbalest with the blast and burn stopping power of chemistry. Place fire or flashbang tripmines in strategic locations, laugh when foes walk over them. Leverage the arbalest's falcon ability to vector potions around the battlefield from on high, dropping alchemical bombs on foes with tactical precision. Create cave-ins with gunpowder packs. Unlike the trapper's wilderness traps the sapper's bombs and mines can hit multiple targets at once, allowing for mustard gas ambuscades, detonating bridges and other kinds of hilarity.

Eco-Manipulator (Alchemist-Caberjack)

What do you get when you cross a controller with a defender? A battlefield with terrain that always gives your heroes the tactical advantage. Use your thrown potions to turn your surroundings into living weapons and natural defenses. Hurl exploding ice flasks that slow your enemies and create short-term bridges over rivers. Collapse them with fire when demons try to cross. Grow walls of thorns with plant food that close off attack routes and cause damage to enemies. Cause cave-ins and difficult terrain with gunpowder, glue and acid. Throw down oil, creating a slick surface of difficult terrain, then light it up. Create difficult or slowing terrain, stone spikes and channels of death that the rest of the party can funnel bad guys into.

Caberjack (vanilla) [DEFENDER / TANK]

What has a threat radius of 15 feet and more hitpoints than an oak tree? A mountain man weilding a huge log. Caberjacks fill out the defender role, drawing enemy fire, getting up in the face of bad guys and plugging holes in your defensive line. The caberjack's habit of making reaction swings on the enemy's turn combined with their tendency to stun, knock prone and knockback foes and their wide threat area makes them the unit that can't be slipped past easily. Use battle shouts and roars to taunt enemies and draw aggro away from other units and onto someone who can take the hits. Turn the caber sideways and create portable cover for your troops or create an unpassable wall that stops enemies trying to swarm through narrow passages.

Ragejack (Caberjack-Vanguard)

Combining the defensive strength and high armor of the caberjack with the leader/support role and boss-lockdown potential of the vanguard gets you an indominable defender with side order of commander who refuses to be pushed, pulled, slid or put to sleep while charging headlong into battle. Pre-emptively pump yourself up with raging caber fury, stacking bonuses each round to hit and damage on your weapon until that moment when you finally release the hammer in one enormous hit. Benefit from passive abilities that fire at the start of every round confer damage immunity and minimize pain while leading the fight from the front. Caber fury regenerates lost hitpoints to prolong knock-down drag-out fights in your favor. Sacrifice some of the wide angle sweeps and area control of the vanilla caberjack for mighty single-target gut-punches and log swats, knocking prone and ringing the bell of powerful foes. Carve some musical grooves into the caber to project small-area faccimilies of the Vanguard's command auras, granting all allies that fight shoulder-to-shoulder with this a hefty leadership bump.

Mortarjack (Caberjack-Arbalist)

The mortarjack uses the arbalists' knowledge of ranged combat to create a defensive unit who fears no projectile. Portage the caber over your head like a canoe and create a zone of portable cover that protects you and close standing allies from death-from-above fireballs and hailstorms. Plant the caber like a totem pole and hide behind it, creating a zone of cover safe from enemy arrows and projectiles. Plant a charge inside the caber and fire your mortar halfway across the map for a big boom long range barrage. Once per fight of course. Use the arbalist's stealth and woodsy lore to lurk quietly in the forest as you plan your next assault. Even after you burn your mortar shot, the mortarjack can still hurl his caber a reasonable distance to create a medium-range missile attack. Who says you need a crossbow to take out that sniper lurking behind the front line?

Blastjack (Caberjack-Alchemist)

Maybe you can't actually hurl potions while carrying that huge log, but that doesn't mean you can't use alchemy actively in battle. Take a swig from your shoulder bag to grant yourself temporary fire, acid and petrification immunity and barrel through those enemy zones and acid clouds unscathed. After you charge through that wall of fire and shrug off the effects, throw down your caber to create a bridge for your buddies to follow along behind you. Strap gunpowder onto your caber to create a terrain-annhialating battering ram that can blast apart enemy fortifications like matchsticks. No enemy defense is safe! Use your caberjack shouts and taunts to lure groups of little zugs into surrounding you, then hurl an alchemical vial at your feet for a blast effect centered on the caberjack that flings baddies every which way. Your huge bomb suit and rediculous defense means that you can take it -- but can they?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

flowchart.png

So I had a meeting with Brad the other day regarding the hero classes and I don't want to speak too soon, but I managed to convince him to add bards to the game :D

Please no.

If the "Bard" is some tonal affects from the vibron sword, a guest appearance by Eddie Riggs, whistling to summon a Golden Eagle, an alchemist potion which causes a song to play as everyone's tripping, or a demon which attacks with guts-jellying screams that's fine.

But dedicating the 5th class to a bard instead of any of the cooler* ideas would be damn disappointing. Continuous mention of bards in quickstreams has just been for a giggle; we don't actually want the 5th class to be taken by Bard.

*battlesmith, war tailor, retiarius, roma, demonologist, beast tamer /+ with animal familiars and/or brewing for flavor

flowchart.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this