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dangeROSS

What are you playing?

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Wind Waker is my favorite Zelda. DGAF that Anemone was inb4, I loved that game to bits.

The boat stuff really is garbage though.

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I bought the Gamecube version of TP first. I remember the controversy about that. Initially they said they would be released side by side (like the Switch and Wii U versions of BOTW are claiming to be....which is why I can't believe that), but they ended up selling the Wii version first to sell the console then released the Gamecube version a month or two later. I didn't have a Wii so I got the Gamecube version. Love the classic control scheme, however it's not in widescreen which hurts it a little. But I did play through and beat the entire game on Gamecube before I touched the Wii version. After I got a Wii I played through it almost to the end but I don't think I ever finished it. Still in Hyrule Castle I believe. I love how they mirrored the entire game map and everything that was going on from the Gamecube version to the Wii version because traditionally Link is a lefty in swordplay and most people are righties and the Wii remote is held in your right hand. So it wasn't enough that they switched the sword and shield between hands, they had to mirror the entire game map for some reason. Everything is in reverse. I'm not sure how many people still know this. Makes for interesting replayability between versions.

Of course, the Wii U HD remake of TP I'm assuming allows classic controller play which is awesome. Really want to get a Wii U and that version as it's my favourite Zelda game.

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So because of this thread, I decided to give Ocarina of Time another shot. So, I left off halfway through the Fire Temple about a year and a half ago, and remember nothing. 

First thing, I start off at the beginning and get murdered by bats because I'm so used to Eternal Darkness fighting where A is attack. Here it's "put the sword away". I decide to ignore the bats because I have no idea to fight them, go into a room I already explored, die a lot trying to get to an area that is empty, and then leave. Race through the main room, fall in a pit and can't get out, dead again. I finally remember I had this shortcut to level 3, which I take only to immediately jump off a high ledge, negating all my progress there. 

My only regret was I wasn't recording this, because I think my trials and tribulations would be hilarious.

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5 hours ago, Alcoremortis said:

So because of this thread, I decided to give Ocarina of Time another shot. So, I left off halfway through the Fire Temple about a year and a half ago, and remember nothing. 

First thing, I start off at the beginning and get murdered by bats because I'm so used to Eternal Darkness fighting where A is attack. Here it's "put the sword away". I decide to ignore the bats because I have no idea to fight them, go into a room I already explored, die a lot trying to get to an area that is empty, and then leave. Race through the main room, fall in a pit and can't get out, dead again. I finally remember I had this shortcut to level 3, which I take only to immediately jump off a high ledge, negating all my progress there. 

My only regret was I wasn't recording this, because I think my trials and tribulations would be hilarious.

Hold on! I'll put on the soundtrack!

 

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Oh, it got way better when I had to get the hammer. Bear in mind that I cannot normally walk in a straight line in this game. (so much falling down a pit)

However, I did manage to beat the Fire Temple last night, by using a cheap trick on the boss. I am no longer above any cheap trick that will help me win.

Edited by Alcoremortis

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Wrapping up the last chapter of DQ Builders. Chapter 3 started great but got really meh toward the end. UNTIL I BUILT A CAR. That was pretty rad. Final chapter off to a pretty good start.

Gonna give LET IT DIE another try, now that I know a few things I wasn't aware of before. Let's see if it makes me less angrified.

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Okay, I took LET IT DIE for another spin and got further into, and I actually like how death is handled. I probably won't keep playing it, though, because the further I get into the game the more it reveals how much it's built upon asynchronous PvP griefing and I'm just not interesting in a game about players griefing each other.

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Got a little bit further into VA-11 HAll-A. It's interesting that the game occasionally, instead of just giving you a straight order, will have the customer say something like, "Give me the usual" or "give me something that'll wake me up" so you might have to remember what they ordered previously or you might have to estimate what kind of drink they would like based on the vibe you're getting from their personality or something like that. I'm curious to see what the trajectory of that will be.

The writing and characters are pretty decent on the whole, but I think I've pinned down the two habits of the author that bug me:

1. Jill (the protagonist) will often go into asides, where she thinks inside of her own head in the middle of a conversation. These sometimes go on for several boxes, which is weird since there is a customer just silently staring at you the whole time. But that doesn't bother me near as much as the fact that Jill's asides often sound a little bit preachy. Like a book that is not content to let you contemplate it and arrive at your own understanding of its meaning but must dictate its own prescribed meaning to you.

2. I'm sure there is a technical term for this that I don't know, but the characters will often do that thing where they pretend to be talking to each other but they are actually talking directly to the audience. I mean, all writing is doing in that IN A SENSE, but it becomes bad when the author is so concerned with conveying certain exposition to the audience that he or she forgets or ignores that these are supposed to be real people behaving in a way that people really would. It's like if two characters in Harry Potter had this conversation:

A: "They say that he might have returned. You know... the dark lord."

B: "Oh, the dark lord. That's what people call Voldemort, right? Yeah, I remember hearing about how he recruited an army of death eaters--that's what he called his followers--and how they aimed to rid the world of muggles. It was pretty evil if you ask me."

You know what I mean? Obviously this information is shit character A already knows, so B isn't talking to A. B is talking to me, and I can tell. It's the fact that I can tell that's the problem.

On the other hand, some of the characters really have very strong, pronounced personalities, which I like. So far Donovan is the most striking character, which isn't to say that I like him as a person, because he's obviously a piece of garbage, but he is conveyed well. I especially like how comic book villain he is. He has a very J. Jonah Jameson quality to him that is detestable and sociopathic, yet entertaining.

Dana Zana, aka "Boss", also seems like one of the more interesting characters, but she hasn't had a lot of screen time so far. Looking forward to finding out more about what's going on there.

Edited by Anemone

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On 1/12/2017 at 8:08 PM, MusicallyInspired said:

The Gamecube was definitely a huge lull in Nintendo's history. Not much going for it at all. Zelda Wind Waker is good. As was the Metroid Prime series and Smash Bros Melee of course. I'm having trouble even remembering anything else of note.

The N64 and the GameCube were both lulls in NIntendo's history. Neither had good 3rd party support. Yes, there are amazing games for both, but they're almost all first party titles.

My backloggery says the good GameCube games I own are:

Beyond Good and Evil
The Legend of Zelda: Collector's Edition  (which has  NES's Zelda 1 and Zelda 2, and N64's OOT and Majora's Mask
Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker
Lego Star Wars II: The Original Trilogy
The Lord of the Rings: The Third Age
Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes
Metroid Prime
Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Soul Calibur 2
StarFox Assault
Star Wars Rogue Squadron II: Rogue Leader
Super Smash Bros. Melee
Tales of Symphonia

Super Mario Sunshine is good, but I don't own it; and I have Enter The Matrix, which is good, but the story suffers if you're not following the movies.

Edited by Chyron

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Nintendo's ship sprung a leak with the release of the N64. Many other developers, including Square (who were still just Square at the time), told Nintendo that their console using cartridges was not cutting it and if they didn't switch from carts to discs that they could not release their new games on Nintendo's console. Final Fantasy 7 was supposed to be a Nintendo game, and they thought it was going to be a Nintendo game through half of its development. But Nintendo refused to abandon carts, so Square left Nintendo and released for the PS1, which was a ballsy move at the time because the Playstation was still kinda this weird unknown quantity that nobody knew what to expect from. Combine Sony's willingness to switch to CDs, to offer more powerful hardware, and their aggressively undercutting Nintendo with developer freedom (more mature titles etc) and asking very, very low licensing fees, and Sony was basically saying to Nintendo:

 

This was a huge punch in the dick to Nintendo--especially since it persuaded other developers to follow suit, which pissed off Nintendo and soured their relationship with Square for many years. (The rumor is that they told Square if they leave, don't ever come back.)

Nintendo releasing that "jumper pack" thing on the N64 was their feeble attempt to beef up the N64 to compete with Sony better, but it didn't work.

Nintendo had tremendous, unrivaled third party support during the SNES era, but Sony entering the market kicked their ass hard on the N64. The Gamecube was actually a pretty great system, but then they were competing with the PS2 which was a BEAST (and had sucked up all the marketing clout).

They've never been able to recover from how hard they got punched in the balls back then. Their hubris and stubbornness has never helped them, nor has it helped them that they are control freaks (to both developers AND their fan community), and for all of their reputation and advertising themselves as fun and progressive innovators, they are an extremely conservative business and are very very slow to learn. Like for example the lesson that fans f***ing hate it when Nintendo tries to milk them dry via dozens of accessories and add-ons, but Nintendo always piles them on anyway. And that fans are wise to and sick of their artificial scarcity strategy, which they always deny they are doing, and yet it always happens. Among other things.

Hell, even look at their marketing. The current trend in marketing is authenticity, but Reggie is still this super fake PR actor guy. Nintendo are very entertaining, but people trust Reggie about as much as they trust a politician.

Edited by Anemone

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And the reason why the PlayStation exists at all was because of Nintendo. Nintendo tried pairing with another company to make a disc-based console or console add-on--first with Philips and then with Sony. When Nintendo pulled out of both deals, Philips and Sony released the CD-i and the PlayStation respectively. Sony's genius was in marketing their console to a different market demographic than Nintendo.

One of the GameCube's major problems was trying to market a console primarily designed aesthetically for Japan, to Americans. The XBox, which was a competitor to the GameCube, sold poorly in Japan because of how enormous the console was. The GameCube, meanwhile, was designed to be compact and portable--even so far as to have a handle on it--which Americans don't care at all about. ...Actually, If you look at all of Nintendo's post-N64 consoles, they're all tiny. So Nintendo can't compete with Sony or Microsoft because having a small physical footprint is apparently a huge factor for them.

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1 minute ago, Chyron said:

And the reason why the PlayStation exists at all was because of Nintendo. Nintendo tried pairing with another company to make a disc-based console or console add-on--first with Philips and then with Sony. When Nintendo pulled out of both deals, Philips and Sony released the CD-i and the PlayStation respectively. Sony's genius was in marketing their console to a different market demographic than Nintendo.

One of the GameCube's major problems was trying to market a console primarily designed aesthetically for Japan, to Americans. The XBox, which was a competitor to the GameCube, sold poorly in Japan because of how enormous the console was. The GameCube, meanwhile, was designed to be compact and portable--even so far as to have a handle on it--which Americans don't care at all about. ...Actually, If you look at all of Nintendo's post-N64 consoles, they're all tiny. So Nintendo can't compete with Sony or Microsoft because having a small physical footprint is apparently a huge factor for them.

That's true about Nintendo backing out of the disc deal, though I think I heard it was going to be some kind of disc-reader add-on BECAUSE OF COURSE IT WAS BECAUSE NINTENDO. Nintendo kept sticking to cartridges because they thought it was better protection against piracy or something like that. There were some performance advantages to carts as well (e.g. faster loading), and Nintendo thought that was better than raw power, but they gambled wrong.

Nintendo was and has been correct that Americans want to game socially, but they have always favored couch play when Americans wanted online play. Another area where Nintendo has stubbornly refused to get with the times until the last minute.

You could be right about them skewing too Japanese. I don't criticize them for that because I miss the days when games had a much stronger Japanese character. But that's surely not true of cultural generally.

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I just don't know why we can't  have both couch and online. It seems like they favour one or the other. I rarely play online.

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I think couch co-op is best and the only truly social way to game with friends. I hate most online gaming and its features. Leaderboards in particular actually actively turn me off rather than attract me. I like meeting cool new people in online games, but it's very rare that happens. Mostly it's just children, trolls, and assholes.

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Also, in Nintendo's defense, cartridges are better. I remember being quite happy with my instantaneous gameplay while the PSX and Saturn users had to wait for their discs to load. Also, N64 may have been the start of a lull, but I can't remember such an uninteresting Nintendo era as the Gamecube era. It was literally the "meh" console game-wise to me and all my friends. The N64 still had a good number of huge hits, 3rd party support be darned.

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32 minutes ago, MusicallyInspired said:

Also, in Nintendo's defense, cartridges are better. I remember being quite happy with my instantaneous gameplay while the PSX and Saturn users had to wait for their discs to load. Also, N64 may have been the start of a lull, but I can't remember such an uninteresting Nintendo era as the Gamecube era. It was literally the "meh" console game-wise to me and all my friends. The N64 still had a good number of huge hits, 3rd party support be darned.

Carts WERE better (and still are) in certain respects. The tremendously shorter loading times is the biggest one. But the N64 staggered in other ways. They tried to run Final Fantasy 7 on it numerous times while the game was in development and the N64 just choked on it. That's why Square kept telling them to go to discs, but apparently the president of Nintendo at the time adamantly refused to leave cartridges, and that was that. One gets the hint that Nintendo expected Square to scale it down, but Square decided they'd rather break up.

The problem with the Gamecube is that it was a situation where Nintendo was learning a lesson too late. They switched to discs (albeit mini-discs), it was a more powerful system that actually was a pretty decent competitor with the PS2 on technical terms, IIRC. The problem was that all the third party support jumped ship during the N64/PS1 era, and the Playstation had such profoundly successful marketing, and eventually some really killer games, that Sony had pretty much sucked up all of Nintendo's milkshake. Nintendo was trying to win developers and customers BACK on the gamecube to a certain extent. It was a decent console from a technical standpoint, but it was the beginning of the same dilemma that would plague Nintendo for the WiiU and will probably also plague them for the Switch, which is simply this:

If there are no games, then there will be no customers. But if there are no customers, then there will be no games.

The Wii sold many units of course, but the Wii was the Gagnam Style of game consoles: "This is not success; it is only phenomenon." --Psy

Edited by Anemone

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It sounds like it would have been a better business decision and Nintendo would be in a way better position if they had switched to discs. I guess sticking to your principles even if they are born from better reasoning can be extremely detrimental. Where would Nintendo be right now if the N64 was a disc-based system with FF7 as one of its best sellers? Would Sony have been as successful? Would Nintendo be competing with Sony in stead of Microsoft? Would Microsoft have even entered the arena? What if...

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1 hour ago, MusicallyInspired said:

Where would Nintendo be right now if the N64 was a disc-based system with FF7 as one of its best sellers?

This is the interesting question for me to ponder as well.

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Even more than the deal with Sony that Nintendo had broken, I often wonder where the gaming industry would be today if Atari didn't turn down Nintendo's offer to market the Famicom in the United States.

Atari might have stuck around, and the NES era probably would have been a lot different (for one, the restrictive policies allowing only a certain amount of games per publisher per year that led to the creation of Tengen wouldn't have existed).  It makes me wonder if Sega might have cracked the market more with the SMS, if the restrictions put on retailers to sell only NES games wasn't there (although Atari had some shady practices in its heyday too - so who knows if they still would have tried something like that), or if the NES still would have been the juggernaut it was.

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IIRC, part of the success of Nintendo's strategy relied on them being extremely controlling with licensing and restrictions on their platform. (Which might explain them being reflexively controlling still today.) The Atari didn't really have much in the way of restrictions, so people made and sold their own carts, and some of them were pretty bad. There were even technically some porn games on the Atari, but... it was the Atari... so... you can imagine what that was like, lol.

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The only difference between then and now is that Nintendo had clout and now not so much. They were the big thing back in the 80s and now they're the stubborn old ones who refuse to let go of the past.

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Pretty much. I mean, you have to give them credit that their strategy at the time made a lot of sense. All of those controlling regulations resulted in them offering an extremely curated and high quality system. Compare to Steam which used to be a lot more curated but has been more open the past couple of years. There are still outstanding games on Steam, but there is also TONS of garbage. Nintendo basically said, look, we have this system that we promise only has decent to outstanding games on it, but no absolute garbage. That was pretty great and in the best interest of consumers. But fast forward to 2017 and things have sort of changed where platforms are expected to be a little more open (due to indies and such) and consumers expect to be able to do things with those Ips (e.g. Let’s Plays etc) and conservative Nintendo has until recently been very stiff and controlling with their developers (but they are no longer in a strong position to be demanding, frankly) and have constantly brought the legal hammer down on their fans for fan videos. But they’ve got their hat in their hands these days. Let’s see where it goes from here!

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17 hours ago, MusicallyInspired said:

Also, in Nintendo's defense, cartridges are better.

It depends on what you're wanting. Carts cost more to manufacture, while discs are super cheap. To this day, that is still true--even 50GB dual-layer bluray discs cost less than a 50GB SDXC card. So the overhead on carts in higher, meaning it's a higher expense to have the same number unsold, which was one of the N64's problems competing with PlayStation.

I don't remember what the chip file-storage limitations were back then, but Final Fantasy 7 was on 3 discs; FF8 and FF9 on four. You can't tell me having 2 carts is an option if 1 cart can't hold enough space. Ocarina of Time's cart was super heavy, and that game was not as long as FF7 was by a long shot.

Edited by Chyron

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Returned to Civilization 6, and really enjoying it. Just booting it up to hear a bit of the fantastic theme turned into me starting a new game with France, and spending quite a lot of time with it. 

This great article about the leader animations, on Kotaku, also inspires me to play more of it. 

http://kotaku.com/civilization-vi-has-the-most-incredible-animation-1791100996

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