Darth Marsden

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2 hours ago, Noname215 said:

Kinda makes me wonder why no one has ever gone after idubbbz. 

Probably because he didn't use it as a blatant insult like PDP did. IMO it's the intent behind PDP's use of the word that made it so bad.

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15 hours ago, MusicallyInspired said:

Not the first time he's said it, yet only now is it blowing up in the media. Typical.

It's actually not the first time that PewDiePie's racism is being reported by the media.

Disney dropped him from his MakerStudios contract due to his anti-semetic and racist jokes.

His YouTube Red Series was cancelled due to the racist and anti-semetic content.

He was also removed him from the Google Preferred Ads program due to racist and anti-semetic content.

Pewdiepie has a long, long history of racism and I'm not surprised at all that companies don't want to participate in monetizing his videos.

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Pewdiepie is not racist. That WSJ article was way overblown and used video footage of him making fun of the media using footage of him making Nazi jokes as if it were serious to prove that the media will use anything. They PROVED his point. The Fiver thing wasn't even a thing as far as I'm concerned. All of YouTube pretty well had his back on that. WSJ just wanted clicks and screwed over all YouTube content creators to get it. Next.

And you don't get to decide who consumes your content. You make your product and that's the end of it on your part. You can't get mad when someone streams it especially when you have a disclaimer on your website saying that anyone can stream and make money off of it. You also don't get to abuse the DMCA system because someone did something in a stream you didn't like that WASN'T EVEN A STREAM OF YOUR GAME.

Edited by MusicallyInspired

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I disagree with abusing the DMCA system.  Those are very dangerous waters.  What's next?  Getting people whom can't afford to fight to shut down because you disagree with their opinion?

Regardless, the dude is a real POS.  I have never.  NEVER.  Said that word in anger.  There is no excuse.  None.  That word should not even be in his vocabulary.  He HAS done this before and it wasn't a joke, it wasn't a witch hunt, it was him being a loser playing a CoD game and then trying to justify it by saying that it was a "cultural difference".  He's just an idiot.

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17 minutes ago, Johro said:

Regardless, the dude is a real POS.  I have never.  NEVER.  Said that word in anger.  There is no excuse.  None.  That word should not even be in his vocabulary.  He HAS done this before and it wasn't a joke, it wasn't a witch hunt, it was him being a loser playing a CoD game and then trying to justify it by saying that it was a "cultural difference".  He's just an idiot.

At least he has admitted exactly all of this himself in his recent statement video.

Edited by MusicallyInspired

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1 hour ago, Johro said:

I disagree with abusing the DMCA system.  Those are very dangerous waters.  What's next?  Getting people whom can't afford to fight to shut down because you disagree with their opinion?

This isn't abusing the DMCA laws at all.  Campo Santo owns their game material, they can claim to take anything down they feel misrepresents their game and their brand.   They don't want him to profit from their game, and they don't want to profit from his video commentary of their game.  They are perfectly within their rights to do that.

PewDiePie owns the audio commentary in his Lets Play, but Campo Santo owns the game footage.  It's akin to RiffTrax's audio commentary of films.  They don't release their audio commentary on video, but instead release it via digital audio formats, unless they get the rights to use the film footage, or it is in the public domain.

If PewDiePie were releasing audio to be synced with game footage, like RiffTrax, then, yeah Campo Santo would be abusing the DMCA laws. As it stands though, they're just doing what they feel they need to do to maintain the credibility of their game and their company, which is well within their rights to do so.

1 hour ago, Johro said:

Regardless, the dude is a real POS.  I have never.  NEVER.  Said that word in anger.  There is no excuse.  None.  That word should not even be in his vocabulary.  He HAS done this before and it wasn't a joke, it wasn't a witch hunt, it was him being a loser playing a CoD game and then trying to justify it by saying that it was a "cultural difference".  He's just an idiot.

Right. The problem is how easily the word came out of his mouth.  Only a racist would ever use that word, period.  It wouldn't even be in the vocabulary of someone who isn't a racist.  The same goes with his jokes about killing Jews, in particular his skit that contained the "death to Jews" sign.  That skit wasn't satire, it was just made for the shock value. No one who is not anti-Semitic would ever use a people who had been murdered in the millions as shock humor, especially not within the lifetimes of Jewish people who lived through that horror.

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The DMCA system doesn't just take down the video though.  A few strikes and you're done.  Gone.  It would be like you, not only losing your job, but being told you can no longer even work in your profession.  Furthermore, in the statement, they also encouraged others to do the same.  While I don't care if this happens to a guy like him,  where's the line?  Where does it stop?

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That's YouTube's takedown system, not the DMCA laws.  They are within their rights as a United States company to require another company that operates within the United States to remove a video that contains a video playthrough of their content on a channel that they feel misrepresents their game and their brand.

Besides, it's not actually that hard to get a turnaround of the three strikes rule if you contest it with YouTube.  I successfully did so on one of my YouTube channels, and the channel in question was used to post nothing but clips from copyrighted content that I don't own.

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It is a big issue with monetizing though.  Trust me on this one.  I'm friends with someone whom does it for a living.  While you can fight the smaller guys, companies like Nintendo and Sony are willing to take it to court, so Youtube ALWAYS takes their side.  They can no longer make money off Nintendo on the Youtube portion of their content and they fought a strike by Sony, only to have Youtube tell them that it is completely up to Sony.

The person I mention doesn't just play the games and stream them.  There's more to it, but it doesn't matter.

Edited by Johro

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22 minutes ago, Johro said:

It is a big issue with monetizing though.  Trust me on this one.  I'm friends with someone whom does it for a living.  While you can fight the smaller guys, companies like Nintendo and Sony are willing to take it to court, so Youtube ALWAYS takes their side.  They can no longer make money off Nintendo on the Youtube portion of their content and they fought a strike by Sony, only to have Youtube tell them that it is completely up to Sony.

To be fair, if the person in question makes Lets Plays or playthroughs of games, then the DMCA was warranted.  In that scenario, it's likely that Sony filed their takedown through the Entertainment Software Association body, which includes both Sony and Nintendo. Lets Plays and Long Plays and Playthroughs have been accepted on YouTube by most game companies, but that's just because either the companies that allow it are super awesome, or because they like the publicity, or both.  These companies are well within their rights to stop Lets Plays and Playthroughs from being uploaded, since they own the video content. The YouTubers who do Lets Plays and Playthroughs can't claim fair use, as they could a review, as reviews only contain snippets of video and/or audio from a game, and Lets Plays and Playthroughs contain footage of the entire game. Commentary is not a significant departure from the game itself.

It's been stated that the bigger companies file requests for YouTube takedowns via DMCA laws to protect their trademarks, which is completely understandable.  Trademark law is a tricky beast.  They could actually lose their trademark if they were to openly allow these videos, as trademark law in the United States requires proof that you continually actively protect your trademark.  The YouTube takedown notices supply the proof.

The best way around this is when monetizing content is to avoid copyright infringement as much as possible.  As my statement above notes, that's the reason RiffTrax supplies audio of their commentary when they don't have permission to sync the audio with the video.  Any Lets Player who supplied audio to be synced with player-supplied video wouldn't have any problem with DMCA takedowns.  Alternatively, they could only post playthroughs from companies that have outright stated that they allow Lets Plays, or get permission from the developers directly.  That's always the best way to go when you want to make money by commenting on someone else's work.

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Edit: I removed my post because I decided I don't want to be involved in this conversation anymore.

Edited by MusicallyInspired

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Oh. So this is what you're using the Telltale thread for now. Ouch. :P

The situation is pretty clear though. The privilege to make millions by superimposing your image and voice over footage from games you haven't created is immense. It is not a right. It is not what fair use means. The copyright strike says "this is our material, and we don't want it to be used like that". As such, DMCA takedown wasn't at all "abused" by Campo Santo, they used the youtube function in exactly the way it was meant to. Sean said it best when he tweeted that Kjellberg uses Firewatch to build his own brand. And Kjellberg's brand incorporates distributing and therewith normalizing casual racism and antisemitism to millions of viewers. Why in the world would developers just accept that? Out of fear that Kjellberg's fanbase would react in exactly the same way they did in fact react. With actual abuse. Review bombing, Steam forum spamming, and of course Valve as always doesn't give a runny ship. >:(

 

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They could have just asked him to remove them. That proves it wasn't all just about protecting their brand. This was a deliberate personal attack. An emotional decision. One might say made "in the heat of the moment."

Edited by MusicallyInspired

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sigh.   I don't disagree with them flagging it themselves.  It was the public spectacle and calling others to do so as well.

Is it right for one person to use their fame and social media to ultimately take away ones career.  It doesn't matter that I hate the guy.  If he wasn't a massive source of ad income, he'd be gone by now.  I don't dispute DMCA rights, I do think Youtube's system is extremely flawed though.  That's all I'm saying on the matter.

(ugh I really wish it was someone else.  I really really hate him and hate that this sounds like I'm defending him)

Edited by Johro

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On 19/09/2017 at 8:57 AM, Johro said:

It was the public spectacle and calling others to do so as well.

 

On 19/09/2017 at 7:23 AM, MusicallyInspired said:

They could have just asked him to remove them. [...] This was a deliberate personal attack. An emotional decision. One might say made "in the heat of the moment."

Definitely concede the "calling others to do so as well" point, but not so sure on the "ask him to remove" one. I mean, yeah, they could have asked Kjellberg to remove those videos, but even if they had plainly told him to take it down, they still would have come across as applicants only towards a person in power. And it would have opened the possibility of a counter-attack from Kjellberg's side. And that could have turned out worse than what we have right now. Sean needed to tell his story first, before Kjellberg got the opportunity frame it his way.

I don't disagree if some of you folks call Sean's actions emotional, aggressive, an attack. I do think that one day Kjellberg had to deal with this understandable reaction to his bullship one day anyway, the one instance of a developer openly rejecting his crap may even be beneficial to the kid's development, and I don't think you can or should talk about racism and anti-semitism without the kind of aggressive emotion that Sean has shown.

(That youtube's system is beyond repair kind of goes without saying. Oh the videos Jim Sterling has made just about exactly that clusterbuck. But it's one thing to say the system sucks, and it's another to say the system was abused. It wasn't abused).

Edited by Vainamoinen

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Ok, fine. Replace "asked" with "told." That puts him back in power. Even a threat is better than just going straight to the DMCA. The way he did it was just....similarly childish.

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So the forum went back to pretty much the way it was pre-sept 2013... and everyone is losing their shit over it.

If I smoked, I'd have lit one up and laid back.

The fireworks are amazing.

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And I see that people are upset about the change, especially losing their "likes"?

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Yeah... They're bringing them back though.  The "I refuse to use quotes" people are the majority still.

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The irony of my enjoyment is not lost on me either.  Just, for once, the tree is falling towards my neighbour's house.

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On the moderation side, it's super awesome to have linear comments again.  Moderating threaded posts was a nightmare, since if you flagged the first post in a thread, every single post under that thread would be removed from view too.

Between the forum changeover in 2013 and some point into 2016 I was feeling like I didn't want to be a moderator over there anymore, but the web team and community team they have now is super awesome, and they take moderator and user input into consideration. It really feels like 2012 again over there again in terms of staff to moderator and staff to user involvement.  It's awesome stuff.  I'm glad I stuck through it. :D

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https://www.polygon.com/2017/11/7/16619444/telltale-games-layoffs

Quote

In a statement, Telltale said the decision to lay off staff is design to make the company “more competitive as a developer and publisher of groundbreaking story-driven gaming experiences with an emphasis on high quality in the years ahead.”

Quote

Telltale also said it plans to move its internal development “over to more proven technologies that will fast-track innovation in its core products.” The developer didn’t specify which technology it will be pursuing, but Telltale has received criticism for the technical performance of its products for years.

:(

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I really do think that it had to happen.  Not through my own desire, but through necessity.  Telltale isn't the same Telltale Games and they hit a wall trying to grow and remain current.  It's dangerous out there and playing in your own little sandbox will only get you so many more friends.  In 2011 when they made... The Change, I knew it wouldn't be a one step process.  They were going to fight to be a player.  They wanted more.  This is just the next step.  We'll see what the future holds now.

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Is Dan Conners or whatever his name is still running Telltale? Is there ANYONE left from the beginnings?

Edited by MusicallyInspired

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I think they have various alumni left, but no notable names come to mind at the moment. Laura Perusco also left a while back on Maternity Leave, which was eventually upped to her leaving altogether (I initially thought she was one of the people laid off).

I hope they take the opportunity to innovate on gameplay and be less complacent in that department. Johro makes some good points.

EDIT: Dan Connors stepped down a while back. For a while, Kevin Bruner was CEO, but he was recently replaced earlier this year with Pete Hawley.

Edited by Blind Sniper

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The founders are no longer part of the active management.  Troy Molander left way back in 2007, Kevin Bruner stepped down in March of this year, and Dan Connors temporarily stepped up from the board of directors to take the role of CEO again, then Dan Connors stepped down in September.

Out of the original crew that was there from the very beginning, from Telltale Texas Hold'em onward, only Jonathan Sgro, Randy Tudor, and Kim Lyons are still there.

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So Job Stauffer seems to be out, and I'm not sure even Shaun Finney is still in...

...I'm effing pissed that Laura is out. That would illegal over here, to my knowledge.

The company has experienced unhealthy growth and growth pains these last six years, and many of you have been witness to the side effects. Not sure how I feel about so vocally and massively scaling back though. They are still hell bent on continuing their path of "story driven, episodic games" that has scared so many of us away. I still wish them all the best, I just don't know who "they" is any more. :ph34r:

In any case, hilarity will ensue one way or another. At the very least, Telltale is always good for interesting headlines.

And no way are they going down. Their war chest should be bursting by now.

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31 minutes ago, Vainamoinen said:

So Job Stauffer seems to be out, and I'm not sure even Shaun Finney is still in...

...I'm effing pissed that Laura is out. That would illegal over here, to my knowledge.

Shaun Finney left around early last year.

I actually found out Laura voluntarily left a month or two back as well.

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