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The Wolf Among Us

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The Wolf Among Us struck me as very well written.

And really, the lack of investigation gameplay (not quite accurate, there are a few spots where there are different outcomes depending on how you conduct the investigation of the area, particularly Toad's apartment) doesn't matter so much. I think it's a bit of a simplistic idea that just because you play an investigator, the gameplay has to be about investigation. I think it's the obvious choice, but it really depends what the game is trying to do.

Also, I actually like what Telltale has achieved with their less puzzly games. I love adventure puzzles as much as the next guy (well, the next guy on this forum at least) but it's not obvious that puzzles are always the best way to provide ... resistance in an adventure game (I hesitate to say challenge, because I think it's a bit of a loaded term). I find the choices in Telltale's newer games hard. Even though they're not difficult in the sense of there being a right/wrong choice, they are hard in the sense of having to think about what the best thing to say in a situation might be, depending on how I'm trying to handle the situation. And really, that's enough for me. That's enough for it to justify itself as a game rather than something that wants to be an animated film or whatever.

I probably would enjoy a Fables game where it was all crime investigation puzzle dense too, but I totally respect this approach.

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I would see it as an achievement if TTG would respect the intelligence of a certain percentage of the players already (maybe not theirs anymore). There certainly is a serious lack of investigation gameplay, in the scenes/interactions in those/conversations with characters. Your inventory and the items are used for nothing yet, you can't inspect anything apart from a small selection and predefined chunks, ... if you want to compare the game to let's say Serious Sam then i would say you've done a great job but comparing it to an adventure game or a game which treats you more like an intelligent being who also wants to be in charge, then it's rather disappointing.

I leave it up to your own game design interpretation why a Sheriff trying to solve a murder case shouldn't be more about in depth investigation. Dunno if you've ever played a detective game. As for the choices, i think offering choices, characters and all that is entertaining game play mechanic but also here it's all too mediocre and could be better written and offering more interesting consequences. I appreciate that things aren't as dumb as they were in TWD anymore but it's also less than what you could expect from such a game. Imagine the game mechanics would be as solid as the graphics, this would be an interesting game.

The game is designed for the masses, a large percentage of those aren't willing to use their brains, they want to progress, this way it's more satisfying if you watch someone over his shoulders how he's solving a case instead of that you have to do it on your own. I don't know what i should respect about this. It's a decision they've made by intention in order to sell more copies and the game is a result of this with all of its pros and cons.

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I would see it as an achievement if TTG would respect the intelligence of a certain percentage of the players already (maybe not theirs anymore). There certainly is a serious lack of investigation gameplay, in the scenes/interactions in those/conversations with characters. Your inventory and the items are used for nothing yet, you can't inspect anything apart from a small selection and predefined chunks, ... if you want to compare the game to let's say Serious Sam then i would say you've done a great job but comparing it to an adventure game or a game which treats you more like an intelligent being who also wants to be in charge, then it's rather disappointing.

I leave it up to your own game design interpretation why a Sheriff trying to solve a murder case shouldn't be more about in depth investigation. Dunno if you've ever played a detective game. As for the choices, i think offering choices, characters and all that is entertaining game play mechanic but also here it's all too mediocre and could be better written and offering more interesting consequences. I appreciate that things aren't as dumb as they were in TWD anymore but it's also less than what you could expect from such a game. Imagine the game mechanics would be as solid as the graphics, this would be an interesting game.

The game is designed for the masses, a large percentage of those aren't willing to use their brains, they want to progress, this way it's more satisfying if you watch someone over his shoulders how he's solving a case instead of that you have to doit on your own. I don't know what i should respect about this. It's a decision they've made by intention in order to sell more copies and the game is a result of this with all its pros and cons.

oh i love you telltale people and your video game snobbery. here is my impression of you:

"Mmmm, tut tut, this game is for the filthy masses. I don't know what I should respect about it. As an intelligent being I am disappointed. Hrrumph. Indubitably."

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Gladly i don't care about what you think of me or those TTG people. I do care about the content i consume in my playing time though.

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What I just don't understand is that why having challenge and puzzles is a more intelligent choice than not. Like the only intelligent thing you can do in a game where you play a cop is to put in lots of tricky crime scene investigation. Sure, maybe they could have made a game like that but I don't understand why their decision not to do that but instead make a game based around story choices and relationships between characters is less intelligent.

You're basically saying that the game is dumb because it doesn't have the sort of gameplay you like. Which is conveniently more 'intelligent'.

Again, don't get me wrong. I love those old games. Monkey Island 2 and Grim Fandango are huge games for me. Top 10, maybe even top 5. But I'm okay with there being other things, and I just don't get the argument that they're dumb. Less logically taxing, sure. But a) I don't see why all intelligent games need to tax the brain with puzzles and b) I rarely feel like the choices TWD or TWAU presents are over-simplistic, and it takes a lot of intelligence to craft scenarios in a story where the choices you make feel difficult.

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I like The Wolf Among Us and if Telltale is to go in the interactive movie direction I am glad it is this and not Jurassic Park...

I still miss the old Telltale as Sam and Max, Wallace and Gromit and Strong Bad are among my favourite games of all time and it is disheartening to know they probably won't continue with them...

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I like The Wolf Among Us and if Telltale is to go in the interactive movie direction I am glad it is this and not Jurassic Park...

I still miss the old Telltale as Sam and Max, Wallace and Gromit and Strong Bad are among my favourite games of all time and it is disheartening to know they probably won't continue with them...

I really did like Sam and Max, at least by the 3rd series where they seemed to get it down. My hope is that they'll still have it in them to make those. I know a lot of people who work at TTG are still very fond of that type of game. The will is there, and I wouldn't want them to completely lose sight of their roots.

In fact, I'm quite excited to consider what a more puzzle based TTG game might be like, nowadays.

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@SurplusGamer

Dunno if i understand what you're saying because it should be quite obvious that solving something more complex also involves more work/thoughts/intelligence/intuition/awareness from your side, right? I didn't say that basing a game on relationships generally is less complex but the way they've implemented it, is (relative to blabla).

I'm saying that the game ideally isn't what i would like to see from the game, in all the aspects i covered before.

They are more "dumb" because they don't challenge me as much and the way i would like to be challenged. You might describe it with being more relaxed as well but with TTG we're coming more from an adventure angle. Some of us expect a little bit more. As written already i find that the choices offered in TWAU aren't this satisfying, not from the amount of selections, not from what i would like to ask, not from the consequences, not from the time pressure, etc.

Is it an improvement compared to TWD? Yes

Is it what it, ideally, from my point of view, could be? Nope

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I like The Wolf Among Us and if Telltale is to go in the interactive movie direction I am glad it is this and not Jurassic Park...

I still miss the old Telltale as Sam and Max, Wallace and Gromit and Strong Bad are among my favourite games of all time and it is disheartening to know they probably won't continue with them...

This is, I think, how a lot of old-school Telltale forumites actually feel. I know I do.

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Does anyone remember the balcony chase in TWAU or this blue shattered window? There were a number of scenes were each pixel was rendered so carefully and beautifully but you had no time to actually look at them because the scene/angle only lasted for a few seconds (okay, that's generally an issue of fast moving action scenes or it was forced by the fucking conversation time pressure) but also because you had to take care of this stupid hud info, what a crap. All this work just for giving once a reflex input to the controller. Actually you need to watch/pause a playthrough afterwards to fully enjoy those scenes.

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I really did like Sam and Max, at least by the 3rd series where they seemed to get it down. My hope is that they'll still have it in them to make those. I know a lot of people who work at TTG are still very fond of that type of game. The will is there, and I wouldn't want them to completely lose sight of their roots.

In fact, I'm quite excited to consider what a more puzzle based TTG game might be like, nowadays.

At this point, I'm not really confident that they'll return to puzzle-centric games in the near future, at least as long as games like TWD and TWAU continue to be successful.

Up until they dropped King's Quest, I considered how they were going to handle that license to be pretty telling of what we'd be seeing from Telltale for the foreseeable future. If they made a King's Quest game, they'd almost have no choice but to make it puzzle-focused, lest they ended up with KQ/Sierra fans attempting to burn their studio down.

For a while, I was guessing that they'd use a TWD approach for mainstream licenses, and something more like how they handled Sam & Max and Monkey Island for licenses that were already entrenched in the old school approach to adventure games, but then they rather unceremoniously dropped the KQ license due to (if I remember correctly, and feel free to correct me on this if I'm not) it not fitting in with their current story-focused approach to making games, which dashed my hopes that they'd still make some more puzzley games every once in a while.

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I like The Wolf Among Us and if Telltale is to go in the interactive movie direction I am glad it is this and not Jurassic Park...

I still miss the old Telltale as Sam and Max, Wallace and Gromit and Strong Bad are among my favourite games of all time and it is disheartening to know they probably won't continue with them...

This is, I think, how a lot of old-school Telltale forumites actually feel. I know I do.

I honestly like either direction they are going the same, so my only real disappointment is that they won't do both and rotate between a "story driven" experience and a "gameplay driven" one or, heaven forbid, create a good game and story at the same time.

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I honestly like either direction they are going the same, so my only real disappointment is that they won't do both and rotate between a "story driven" experience and a "gameplay driven" one or, heaven forbid, create a good game and story at the same time.

Why would they do real adventure games when Star wars games make easy money. Oh wait wrong company, wrong decade.

I guess the distinction I make is that while I'd be sad if TTG never did a more puzzley game again, I feel like at least they're doing something worthy in its stead.

Obviously not everyone agrees, but a lot of people do. When LucasArts gave up on original titles and shifted focus hard to varyingly rushed out Star Wars games, nobody had fun. Not the fans, not the new audience because the games were regularly awful. Not the developers because anyone invested in the way the company used to run left. And not even the business guys in the end because as it turned out, that approach just didn't work out for them in the long term.

At least with TTG's current focus, they've never been so successful, they are getting critical acclaim unlike what they've seen before, and regardless of what any of us make of the approach, I believe the team is genuinely invested in making it work. So sure, I'd be sad, but if this is what TTG is now, and we don't see another more traditional adventure game from them, then at least they seem to be making that change for the right reasons, which are: the developers believe in it, people like it, and it's selling (since after all it does need to sell to work)

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Funny as you mention LucasArts. Thinking of the recent article about LucasArts, TTG found their own way of leaving many broken hearts but they did this more by staying in business. I guess no one needs the poorly crafted puzzle games they published in the end of their puzzle era but it would be nice to see solid crafted story/character driven games with less limitations now, no matter how many people are buying the current products already. It for sure doesn't help that there are a lot of people like hot out there and already being successful sometimes isn't the biggest motivation for enhancing your work. I do wonder how Grossman's mother in law deals with the time critical stuff, those playthroughs should be interesting to watch.

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I just don't think they're poorly designed. I think they're very cleverly designed. They just don't do what you want.

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@SurplusGamer

Could you give me some examples for what you consider to be very clever designs in the game?

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I just don't think they're poorly designed. I think they're very cleverly designed. They just don't do what you want.

I give them story design and world design for TWD and TWaU. I just don't see why I would want to play those games instead of just watching. They are too streamlined and offer no challenge for the player as opposed to a viewer.

Challenge in the form of difficulty isn't the only form of challenge, though. Emotionally engaging and making decisions and deciding how you would react is also a form of "challenge," one I think you underestimate.

It's true that both those games are really streamlined, but as I've said before, that doesn't change the fact that playing them is emotionally different from watching them for a large amount of people, including me. How should I engage with the lumberjack vs. how did bigby engage with the lumberjack.

They are certainly also enjoyable to watch though which is a perk, it's a game my friends can watch me play and enjoy doing so.

(For the record, I also would have loved to see King's Quest from TellTale. But really, guys, there is a lot of value to this direction as well.)

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There was no emotional challenge in TWD for me because I generally don't care what virtual characters think of me. At least not in these games when there is no chance that one of them will kill me resulting in a game over. It just will not happen.

So, I mean, what that sounds like to me is a failure to suspend disbelief, which is something all dramatic media asks. I donno, I can't make you project yourself into the game better, but that does explain a lot about why you wouldn't enjoy it.

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The reason I didn't care what they thought of me is that it doesn't actually change the game at all.

So like every other game then.

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The reason I didn't care what they thought of me is that it doesn't actually change the game at all.

So like every other game then.

Except without anything else to engage you.

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The reason I didn't care what they thought of me is that it doesn't actually change the game at all.

This. There is no difference in Kenny hating you and Kenny loving you. You get a different line here and there but you are still with him for some reason. Maybe because he was popular amongst the [del]forumite[/del] Communitymembers.

Doubt it. No one really liked Kenny.

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The reason I didn't care what they thought of me is that it doesn't actually change the game at all.

This. There is no difference in Kenny hating you and Kenny loving you. You get a different line here and there but you are still with him for some reason. Maybe because he was popular amongst the [del]forumite[/del] Communitymembers.

Doubt it. No one really liked Kenny.

I liked Kenny!

Anyway, I guess I just find there to be value in people liking me beyond them changing the course of my destiny in real life, and that carried into the game.

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Doubt it. No one really liked Kenny.

Go navigate the foru-communi-clusterfu-TELLTALE WEBSITE and read about all of the Kenny fanboys and then say that again.

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Doubt it. No one really liked Kenny.

Go navigate the foru-communi-clusterfu-TELLTALE WEBSITE and read about all of the Kenny fanboys and then say that again.

Google "and Kenny still hated me".

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I liked Kenny from a narrative perspective. He was a fair-weather friend prone to spiteful hypocrisy after the first episode, but I thought he was an interesting character.

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I liked Kenny from a narrative perspective. He was a fair-weather friend prone to spiteful hypocrisy after the first episode, but I thought he was an interesting character.

I thought most of the characters were pretty uninteresting and one dimensional, and didn't find myself caring much when anyone died.

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I liked Kenny from a narrative perspective. He was a fair-weather friend prone to spiteful hypocrisy after the first episode, but I thought he was an interesting character.

I thought most of the characters were pretty uninteresting and one dimensional, and didn't find myself caring much when anyone died.

Silly SHODAN, this is about the game, not the tv show :P

but seriously though, I enjoyed the story of the game and the characters and will gladly defend that part of the game, but that was the one thing going for it. That's why I'm iffy about getting Wolf Among Us knowing I'll probably never read the Fables comics/don't care too much about the world and certainly know the game itself won't be holding up my experience.

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Silly SHODAN, this is about the game, not the tv show :P

but seriously though, I enjoyed the story of the game and the characters and will gladly defend that part of the game, but that was the one thing going for it. That's why I'm iffy about getting Wolf Among Us knowing I'll probably never read the Fables comics/don't care too much about the world and certainly know the game itself won't be holding up my experience.

The story's better than the last season or two of the show, but the characters were not memorable at all. Here are a couple of the characters' entire personalities: "OMG MY SON, YEEHAW" "RAH I HATE LEE INEXPLICABLY" "I'm so dumb I can't turn on a radio" Feel free to join in and name the rest of the characters with the one thing that describes their entire motivation in every scenario.

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