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It's ironic...

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I read a few negative posts here and on twitter from people complaining about how Double Fine handles its own game and all I have to say is the following:

Isn't it ironic that some backers who supported this kickstarter driven by the idea to make gaming studios independent of "evil" publishers now behave exactly like those? Demanding things and condemning Double Fine because they don't do things like they "should" be doing it according to individual opinions.

It's absurd. We all backed this game, because we trust Tim Schafer and Double Fine. And so it should be.

I wish I lived in world where everyone would reflect about his own behavior every once in a while.

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Yeah, I understand people being upset or confused, but Double Fine is making the game they want to make, the way they want to make it. That's what this whole thing was always about, really. It is a bit concerning. However, they've thought about this for a while and came to the conclusion that this is the best way to go about it. At the end of the day, once the game is out, people really won't care about any drama associated with the making of the game.

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What's absurd is how anyone on this board refuses to even have a discussion about it and blindly support everything DF does.

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What's absurd is how anyone on this board refuses to even have a discussion about it and blindly support everything DF does.
What board are you looking at? There's plenty of people who disagree and plenty of discussion about it. Discussion doesn't mean the people participating have to agree with each other. At the end of the day though, people backed this project because of their faith in Double Fine, and it seems weird that now that an actual problem has popped up, that faith is disappearing.

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...and blindly support everything DF does.

From my point of view this was part of the whole deal.

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Well to play devil's advocate; surely that is a grossly unfair comparison. Publishers demand creative control on content and hammer down unfair production timetables, forcing developers to make the game they think will be more marketable and make them the most cash.

Kickstarter backers on the other hand gave money to DF and said "go create the game you want to make", with only one string attached, just make the game. The game has gone way over budget, and in the eyes of many, over schedule. The impressive 3.3 million raised wasn't enough, given the scope of the game, and DF knew this well in advance. There is a limit to trust and it's not unreasonable for people to feel that their trust has been misplaced.

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I still have faith in DF's creativity, design skills and storytelling. This does shake my faith in their project management abilities, however, which is a bummer because that's a big part of getting a game made.

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Well to play devil's advocate; surely that is a grossly unfair comparison. Publishers demand creative control on content and hammer down unfair production timetables, forcing developers to make the game they think will be more marketable and make them the most cash.

Kickstarter backers on the other hand gave money to DF and said "go create the game you want to make", with only one string attached, just make the game. The game has gone way over budget, and in the eyes of many, over schedule. The impressive 3.3 million raised wasn't enough, given the scope of the game, and DF knew this well in advance. There is a limit to trust and it's not unreasonable for people to feel that their trust has been misplaced.

Sure, and I get that. However, Tim and the rest of the team wouldn't be trying this if they didn't think they could pull it off. That's what gives me faith, and why I'm so confused over other people freaking out as much as they have.

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Hmm. Yeah, I can see both sides of this. I think it's fair for customers to be upset - if they feel like a business isn't delivering a product they want - or in the manner they want it. And it's irksome to have to listen to fanboys (not accusing anybody) that think everything Double Fine does is the best thing ever - shouting down everybody else on the forums.

On the other hand, I think a lot of gamers are reacting the way they've been conditioned to react - by publishers who couldn't care less about the games they're making, but instead spend their days looking for ways to screw people over... It's easy to forget that Double Fine is NOT a publisher. They are just trying to make the best game they can and that's the way it should be.

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First post time. Please be gentle.

I guess most backers backed because they wanted a DF adventure game to be made. A lot of them backed, and some of those that did backed for a decent sum of money, because they wanted a *good* DF adventure game to be made.

Everyone's getting that.

Kickstarter isn't like preordering games a month away from release. These games don't exist yet. People aren't perfect, artists do art (I mean that is that anyway?) and software engineers spend a lot of time trying out things that don't work and playing Minecraft. This isn't just how game development works - it's how software development works generally.

Time bends. "That'll take around a month" says the engineer, who after a particularly inspiring pizza writes the feature in an evening. "That's easy" says the architect, emailing a one-line summary to an engineer who will then spend the next month working out how to implement some complex fuzzy logic AI that will be rewritten anyway.

Some of you wanted a peek behind the curtain - here it is, people. Everyone is still getting what they paid for, but development is hard, especially if you actually want to deliver something decent. This stuff happens all of the time - just usually not in public.

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Isn't it ironic that some backers who supported this kickstarter driven by the idea to make gaming studios independent of "evil" publishers now behave exactly like those? Demanding things and condemning Double Fine because they don't do things like they "should" be doing it according to individual opinions.

Yes, it is ironic. And, funnily enough, quite a few of those complainers didn't actually back the project.

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I've actually come to identify more with publishers. These are the sorts of risks they are exposed to and when they are dealing with large amounts of money, they want to make sure it is being used, in their eyes, correctly. So now, I can certainly understand more how a game studio would present something potentially worrying to an investor and them have to consider pulling funding. Not because they are evil, but because they are being realistic.

Now I'm not saying that if I was somehow a publisher for Broken Age and I saw this news about the budget I would call the whole thing off, but being exposed to this side of things does make me reconsider some of my opinions about publishers.

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It's obviously not the best solution and I don't think either Double Fine or the backers wanted to be here, being overbudget and having to search for an alternate solution. Still, Double Fine is doing what it can within it's means to protect our interests while working to continue their existence.

The up side is we'll get this game (which probably never would have happened otherwise), and hopefully Double Fine makes some money off of it and to be able to continue to make unique, creative, and different game experiences.

Also, currently listening to GameSpot Gameplay and Mike Bithell (creator of Thomas Was Alone) is adding his thoughts to defend Double Fine's decision. Tl;dr: Games often go over budget, it's fairly common, and he sees Double Fine as making the best out of a bad situation.

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I didn't want to say it amidst the discussion in other threads, but those have been my thoughts as well.

Even some of the reactions to things like the name of the game, or the first trailer, have surprised me a bit.

DF isn't immune from criticism. They've been completely open about things. But seeing people lose faith is a bit disheartening. They have a new plan and hopefully it works.

Shit happens sometimes. And it's important for backers to realize that they essentially gave DF freedom from publishers. They care about what backers think immensely, but at the end of the day DF has to make decisions based on their internal knowledge and process.

They can't show us everything, share every budget number, every decision, etc. Too many cooks in the kitchen.

Constructive feedback is good, but some of the doom and gloom has been a bit much. Let's not make DF's situation more complicated by making unfounded assumptions about what decisions they've made with the game or budget.

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Well, the way I look at it is this: You always have to deal with the emotional whims and expectations of fans. They are just deciding to put up with it sooner than they would usually have to. At least this way they don't have to put up with the whims of corporate money on top of that. Also, when this is all said and done, I'm confident that this will be a game that will be a popular example of why freaking out over a situation like this is completely unnecessary.

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I haven't seen a lot of angry posts here. I've seen disappointed and concerned ones and lots and lots of extreme overreactions to those posts critical of Double Fine. I think everybody here wants them to succeed, but some of us think that Double Fine should have designed the project in accordance with their budget. If they had only gone somewhat over budget/time, I don't think anyone would have a problem, but the shortfall was tremendous.

I backed the project because I wanted an adventure game, nothing more. I sought not to slay any "evil publishers." For the record, the game looks fantastic - I just hope they're able to finish it.

If your faith in the company and the project is totally unshaken and you think the way things are going is just fine, it's fine for you to say so, but all the hostility I've seen toward people who are disappointed and critical is unwarranted.

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I haven't seen a lot of angry posts here. I've seen disappointed and concerned ones and lots and lots of extreme overreactions to those posts critical of Double Fine. I think everybody here wants them to succeed, but some of us think that Double Fine should have designed the project in accordance with their budget. If they had only gone somewhat over budget/time, I don't think anyone would have a problem, but the shortfall was tremendous.

I backed the project because I wanted an adventure game, nothing more. I sought not to slay any "evil publishers." For the record, the game looks fantastic - I just hope they're able to finish it.

If your faith in the company and the project is totally unshaken and you think the way things are going is just fine, it's fine for you to say so, but all the hostility I've seen toward people who are disappointed and critical is unwarranted.

Go back a few pages in the thread where they announced the plan. Plenty of people were saying the game was already a failure. It was a little ridiculous.

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It's absurd. We all backed this game, because we trust Tim Schafer and Double Fine. And so it should be.

I don't disagree with the main point of your post, but...

Before this kickstarter, I'd never heard of Tim or Double Fine. I only heard of the project because I was backing a webcomic called Order of the Stick, which was running a (very successful) kickstarter at the same time.

I backed because I liked games like Monkey Island and Day of the Tentacle, and saw this as an interesting (and relatively cheap) way of getting to play a new one.I pitched in at pretty much the minimum level. I wasn't even all that interested by the documentaries (until I watched the first one when I found myself at a loose end one afternoon; cue archive binge; they're awesome!). The bargain price for a new game was offset by the risk involved; it may not happen (kickstarter projects sometimes fail), and if it did happen, who knows when it would come out and/or what it would be like?

Over a year later, I feel that I'm still getting a good deal. Whether DoubleFine feel the same remains to be seen.

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Isn't it ironic that some backers who supported this kickstarter driven by the idea to make gaming studios independent of "evil" publishers now behave exactly like those? Demanding things and condemning Double Fine because they don't do things like they "should" be doing it according to individual opinions.

Nobody is really acting like publishers (who simply don't act this way; this is how consumers act), but in any case it's quite natural for anyone who believes that publishers are an evil to be disappointed now. The point of Kickstarter as a replacement to publishers is to provide a financial alternative to funding games. If a company needs a lot of extra funding it means that Kickstarter didn't serve this purpose.

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You know what the most ironic part is if this was old way funded game nobody wouldn't even have known they extended their production cycle. And there wouldn't have been any reason to complain.

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It wouldn't have been funded the old fashioned way, and if it was it would possibly have been axed. And yes, people probably would not have known, and certainly would have cared much less (because they didn't put any money into it).

I don't really see anything ironic in how people behave. It's really the expected thing. The only potential irony I see is that Kickstarter was supposed to make DF freer to make the games it wants and it might end up more dependent on others for help. But that hasn't really happened yet, and Massive Chalice did succeed raising money, so there's a chance DF will survive and learn from this.

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I think everyone going into backing this probably has a good idea on what the risk entails. I don't really understand why there are people getting upset over something that doesn't really affect the end product that Tim envisioned, which is a great adventure game experience. We know that he and his team has be consistent to delivering this with past titles so I don't see why we are doubting them now. After all, that is why we backed DF in the first place right? Because we trust them to deliver based on past records?

Even if that trust is shaken, I think we should empathize as to what Tim and his Team is going thru. Firstly, I commend them for being forthcoming with us as this shows that Tim is genuinely and sincerely wanting to deliver to us what was promised, by hook or by crook.

Secondly, they have more at stake, more to lose if they don't deliver. We lose a couple of hundred dollars which can make back again in our next pay cheque. He and his Team loses credibility forever. I think that is worse.

Lets have a little more faith and root for the small independent game studio. This industry needs them for they are the ones that truly drives innovation. Sure they dun have a big bank vault full of money like some publishers do, but they do have heart.

Have faith.

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I don't really understand why there are people getting upset over something that doesn't really affect the end product that Tim envisioned, which is a great adventure game experience.

I don't understand the people complaining about the game itself (although I do understand complaining about having to wait), since we have no idea how it'd turn out. On a personal level I have no problem with what I got / will get vs. what I paid. On the other hand I'm upset about the possibility of DF losing money on this project.

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Thank you, sir.

I read a few negative posts here and on twitter from people complaining about how Double Fine handles its own game and all I have to say is the following:

Isn't it ironic that some backers who supported this kickstarter driven by the idea to make gaming studios independent of "evil" publishers now behave exactly like those? Demanding things and condemning Double Fine because they don't do things like they "should" be doing it according to individual opinions.

It's absurd. We all backed this game, because we trust Tim Schafer and Double Fine. And so it should be.

I wish I lived in world where everyone would reflect about his own behavior every once in a while.

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Wait, do I understand this correctly? Double Fine is pushing the boundaries of the game so that it is better and grander, are coming up with plans to fund this without recurring to publishers nor burdening the backers and instead of taking this news as is people are thinking that Double Fine is going bankrupt and that the game will not be released? I mean, I've seen posts all over the internet where it is said that Double Fine should just adhere to the original scope of the game as of the Kickstarter launch. Err... Don't people realize that if the company can't raise additional funds that's exactly what will happen? Seems like a press release for dummies is in order. Or am I the stupid one here?

I'm really confused, either way, as to why this has escalated so.

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It escalated because journalists didn't do their job correctly and relayed a distorted image of the actual circumstances instead. Giant Bomb seems to be the exception.

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It escalated because journalists didn't do their job correctly and relayed a distorted image of the actual circumstances instead. Giant Bomb seems to be the exception.
Destructoid posted the whole message and Game Informer's post about it was pretty neutral, though I wish they had posted the whole message.

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I don't think it is really fair to entirely blame lazy journalists for getting the wrong end of the stick. I mean, this situation is not a Good Thing, even if it is not exactly the Bad Thing that some sites/writers are reporting. But as Tim says pretty explicitly in episode 10, this situation is one of Double Fine's (and espeically his) own making; he designed too big a game, and then he (and the other decision-makers) pretty much ignored that problem until now. Well not ignored, but not properly tackled (I can't remember the exact phrase Tim used, but something like that). But the basic headline "Kickstarter millions NOT ENOUGH to make game" is an accurate, though not complete, description of the situation.

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Who would Double Fine rather have?

One publisher-sized backer or 90,000 backer-sized publishers?

:P

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Who would Double Fine rather have?

One publisher-sized backer or 90,000 backer-sized publishers?

:P

They'd rather have us ofcourse. Since the backers don't generally agree on anything, DF have little in the way of popular demand, in addition to having full control already.

This is how it should be IMO.

I like to see how this all works out, without publisher interference. I'll reserve my judgement for when Act 1 comes out.

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