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Bartosh

Pirates Docking = Gameplay Breaking?

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Maybe just me,

but the pirates locking their ships to your station seems kinda gameplay breaking.

The fun of trying to build a base to survive ridiculously hard conditions like Dwarf Fortress seems to be the core game idea.

However, when pirates show up and effectively build your base for you, it really lowers the stakes, along with hindering your creative designs.

Always having to trim your base with builders like some kinda bonsai tree if your trying to make a neat looking base.

Possibly have hostile ships scuttle themselves if engineers can not deactivate some sort of main Computer/Generator self destruct in time after all hostiles are killed. destroying the ship but leaving X amount of floating matter to be collected.

Or just have some kind of room take over system like Startopia. so its not as simple as just killing 3 guys to get a free base 2x the size of my current one. fully equipped.

I’m just spit-balling,

But I didn't see any future plans that would mitigate this.

or am i just missing the point?

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Disregarding the constraints of the game it seems like ideally I would remove whatever mechanism they docked with. Then you could nudge it off into space or shoot your magnificent space lasers at it or whatever. I realize that would be a bit hard to do when everything is mapped to a discrete grid.

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Actually I would like to see pirate ships sort of like how the new crew ships drop crew off. Make them a object that docks instead of build rooms and after you defeat the pirates you can have your security 'take over' the ship. Then you can demolish it for matter like you do the Seed.

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@ RoboHamburger

I think the pirate thing kinda points to a fundamental problem of having objects in space locked to a grid.

it looked like it worked fine in the initial fortnight game. since everything was simplified and reality was abstracted.

But now that it has nice graphics, things not slowly drifting around in space seems odd. as if the whole thing is a mod for a terrain based game.

Idealy:

Each Group of connected terrain would have its own array. so everything can drift around and bump into each other. New asteroids and derelict ships could drift into the game area, and replenish matersorces. and meteor strikes could just be the chunks of rock that bump into the station.

With space just being empty space. devoid of any grid.

If that were the case, pirate ships and other such things could actually "Fly" around.

They would all need to be shaped without any cardinal direction, like ufos. to avoid yaw rotations. but it would work.

But thats a REALY REALY big unrealistic game-engine changing proposition. Pathing and basically everything would probably need to be changed.

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@ Saice

Sounds more reasonable, but i’d hate to see the ship interior combat go. It was the highlight of the game for me so far.

Maybe most pirate attacks are smaller single sprite ships, with only “Pirate Capital Ships” docking, which would be a much less common occurrence, but a much bigger deal. so the reward of a ship worth of stuff would feel justified.

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Sounds more reasonable, but i’d hate to see the ship interior combat go. It was the highlight of the game for me so far.

Maybe most pirate attacks are smaller single sprite ships, with only “Pirate Capital Ships” docking, which would be a much less common occurrence, but a much bigger deal. so the reward of a ship worth of stuff would feel justified.

You could still have some simplified internal spaces on these if need be. Right now as they stand they are not even functional or logical rooms now. So you could still have 3 or 4 spaces and still have ships around the size they are now. Just with they tied up inside a object. Think something like FTL ship layouts. They would have there object graphic and all the rooms would fit inside that. When demo'd the whole mess would go away.

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I couldn't disagree more. I mean at the moment we have the BARE essentials to have a functioning ship. The amount of granularity of what they could add in terms of ship designs means that it's quite likely that you will be mining pirate ships for parts instead of using them as extensions of your ships. They're already incredibly inefficient in terms of space management. Also, in terms of alpha, this is the most alpha ass alpha game I've bought into. I would go as far to say about 95% of it isn't done yet. Maybe the systems are in place but they are not by any means final. I have no reservations that combat will be the same in the next alpha as it is in alpha 1 let alone the beta or final release.

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My impression of the pirates docking was that it was basically just a placeholder for testing content and stuff. It's a cheap way to see what happens with inter-area combat.

I'd actually like to see actual ships that are flown through space by your characters and NPCs. Basically imagine those little ships that fly in new citizens being things that are piloted by characters, customized and upgraded by the player, etc.

Part of that would mean pirate ships that dock with yours and try to board you. But they won't be 'creating your base' for you by doing so - rather they create a temporary breach point that lets them get inside your ship. But to do that they need to fly to your base and attach to a suitable invasion point - meaning they'll have to get by your automated and security defenses, which might even include some security force fighter space-jets. (Which would presumably be a part of a space hanger, where you can scramble your fighter jets, or launch your miner ships, or your builder vessel, all to do longer-range jobs away from your base, etc.)

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Actually I would like to see pirate ships sort of like how the new crew ships drop crew off. Make them a object that docks instead of build rooms and after you defeat the pirates you can have your security 'take over' the ship. Then you can demolish it for matter like you do the Seed.

I really like this idea and came specifically to these forums to suggest it. It's a bit of a pain having enemy "ships" merely add-on to your base. The extra matter I get from disassembling it is nice, but the hassle of salvaging it all is awful. Especially when a glitch occurs and your crew can't demolish a door or what-have-you.

I'd love to see the types of ships be expanded. Ideally, if the devs were programming machines capable of light-speed additions, it'd be great to be able to purchase or salvage enemy ships for your own purposes. You could then use them to set up a trade network or to act as a shuttle for space-people wanting to visit your base for a drink or other amenities.

That big idea aside, I'd much more prefer for pirates to bust in through the airlock than have their "ship" attach to your base.

Also, spacesuit combat, anyone?

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I've taken to just having a bunch of builders deconstruct the docked "ships" and not bother doing any mining. There usually aren't enough technicians around to keep all the extra stuff up and running anyway. And the space station just simply grows too fast and spreads people out. In fact, it's kinda sad that you spend an hour building a base and then bam, something twice as large docks. As a rare late game event, this docking could work out. Right now, the balance isn't there yet.

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Actually I would like to see pirate ships sort of like how the new crew ships drop crew off. Make them a object that docks instead of build rooms and after you defeat the pirates you can have your security 'take over' the ship. Then you can demolish it for matter like you do the Seed.

I'm another one for this idea too. Leave the base building stuff for the player to build. There's just too much problems with derelicts as they are now. I also would like to see pirates actually latch ships on to your airlock and try to force entry with the 'object' ships.

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I must admit, when a pirate ship docks, I get an "oh no" moment, not from the boarding party that follows, but from the cleanup that I know I will have to do afterwards. As a bit of a perfectionist, they really do mess with your base design. That being said, I would reserve judgement on the event until the other bugs are ironed out. If security AI / pathing, indestructable objects, and a few other minor glitches that affect the demolition of the pirate ship are fixed, it would take the groan out of these events, making them fun as intended.

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I agree with this and just posted something similar in a thread about derelicts doing the same as I've had these attache to my base making it twice as big instantly.

The pirates should arrive on small ships like the ones that you see flying about, then you could break that down for resources or even use it to fly off and find stuff.

Other space stations should be taken out, it makes no sense that your base is the shame as a pirate ship or derelict.

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I believe many of the derelicts are in fact derelict space stations from prior colonization attempts just like yours, so it makes sense that some of them are just like your own spacebase. That said, there should definitely be derelicts and pirates that are properly alien.

What we're seeing now is just the most efficient use of the content and systems they have in place now, I would hope the final goal is much more elegant and interesting than having bits of starbase snapped onto or spawn near the player's base.

I hope the engine is capable of having separate grids for separate vessels as Bartosh suggested, as that would really open things up. It wouldn't just mean invaders and asteroids could smoothly love through space, but it follows that if that's possible it would also be possible for the spacebase itself to move. There's some obvious room for terrible bugs, overlapping errors, but overcoming all those things is entirely conceivable if the engine allows it and I think, quite worth it for the many, many possibilities it would present.

Hopefully they haven't really painted themselves in a corner with how the graphics work in the current alpha. It's hard to imagine mobile structures working when right now walls and objects are so picky about orientation, and graphics for many things simply don't exist for all angles. If they planned for it from the start, great, but if not, it would be a lot of extra work to make structures and objects that exist in the game already be able to turn / rotate together without becoming a jumbled disjointed mess.

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I notice that if I pause the game and then lock the door they suddenly made in my hull they tend to blast a hole in the wall while trying to destroy it and then get sucked out into space. :\

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We should be able to construct explosives both for destroying enemy ships quickly and creating overly-elaborate self-destruct mechanisms!

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Personally I think it's fine and kinda cool just getting these random ships just coming up and becoming a part of you.

But I do agree it needs some work.

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